From yonjuuni@earthlink.net Tue Jan 16 01:10:55 2007 Return-Path: <yonjuuni@earthlink.net> X-Sender: yonjuuni@earthlink.net X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78506 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2007 09:10:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2007 09:10:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.64) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2007 09:10:47 -0000 Received: from [69.81.24.84] (helo=NIK2) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1H6kK7-0003nP-8B for conculture@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 04:09:43 -0500 Message-ID: <004401c7394e$0d6d7ce0$6400a8c0@NIK2> To: <conculture@yahoogroups.com> References: <482978d90701130515g4800420as52fe0982dbb5e1f8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:09:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-ELNK-Trace: 1181855afad78ccb1aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79fcb870e026af522e2c99b6e5a39a96fc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Nik Taylor" <yonjuuni@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [conculture] Scripts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=124743594; y=rZBADxj_ITHdzYPnDTFKuOzfaYwq6K15ItEZT2H4VRBXIv8xPUY X-Yahoo-Profile: niktaylor42 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Augustinas Zemaitis" <augustinas.zemaitis@gmail.com> To: <conculture@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: [conculture] Scripts > 3.What script is used in southeasternmost Asia (real world Malaysia, > SIngapore, Brunei and Indonesia). Does Vietnamese still use Chinese script > (or perhaps they never did in IB)? They definitely did in the past. For them to have never used Chinese script would require massive changes to the timeline. I think they still use Chinese characters in a very limited usage, mostly only in highly formal contexts. Elsewhere they use a Roman script that is probably either the same as or very similar to *here*'s.
From Montrei13@gmail.com Tue Jan 16 04:03:28 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88879 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2007 12:00:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2007 12:00:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.186) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2007 12:00:19 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c29so2357513nfb for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.8.15 with SMTP id l15mr5686309nfi.1168947823957; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.208.6 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:43:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7b9d11410701160343x1f8cd79eh7867548503c82337@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:43:43 -0800 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <482978d90701130515g4800420as52fe0982dbb5e1f8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <482978d90701130515g4800420as52fe0982dbb5e1f8@mail.gmail.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.182.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Scripts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=XGjmmnyhvqChSFfA4ZcHXWWiH3S4tuxFHupNWLoC3V9CehgK X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 13/01/07, Augustinas =8Eemaitis <augustinas.zemaitis@gmail.com> wrote: > 3.What script is used in southeasternmost Asia (real world Malaysia, SIngapore, Brunei and Indonesia). Does Vietnamese still use Chinese script (or perhaps they never did in IB)? This depends upon whatever the caretaker of Mazapahit and Xrivizaja decides. Here, at least in Indonesia, the Javanese alphabet was used as far along as the 1940's since according to Omniglot, it was banned by the Japanese. When the Dutch in OTL conquered Indonesia, the Latin alphabet began to supplant it. Currently it has use as a decorative script rather than being used by most of the populace. My guess is with the survival of Xrivizaja, and Mazapahit, the script is probably used for both nations (unless of course, Roger, who I think still handles these two nations says otherwise), with of course their Latin scripts. It's possible that the Latin script supplanted the Javanese script, but it would be nice to keep it there. Aceh would likely use Arabic, as it is the only nation in that area to have been islamicized.
From zahir@brainlink.com Tue Jan 16 07:16:19 2007 Return-Path: <zahir@brainlink.com> X-Sender: zahir@brainlink.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29788 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2007 15:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2007 15:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2007 15:13:32 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2007 15:11:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2007 15:11:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Jan 2007 15:11:25 -0000 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:11:24 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eoipus+idtv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eogveu+e3d7@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.217.89.145 From: "David" <zahir@brainlink.com> Subject: Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48429920; y=E3mZqGiGiyKZccZMRDiMZPga2x-O--r9A6HGj2InaGHi4w X-Yahoo-Profile: zahir13 Love the feedback! What I have so far (including some excellent suggestions from the list) is that Juliette Gabrielle Verne was born in Nantes, France. Her parents were a local lawyer and his wife. She was always fascinated by the sea, somewhat to her parents' scandal. In the end, she married a schooner captain from Louisianne named Ulysses Clemens. For most of a decade she travelled with him (which was not unheard of). However, when she became pregnant she settled down in New Orleans. She did indeed begin writing under the name "J.Verne," her novels were initially tales of the sea such as "La course autour du cap" (Race Around the Cape) about a fictional race between steamships from New Amsterdam to San Francisco. The great popularity of "Autour du monde en 99 jours" (Around the World in 99 Days) eventually brought her gender to public attention. The controversy seems to have simply added to her book sales, and pretty much secured her writing career. Some of her novels: "Une Année Sous les Vagues" (A Year Beneath the Waves) about the electric submarine 'Nautilus' and its mysterious inventor Captain Nemo. This novel has been adapted for television and films several times. "À l'Ouest du Mississippi" (West of the Mississippi) about a pair of government agents from Lousianne and the NAL who team up to stop the plans of a brilliant but cruel military inventor named Dr. August Loney (this book was prophetic in its description of the equivalent of tanks, machine guns and gas warfare). "L'île brumeuse" (The Misty Island) about a shipwrecked man who finds his way to a deserted island full of puzzles and traps, who slowly pieces together from clues the history of two brothers (Louis and Dagobert) who laid waste to the island via their feuding. This work, considered by many literary critics to be her best, is sometimes seen as a seminal work in the growth of what became Ecotopism. "Ligue des Étrangers" (League of Strangers) was her last novel and in some ways the most controversial, laying her open to charges of plagerism. Four persons, each using an alias (but strongly resembling heroes of other popular works of the day, such as Inspector Watson) are secretly hired by the Kemrese government to retrieve the plans for an armored airship. The novel itself was a sensation and is sometimes credited for increasing public awareness of how devastating modern warfare might become, especially the climax with duelling airships wrecking havoc over Castreleon. In many ways Verne is considered the inspiration (or at least predecessor) of such authors as Itzak Azimov and Seoirse Fferreir as well as Eugenio Roddenberry and Honoré Philippe Louvain. *** Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Zahir
From jeffwilson63@frii.com Tue Jan 16 08:19:37 2007 Return-Path: <jeffwilson63@frii.com> X-Sender: jeffwilson63@frii.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66377 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2007 16:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Jan 2007 16:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.frii.com) (216.17.128.161) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 2007 16:14:16 -0000 Received: from [4.225.215.73] (dialup-4.225.215.73.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.225.215.73]) by mail.frii.com (FRII) with ESMTP id 77862AE99B for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:13:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <45ACF9C4.9070708@frii.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:13:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com References: <eoipus+idtv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eoipus+idtv@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 216.17.128.161 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@frii.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193537240; y=nvQo1paEDwFQReiYsmHN_pVCnHjCT3PsQF-rI0AUEZKxZC4LHAv-Hg X-Yahoo-Profile: jeff_wilson63 David wrote: > Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Rather than saying, "Some of her novels:" how about "Her most popularized novels include:" Jefferson http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
From augustinas.zemaitis@gmail.com Wed Jan 17 08:07:42 2007 Return-Path: <augustinas.zemaitis@gmail.com> X-Sender: augustinas.zemaitis@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49334 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2007 16:03:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2007 16:03:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nz-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.162.235) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2007 16:03:01 -0000 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i1so520507nzh for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.96.7 with SMTP id y7mr12864695pyl.1169049780530; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.38.11 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:03:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <482978d90701170803g170c7162y8de875db1acd50b6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:03:00 +0200 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_40988_22404314.1169049780428" X-Originating-IP: 64.233.162.235 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "=?ISO-8859-13?Q?Augustinas_=DEemaitis?=" <augustinas.zemaitis@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Scripts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=281538100 ------=_Part_40988_22404314.1169049780428 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Regarding Madagascar, Malagasy could be written in Chinese script, similarly to (formerly) Vietnamese (as Madagascar was influenced by Chinese). But perhaps it would be written in a similar manner to Korean (in South Korea) or Japanese, where Latin alphabet would be used as hiragana/katagana/hangul in those countries, and Chinese characters would be used as Hanja/Kanji. This however depends on the Chinese view towards this script at the time of colonization - by the time the coastal areas of Madagascar were and still probably are largely muslim due to the influence of traders and so probably would have used Arabic script; so the Chinese might have just have introduced this script for communities away from coast as well.
Srivijaya and Mazapahit would then probably still use the Javanese script indeed, as they were never colonised.
With less influence of Latin script *there* than *here* and the fact that it was never colonized it seems (and payed tribute only to China), I doubt Nam Viet would have ever latinised; probably it would still use the Chinese alphabet.
Aceh indeed could use Arabic (or Latin script if the Batavians would have forced latinization, but that is doubtful).
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From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 08:26:24 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40309 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2007 16:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m40a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2007 16:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.104) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2007 16:26:23 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2007 16:20:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2007 16:20:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2007 16:20:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:20:48 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eolid0+a8m5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eoipus+idtv@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 198.111.161.114 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=af-TkpcNuw-a_xg6J3YzDf7KS0n4r9-DW8HcRr0mePR6i30I_Pcd X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@...> wrote: >Love the feedback! >What I have so far (including some excellent suggestions from the >list) is that Juliette Gabrielle Verne was born in Nantes, France. >Her parents were a local lawyer and his wife. She was always >fascinated by the sea, somewhat to her parents' scandal. In the end, >she married a schooner captain from Louisianne named Ulysses Clemens. *Related* to *here*'s Samuel Langhorne Clemens? >For most of a decade she travelled with him (which was not unheard >of). However, when she became pregnant she settled down in New >Orleans. >She did indeed begin writing under the name "J.Verne," her novels >were initially tales of the sea such as "La course autour du cap" >(Race Around the Cape) about a fictional race between steamships >from New Amsterdam to San Francisco. The great popularity of "Autour >du monde en 99 jours" (Around the World in 99 Days) Now, that is a familiar-sounding title. >eventually brought her gender to public attention. The controversy >seems to have simply added to her book sales, and pretty much >secured her writing career. I really, really like it! >Some of her novels: >"Une Année Sous les Vagues" (A Year Beneath the Waves) about the >electric submarine 'Nautilus' and its mysterious inventor Captain >Nemo. This novel has been adapted for television and films several >times. alt."20,000 Li Under the Sea". >"À l'Ouest du Mississippi" (West of the Mississippi) about a pair of >government agents from Lousianne and the NAL who team up to stop the >plans of a brilliant but cruel military inventor named Dr. August >Loney (this book was prophetic in its description of the equivalent >of tanks, machine guns and gas warfare). Sounds like alt."The Wild Wild West". Is it? >"L'île brumeuse" (The Misty Island) about a shipwrecked man who finds >his way to a deserted island full of puzzles and traps, who slowly >pieces together from clues the history of two brothers (Louis and >Dagobert) who laid waste to the island via their feuding. alt."Myst"?! >This work, considered by many literary critics to be her best, is >sometimes seenas a seminal work in the growth of what became >Ecotopism. > >"Ligue des Étrangers" (League of Strangers) was her last novel and in >some ways the most controversial, laying her open to charges of >plag[a]rism. >Four persons, each using an alias (but strongly resembling heroes of >other popular works of the day, such as Inspector Watson) are >secretly hired by the Kemrese government to retrieve the plans for >an armored airship. The novel itself was a sensation and is >sometimes credited for increasing public awareness of how >devastating modern warfare might become, especially the climax with >duelling airships wrecking havoc over Castreleon. Not sure. Peut-etre alt."the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"? If she really alt.authored alt."Wild Wild West", alt."Myst", and alt."League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", I am a fan of hers! >In many ways Verne is considered the inspiration (or at least >predecessor) of such authors as >Itzak Azimov Obviously alt."Isaac Asimov" >and Seoirse Fferreir I cannot decode this. >as well as Eugenio Roddenberry Clearly alt.the creator of "Star Trek" >and Honoré Philippe Louvain. Another one I cannot decode. The literary precursors of S.F. *here* are considered to be Edgar Allen Poe and Mary Shelley. Verne was a founding member rather than a precursor. >Questions? Comments? See above. >Suggestions? No additional ones at the moment. >Zahir Thanks!
From jeffwilson63@frii.com Wed Jan 17 09:46:36 2007 Return-Path: <jeffwilson63@frii.com> X-Sender: jeffwilson63@frii.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35141 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2007 17:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2007 17:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.frii.com) (216.17.128.162) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2007 17:46:36 -0000 Received: from [4.228.21.80] (dialup-4.228.21.80.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.228.21.80]) by mail.frii.com (FRII) with ESMTP id 40C2AA44A0 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:45:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <45AE60AB.5090402@frii.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 10:45:15 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com References: <eolid0+a8m5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eolid0+a8m5@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 216.17.128.162 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@frii.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193537240; y=RUiP3z-ejwuE4CVZeH5IbD939F_leyGpNhMBgZ5hinYkt0s1NFKU5g X-Yahoo-Profile: jeff_wilson63 tomhchappell wrote: > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@...> wrote: > >>"Une Année Sous les Vagues" (A Year Beneath the Waves) about the >>electric submarine 'Nautilus' and its mysterious inventor Captain >>Nemo. This novel has been adapted for television and films several >>times. > > alt."20,000 Li Under the Sea". > >>"À l'Ouest du Mississippi" (West of the Mississippi) about a pair of >>government agents from Lousianne and the NAL who team up to stop the >>plans of a brilliant but cruel military inventor named Dr. August >>Loney (this book was prophetic in its description of the equivalent >>of tanks, machine guns and gas warfare). > > Sounds like alt."The Wild Wild West". Is it? I thought at first it was an alt. "The Purchase of the North Pole" (Sans dessus dessous). On second thought it's more likely an alt. "Robur the Conquerer" (Robur-le-Conquérant), which I haven't read. >>"L'île brumeuse" (The Misty Island) about a shipwrecked man who finds >>his way to a deserted island full of puzzles and traps, who slowly >>pieces together from clues the history of two brothers (Louis and >>Dagobert) who laid waste to the island via their feuding. > > alt."Myst"?! The Mysterious Island (L’île mysterieuse). >>This work, considered by many literary critics to be her best, is >>sometimes seenas a seminal work in the growth of what became >>Ecotopism. >> >>"Ligue des Étrangers" (League of Strangers) was her last novel and in >>some ways the most controversial, laying her open to charges of >>plag[a]rism. >> >>Four persons, each using an alias (but strongly resembling heroes of >>other popular works of the day, such as Inspector Watson) are >>secretly hired by the Kemrese government to retrieve the plans for >>an armored airship. The novel itself was a sensation and is >>sometimes credited for increasing public awareness of how >>devastating modern warfare might become, especially the climax with >>duelling airships wrecking havoc over Castreleon. > > Not sure. Peut-etre alt."the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"? Don't know either. This one doesn't seem to be based on our Verne at all. It might be an alt. "The Chase of the Golden Meteor" (La Chasse au météore), but Verne had two books published after than one, and it doesn't match my memories of the book at all. (Not that the last point means all that much with the lousy nature of Verne's English translations.) Possibly "last popular work" instead of "last work?" -- Jefferson http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
From zahir@brainlink.com Wed Jan 17 12:12:45 2007 Return-Path: <zahir@brainlink.com> X-Sender: zahir@brainlink.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70321 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2007 20:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2007 20:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2007 20:08:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2007 20:08:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2007 20:08:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:08:23 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eolvnn+7512@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eolid0+a8m5@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.217.89.78 From: "David" <zahir@brainlink.com> Subject: Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48429920; y=8kNQ8NdrwTPLhX6xw50OtZVyg0Tb9Wc_YCw7pJfJ1OFEnw X-Yahoo-Profile: zahir13 Comments and answers below... --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@> wrote: > >Love the feedback! > >What I have so far (including some excellent suggestions from the > >list) is that Juliette Gabrielle Verne was born in Nantes, France. > >Her parents were a local lawyer and his wife. She was always > >fascinated by the sea, somewhat to her parents' scandal. In the end, > >she married a schooner captain from Louisianne named Ulysses Clemens. > > *Related* to *here*'s Samuel Langhorne Clemens? > I was thinking a brother. <SNIPPED FOR SPACE> > > >Some of her novels: > >"Une Année Sous les Vagues" (A Year Beneath the Waves) about the > >electric submarine 'Nautilus' and its mysterious inventor Captain > >Nemo. This novel has been adapted for television and films several > >times. > > alt."20,000 Li Under the Sea". Yep. > >"À l'Ouest du Mississippi" (West of the Mississippi) about a pair of > >government agents from Lousianne and the NAL who team up to stop the > >plans of a brilliant but cruel military inventor named Dr. August > >Loney (this book was prophetic in its description of the equivalent > >of tanks, machine guns and gas warfare). > > Sounds like alt."The Wild Wild West". Is it? Keerect-amudo! > >"L'île brumeuse" (The Misty Island) about a shipwrecked man who finds > >his way to a deserted island full of puzzles and traps, who slowly > >pieces together from clues the history of two brothers (Louis and > >Dagobert) who laid waste to the island via their feuding. > > alt."Myst"?! Again, right! > >This work, considered by many literary critics to be her best, is > >sometimes seenas a seminal work in the growth of what became > >Ecotopism. > > > >"Ligue des Étrangers" (League of Strangers) was her last novel and in > >some ways the most controversial, laying her open to charges of > > >plag[a]rism. > > >Four persons, each using an alias (but strongly resembling heroes of > >other popular works of the day, such as Inspector Watson) are > >secretly hired by the Kemrese government to retrieve the plans for > >an armored airship. The novel itself was a sensation and is > >sometimes credited for increasing public awareness of how > >devastating modern warfare might become, especially the climax with > >duelling airships wrecking havoc over Castreleon. > > Not sure. Peut-etre alt."the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"? Exactly right. <SNIP> > >and Seoirse Fferreir > > I cannot decode this. He is the Kemrese author of the famous dystopian novel "1994" > >as well as Eugenio Roddenberry > > Clearly alt.the creator of "Star Trek" Although in IB that is known as "Space Voyage 2245" > >and Honoré Philippe Louvain. > > Another one I cannot decode. H.P.Louvain was a Louisianne author who created "Jacques Cartier de Mars" Keep in mind that IB is not a one-for-one substitution for *our* world. Thus Juliette Verne would not write the same novels as her male counterpart. Zahir
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 17 12:40:00 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26119 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2007 20:38:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2007 20:38:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.64) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2007 20:38:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 90341 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jan 2007 20:37:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20070117203742.90336.qmail@web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: yOB4cBAVM1nJJTdgSRu5lQyZiD3DiZozN_Jo2D67t06wv.k5j7rz7.VDUmS8XpnK1eIPG2p4xDGoSGlIH.12hsfst8B3vWOYU2dKvP_ldZ8ZN7c2GyTHHfRwfUZqsYEDqdW4C6mv Received: from [68.88.136.53] by web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:37:42 GMT Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 20:37:42 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <7b9d11410701120550n18f00e5fg8e8c7a1075cbffd5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Extinct animals here but perhaps not there X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=Ge5TszbBK5Y0zIT1ndOll3YqUOA7CtWUxMPuzNEHTJ-KW8OJSeWs4w X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood Hmm... Must work on this some for Li Alam. For a start, I can say that several of the large Cetacea are extinct *there - Northern Right Whale, North Pacific Right Whale and Bowhead Whale for certain, and probably the Southern Right and Grey Whales as well. OTOH, the Passenger Pigeon thrives, and Bison and Condors are a lot more numerous. As for others, I must have a think... On a related note, what about introductions? For example, was the Carolina Grey Squirrel introduced to Europe? What about rabbits, foxes, dromedary camels and cane toads in Australia? What about other animals? Were there different introductions than *here? One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 16:05:12 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62553 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2007 00:05:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2007 00:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52003.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.86) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2007 00:05:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 39635 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jan 2007 00:04:05 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Nkd1F2cVM1m2ApriIb17mO14Biwkhjw5vkk4XsZbNhmL97ZF95Pa_gxQDex_BZoxSisjuGtppHUtI9rqaPTlU0csuW5P3XohP6tMoCyajeJBpMHp_SG7Rxb6fpU6VtVVNSFcWNGsUD9NPwAYKP6hr6qfmkl8yNC02kNTKFH0efIl7B.dypVE Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:04:04 PST Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 16:04:04 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <482978d90701170803g170c7162y8de875db1acd50b6@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <123000.39204.qm@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.86 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Scripts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=Uvi9BE0BNQEMfdSHLWE3aWBTCT4swmodOYYXeEmOoSGEMWbv X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Augustinas Þemaitis <augustinas.zemaitis@gmail.com> wrote: > Regarding Madagascar, Malagasy could be written > in Chinese script, similarly > to (formerly) Vietnamese (as Madagascar was > influenced by Chinese). And it probably would have been before realigning itself with the Commonwealth. Most folks are probably familiar with Mandarin as a common trade language. The native language is making a comeback, and English is rapidly becomming very important for external communications. > But > perhaps it would be written in a similar manner > to Korean (in South Korea) > or Japanese, where Latin alphabet would be used > as hiragana/katagana/hangul > in those countries, and Chinese characters > would be used as Hanja/Kanji. > This however depends on the Chinese view > towards this script at the time of > colonization Well, when the Chinese first set their colonies in Madagascar, there was no English presence for them to have a view of. English influence comes in the aftermath of the 1947 Oriental War, where China was defeated and lost its overseas possessions, several of them to Commonwealth control. > - by the time the coastal areas of > Madagascar were and still > probably are largely muslim due to the > influence of traders and so probably > would have used Arabic script; so the Chinese > might have just have > introduced this script for communities away > from coast as well. Most Madagascratians are Buddhists. This is not to say there were never any Moslems there; I'm sure the influence of Christianity (in the form of a powerful Ethiopia) might also be felt. Padraic. Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Wed Jan 17 17:02:42 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70955 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2007 01:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2007 01:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2007 01:02:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 01:02:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 01:02:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 01:02:32 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eomgv8+nkqs@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosmic News: Jan. 22-28 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=RFFXSQ4lBx73ekOVAxAtP2ZN9C4ny5scIsuv5dh0b1ZCzJjqkg X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 22 (FIU) LAOJINSHAN CITY, Central Zone of Jinguo - Archbishop Kong resigned in disgrace today, although he protested his innocence up to the last moment. On January 13, Concubine Dai tearfully revealed the photographs that showed the archbishop performing perversities on her uterine brother. Despite this evidence, Dai insisted that Kong not be killed, in order to better contemplate and make penance for his crimes. The leadership of the rump state of Jinguo has passed to Assemblyman Xian. 23 ROME, The Papal States - Rumors abound that Damasus III has been suffering from insomnia and not even the doctors whom he brought from Portugal have failed. 24 (FIU) GREAT ANDAMAN, Andaman Islands, Kingdom of Burma - Myint-San lay next to Bohmu-Aung in a fond embrace. "Your friend Kwan-Kywu doesn't like me," Myint-San said. "He thinks I'm evil. How will our country ever be united?" "Myanmar and Burma are fighting together now." "Two states, in uneasy alliance. Once we drive back the Indians, what shall we do?" "I'll think of something, my dear Myint-San." 25 (Xanadu-Mariner World) "Now, children," said Ayah Sewell, "I'm going to ask you a question . And don't worry if you get the answer wrong. Even mommies and daddies get confused about it. Who did Our Lord defeat in His Harrowing of Hell?" A boy, dressed in the slightly old-fashioned sailor suit, raised his hand. "I know, I know, I know,: he said, while bouncing up and down vigorously. "Jesus defeated Wife-in-Def." "No," corrected Sewell, "But don't cry. Lots of people get all mixed up about this. Jesus defeated Death-in-Life, and saved Life-in-Death." [1] Ayah: allegedly from the Hebrew Hayah, `to live' 26 (Detective World) Time: late 1930's Place: Arizona Another car pulled up in the lot, kicking up the red dust that sticks despite vigorous scrubbing. Two boys, one fair-haired, the other dark-haired, emerged. "It was generous of Dad to let us drive here from Bayton," said Hank Faraday. "I just hope we're not too late," replied his brother Joel, "The evidence against this `Zuni John' is not as strong as that girl detective believed." (FIU) VILHA DA PEDRU, Empire of Bragantina - Primeiro João Duarte has confirmed his intent to seek a second term. 28 (SHEOL) Carrie presented the man who fell from the sky before the Lord of Castle Lethnetos. The lord had the body of a mere child, but his eyes bore the mark of measureless age and the witnessing of infinite atrocities. His garments seemed to be made of skin, but already the sky-man's horror at such a sight had begun to abate. The cloak, the indicator of his office, was festooned with blinking eyes and moving lips. "I see Carrie has brought home another stray," he said, "Know this, stranger, should I deem you worthy to live. I am the lord of this place, and from me there is no escape. If you betray me or fall short of usefulness, you will be necrosected and used for defensive repairs of the castle. In the land of the dead, all tha is left is power, and that power must be guard eternally. What have you to say for yourself?"
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Wed Jan 17 20:08:13 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58407 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2007 04:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2007 04:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.109) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2007 04:06:03 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 04:05:33 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 04:05:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 04:05:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 04:05:32 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eomrmc+ponm@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070117203742.90336.qmail@web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: IB: Extinct animals here but perhaps not there X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=o1beL0JC100M_kFTSNmrnOCTMFxD9Y5aHoWMBiOLua9t7eJOaQ X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 In FIU also, cetaceans have not fared well, thanks to larger Nordic and Sino-Japanese spheres. There are dromedaries in al-Janubiyya (Australia), but no rabbits. I don't know about foxes and cane toads. The western coast of al-Janubiyya was colonized partially from Madagascar, but the nature of their arrival precluded introduction of new species. "California" Condors are extinct in Jinguo. In Homo Habilior World, california condors are extinct (my belief is that California condors were on the way out before civilization arrived in North America), and the American megafauna is not quite as common as one might expect, since habitat change would have wreaked some havok. --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > Hmm... Must work on this some for Li Alam. > > For a start, I can say that several of the large > Cetacea are extinct *there - Northern Right Whale, > North Pacific Right Whale and Bowhead Whale for > certain, and probably the Southern Right and Grey > Whales as well. > > OTOH, the Passenger Pigeon thrives, and Bison and > Condors are a lot more numerous. As for others, I > must have a think... > > On a related note, what about introductions? For > example, was the Carolina Grey Squirrel introduced to > Europe? What about rabbits, foxes, dromedary camels > and cane toads in Australia? What about other > animals? > Were there different introductions than *here? > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. > http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evtD106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk >
From general_tiu@yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 06:16:31 2007 Return-Path: <general_tiu@yahoo.com> X-Sender: general_tiu@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69128 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2007 14:12:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2007 14:12:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.56) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2007 14:12:18 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 14:12:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 14:12:04 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:12:02 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eonv7i+uc8d@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <482978d90701170803g170c7162y8de875db1acd50b6@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 125.60.243.48 From: "kim tiu" <general_tiu@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Scripts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=79888936; y=X1Dd2_QTrJ79ZQMd3KZnhXwLei4L6vKx0gb7LHQafjQt4b9UClY X-Yahoo-Profile: general_tiu --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Augustinas Þemaitis" <augustinas.zemaitis@...> wrote: > > Regarding Madagascar, Malagasy could be written in Chinese script, similarly > to (formerly) Vietnamese (as Madagascar was influenced by Chinese). But > perhaps it would be written in a similar manner to Korean (in South Korea) > or Japanese, where Latin alphabet would be used as hiragana/katagana/hangul > in those countries, and Chinese characters would be used as Hanja/Kanji. > This however depends on the Chinese view towards this script at the time of > colonization - by the time the coastal areas of Madagascar were and still > probably are largely muslim due to the influence of traders and so probably > would have used Arabic script; so the Chinese might have just have > introduced this script for communities away from coast as well. > > Srivijaya and Mazapahit would then probably still use the Javanese script > indeed, as they were never colonised. > > With less influence of Latin script *there* than *here* and the fact that it > was never colonized it seems (and payed tribute only to China), I doubt Nam > Viet would have ever latinised; probably it would still use the Chinese > alphabet. Will Nam Viet invent a 'native' script influenced by Chinese and the the Tai? > > Aceh indeed could use Arabic (or Latin script if the Batavians would have > forced latinization, but that is doubtful). >
From zahir@brainlink.com Thu Jan 18 08:40:49 2007 Return-Path: <zahir@brainlink.com> X-Sender: zahir@brainlink.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63907 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2007 16:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2007 16:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.184) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2007 16:39:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 16:37:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 16:37:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jan 2007 16:37:00 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 16:36:59 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eoo7nb+kqk6@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eolvnn+7512@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.184 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.217.87.101 From: "David" <zahir@brainlink.com> Subject: Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48429920; y=ymLmQ7nAjBn3V7ImpC9-S1CezOpme1FJtDakaLYIONZ03Q X-Yahoo-Profile: zahir13 Some other thoughts that came to mind. As imagined here, Juliette Clemens (nee Verne) is a forward-thinking person living in the largest city of a frontier nation going through major political change. She's a resident of New Orleans, Louisianne presumably from about 1865 to circa 1905. One wonders what politics she might have become involved with? How, for example, might she have viewed the Mormons? Would she have written about various First Presidents of the Republic? Or other contemporaneous issues? Gotta think for a bit. But am very, very interested in anyone's ideas. Zahir --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@...> wrote: > > Comments and answers below... > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@> > wrote: > > > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@> wrote: > > >Love the feedback! > > >What I have so far (including some excellent suggestions from the > > >list) is that Juliette Gabrielle Verne was born in Nantes, France. > > >Her parents were a local lawyer and his wife. She was always > > >fascinated by the sea, somewhat to her parents' scandal. In the end, > > >she married a schooner captain from Louisianne named Ulysses Clemens. > > > > *Related* to *here*'s Samuel Langhorne Clemens? > > > > I was thinking a brother. > > <SNIPPED FOR SPACE> > > > > >Some of her novels: > > >"Une Année Sous les Vagues" (A Year Beneath the Waves) about the > > >electric submarine 'Nautilus' and its mysterious inventor Captain > > >Nemo. This novel has been adapted for television and films several > > >times. > > > > alt."20,000 Li Under the Sea". > > Yep. > > > > >"À l'Ouest du Mississippi" (West of the Mississippi) about a pair of > > >government agents from Lousianne and the NAL who team up to stop the > > >plans of a brilliant but cruel military inventor named Dr. August > > >Loney (this book was prophetic in its description of the equivalent > > >of tanks, machine guns and gas warfare). > > > > Sounds like alt."The Wild Wild West". Is it? > > Keerect-amudo! > > > >"L'île brumeuse" (The Misty Island) about a shipwrecked man who finds > > >his way to a deserted island full of puzzles and traps, who slowly > > >pieces together from clues the history of two brothers (Louis and > > >Dagobert) who laid waste to the island via their feuding. > > > > alt."Myst"?! > > Again, right! > > > > >This work, considered by many literary critics to be her best, is > > >sometimes seenas a seminal work in the growth of what became > > >Ecotopism. > > > > > >"Ligue des Étrangers" (League of Strangers) was her last novel and in > > >some ways the most controversial, laying her open to charges of > > > > >plag[a]rism. > > > > >Four persons, each using an alias (but strongly resembling heroes of > > >other popular works of the day, such as Inspector Watson) are > > >secretly hired by the Kemrese government to retrieve the plans for > > >an armored airship. The novel itself was a sensation and is > > >sometimes credited for increasing public awareness of how > > >devastating modern warfare might become, especially the climax with > > >duelling airships wrecking havoc over Castreleon. > > > > Not sure. Peut-etre alt."the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"? > > Exactly right. > > > <SNIP> > > >and Seoirse Fferreir > > > > I cannot decode this. > > He is the Kemrese author of the famous dystopian novel "1994" > > > >as well as Eugenio Roddenberry > > > > Clearly alt.the creator of "Star Trek" > > Although in IB that is known as "Space Voyage 2245" > > > >and Honoré Philippe Louvain. > > > > Another one I cannot decode. > > H.P.Louvain was a Louisianne author who created "Jacques Cartier de Mars" > > Keep in mind that IB is not a one-for-one substitution for *our* > world. Thus Juliette Verne would not write the same novels as her > male counterpart. > > Zahir >
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 11:49:23 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52463 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2007 19:49:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Jan 2007 19:49:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52012.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.95) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2007 19:49:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 42357 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jan 2007 19:49:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rRzgEAQVM1m2rsI4m31Jqktz5JooyeVV0C3sQSARpDBR9RfTJYBRO2Gp1zQSEi.G2HqoLBaaoa7k6exeqedyRBZJDf2d_Gl4_aaEqIX7yDLsM2VT_tPv1osUDexX6fwDxJGwBLkJo1DT6cW9fsN3PgH8_kdcgzzCaoMRkhAX7dnP6gjAdMT9 Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52012.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:49:06 PST Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:49:06 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eoo7nb+kqk6@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <423967.42325.qm@web52012.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.95 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=gAazZAMKGaTLBZ9WRVrkAUNjya02oLzMNdClU7MInYICBTHu X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- David <zahir@brainlink.com> wrote: > Some other thoughts that came to mind. As > imagined here, Juliette > Clemens (nee Verne) is a forward-thinking > person living in the largest > city of a frontier nation going through major > political change. She's > a resident of New Orleans, Louisianne > presumably from about 1865 to > circa 1905. One wonders what politics she > might have become involved > with? Probably anti-American. > How, for example, might she have viewed > the Mormons? Probably about the same as any other unbelievers (them being one step below Protestant Christains). I would have to research it a bit, but I think the safe money is on the CC (especially at that time) accounting them among the non-Christian religions. I don't know what the various Protestant Christian churches' views would be. I rather doubt the Mormon Church would have been as stong in that time frame as would later become. It was still a quite new religion in the 1860s! > Would she > have written about various First Presidents of > the Republic? Or other contemporaneous issues? I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some social comment crept into her works. Padraic > > Gotta think for a bit. But am very, very > interested in anyone's ideas. > > Zahir > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" > <zahir@...> wrote: > > > > Comments and answers below... > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@> > > wrote: > > > > > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" > <zahir@> wrote: > > > >Love the feedback! > > > >What I have so far (including some > excellent suggestions from the > > > >list) is that Juliette Gabrielle Verne was > born in Nantes, France. > > > >Her parents were a local lawyer and his > wife. She was always > > > >fascinated by the sea, somewhat to her > parents' scandal. In the end, > > > >she married a schooner captain from > Louisianne named Ulysses Clemens. > > > > > > *Related* to *here*'s Samuel Langhorne > Clemens? > > > > > > > I was thinking a brother. > > > > <SNIPPED FOR SPACE> > > > > > > >Some of her novels: > > > >"Une Année Sous les Vagues" (A Year > Beneath the Waves) about the > > > >electric submarine 'Nautilus' and its > mysterious inventor Captain > > > >Nemo. This novel has been adapted for > television and films several > > > >times. > > > > > > alt."20,000 Li Under the Sea". > > > > Yep. > > > > > > > >"À l'Ouest du Mississippi" (West of the > Mississippi) about a pair of > > > >government agents from Lousianne and the > NAL who team up to stop the > > > >plans of a brilliant but cruel military > inventor named Dr. August > > > >Loney (this book was prophetic in its > description of the equivalent > > > >of tanks, machine guns and gas warfare). > > > > > > Sounds like alt."The Wild Wild West". Is > it? > > > > Keerect-amudo! > > > > > >"L'île brumeuse" (The Misty Island) about > a shipwrecked man who finds > > > >his way to a deserted island full of > puzzles and traps, who slowly > > > >pieces together from clues the history of > two brothers (Louis and > > > >Dagobert) who laid waste to the island via > their feuding. > > > > > > alt."Myst"?! > > > > Again, right! > > > > > > > >This work, considered by many literary > critics to be her best, is > > > >sometimes seenas a seminal work in the > growth of what became > > > >Ecotopism. > > > > > > > >"Ligue des Étrangers" (League of > Strangers) was her last novel and in > > > >some ways the most controversial, laying > her open to charges of > > > > > > >plag[a]rism. > > > > > > >Four persons, each using an alias (but > strongly resembling heroes of > > > >other popular works of the day, such as > Inspector Watson) are > > > >secretly hired by the Kemrese government > to retrieve the plans for > > > >an armored airship. The novel itself was a > sensation and is > > > >sometimes credited for increasing public > awareness of how > > > >devastating modern warfare might become, > especially the climax with > > > >duelling airships wrecking havoc over > Castreleon. > > > > > > Not sure. Peut-etre alt."the League of > Extraordinary Gentlemen"? > > > > Exactly right. > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > >and Seoirse Fferreir > > > > > > I cannot decode this. > > > > He is the Kemrese author of the famous > dystopian novel "1994" > > > > > >as well as Eugenio Roddenberry > > > > > > Clearly alt.the creator of "Star Trek" > > > > Although in IB that is known as "Space Voyage > 2245" > > > > > >and Honoré Philippe Louvain. > > > > > > Another one I cannot decode. > > > > H.P.Louvain was a Louisianne author who > created "Jacques Cartier de > Mars" > > > > Keep in mind that IB is not a one-for-one > substitution for *our* > > world. Thus Juliette Verne would not write > the same novels as her > > male counterpart. > > > > Zahir > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Thu Jan 18 18:31:03 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29354 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2007 02:30:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2007 02:30:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.109) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 02:30:52 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2007 02:29:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2007 02:29:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jan 2007 02:29:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 02:29:10 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eopadm+k035@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <423967.42325.qm@web52012.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=Z42y2_etJ_wb9nRyLI3njF9h9Z_9TqbU71ecJLqKGcgWiX3siQ X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 IIRC, the French versions of Verne contain much social commentary which was excised (=dumbed down) for English lanugage versions. --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- David <zahir@...> wrote: > > > Some other thoughts that came to mind. As > > imagined here, Juliette > > Clemens (nee Verne) is a forward-thinking > > person living in the largest > > city of a frontier nation going through major > > political change. She's > > a resident of New Orleans, Louisianne > > presumably from about 1865 to > > circa 1905. One wonders what politics she > > might have become involved > > with? > > Probably anti-American. > > > How, for example, might she have viewed > > the Mormons? > > Probably about the same as any other unbelievers > (them being one step below Protestant > Christains). I would have to research it a bit, > but I think the safe money is on the CC > (especially at that time) accounting them among > the non-Christian religions. I don't know what > the various Protestant Christian churches' views > would be. I rather doubt the Mormon Church would > have been as stong in that time frame as would > later become. It was still a quite new religion > in the 1860s! > > > Would she > > have written about various First Presidents of > > the Republic? Or other contemporaneous issues? > > I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some social > comment crept into her works. > > Padraic > > > > > Gotta think for a bit. But am very, very > > interested in anyone's ideas. > > > > Zahir > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" > > <zahir@> wrote: > > > > > > Comments and answers below... > > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > > "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" > > <zahir@> wrote: > > > > >Love the feedback! > > > > >What I have so far (including some > > excellent suggestions from the > > > > >list) is that Juliette Gabrielle Verne was > > born in Nantes, France. > > > > >Her parents were a local lawyer and his > > wife. She was always > > > > >fascinated by the sea, somewhat to her > > parents' scandal. In the end, > > > > >she married a schooner captain from > > Louisianne named Ulysses Clemens. > > > > > > > > *Related* to *here*'s Samuel Langhorne > > Clemens? > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking a brother. > > > > > > <SNIPPED FOR SPACE> > > > > > > > > >Some of her novels: > > > > >"Une Année Sous les Vagues" (A Year > > Beneath the Waves) about the > > > > >electric submarine 'Nautilus' and its > > mysterious inventor Captain > > > > >Nemo. This novel has been adapted for > > television and films several > > > > >times. > > > > > > > > alt."20,000 Li Under the Sea". > > > > > > Yep. > > > > > > > > > > >"À l'Ouest du Mississippi" (West of the > > Mississippi) about a pair of > > > > >government agents from Lousianne and the > > NAL who team up to stop the > > > > >plans of a brilliant but cruel military > > inventor named Dr. August > > > > >Loney (this book was prophetic in its > > description of the equivalent > > > > >of tanks, machine guns and gas warfare). > > > > > > > > Sounds like alt."The Wild Wild West". Is > > it? > > > > > > Keerect-amudo! > > > > > > > >"L'île brumeuse" (The Misty Island) about > > a shipwrecked man who finds > > > > >his way to a deserted island full of > > puzzles and traps, who slowly > > > > >pieces together from clues the history of > > two brothers (Louis and > > > > >Dagobert) who laid waste to the island via > > their feuding. > > > > > > > > alt."Myst"?! > > > > > > Again, right! > > > > > > > > > > >This work, considered by many literary > > critics to be her best, is > > > > >sometimes seenas a seminal work in the > > growth of what became > > > > >Ecotopism. > > > > > > > > > >"Ligue des Étrangers" (League of > > Strangers) was her last novel and in > > > > >some ways the most controversial, laying > > her open to charges of > > > > > > > > >plag[a]rism. > > > > > > > > >Four persons, each using an alias (but > > strongly resembling heroes of > > > > >other popular works of the day, such as > > Inspector Watson) are > > > > >secretly hired by the Kemrese government > > to retrieve the plans for > > > > >an armored airship. The novel itself was a > > sensation and is > > > > >sometimes credited for increasing public > > awareness of how > > > > >devastating modern warfare might become, > > especially the climax with > > > > >duelling airships wrecking havoc over > > Castreleon. > > > > > > > > Not sure. Peut-etre alt."the League of > > Extraordinary Gentlemen"? > > > > > > Exactly right. > > > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > >and Seoirse Fferreir > > > > > > > > I cannot decode this. > > > > > > He is the Kemrese author of the famous > > dystopian novel "1994" > > > > > > > >as well as Eugenio Roddenberry > > > > > > > > Clearly alt.the creator of "Star Trek" > > > > > > Although in IB that is known as "Space Voyage > > 2245" > > > > > > > >and Honoré Philippe Louvain. > > > > > > > > Another one I cannot decode. > > > > > > H.P.Louvain was a Louisianne author who > > created "Jacques Cartier de > > Mars" > > > > > > Keep in mind that IB is not a one-for-one > > substitution for *our* > > > world. Thus Juliette Verne would not write > > the same novels as her > > > male counterpart. > > > > > > Zahir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . >
From jeffwilson63@frii.com Thu Jan 18 18:47:55 2007 Return-Path: <jeffwilson63@frii.com> X-Sender: jeffwilson63@frii.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96805 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2007 02:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2007 02:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.frii.com) (216.17.128.162) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 02:46:24 -0000 Received: from [4.225.211.35] (dialup-4.225.211.35.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.225.211.35]) by mail.frii.com (FRII) with ESMTP id 955C7A444C for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:44:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <45B030A7.9070101@frii.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 19:44:55 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com References: <eoo7nb+kqk6@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eoo7nb+kqk6@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 216.17.128.162 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@frii.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193537240; y=uFoe-wDsPRW18Sl501oZ-vaZugEvWDLBzAIhRxtQKHSGqpxwPWY5jg X-Yahoo-Profile: jeff_wilson63 David wrote: > Some other thoughts that came to mind. As imagined here, Juliette > Clemens (nee Verne) is a forward-thinking person living in the largest > city of a frontier nation going through major political change. She's > a resident of New Orleans, Louisianne presumably from about 1865 to > circa 1905. One wonders what politics she might have become involved > with? How, for example, might she have viewed the Mormons? Well, the original Jules Verne was generally fair and open-minded about religions, but generally avoided presenting them in his works. The positive aspects of European colonialism were presented in concert with Christian missionary work. In general I would say that Juliette would avoid the issue in her writings. > Would she > have written about various First Presidents of the Republic? Or other > contemporaneous issues? Definitely on the contemporary issues. She would probably be a strong advocate of Native rights, and equally strong against government corruption. Jules Verne fully recognized both the positive and negative parts of European culture, particularly as it involved colonialism. -- Jefferson http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 20:07:04 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6887 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2007 04:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m40a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2007 04:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52005.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.88) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 04:07:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 83521 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2007 04:06:53 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: UQ1.rHIVM1l8AruVG.iGkFOWb92v57i6CQfKWhUNOEuls612HgiRCG.73nwqmyIx3Hku2sb0maW6I6yaIHoK3dQd6geJf_6ChA1jYXfdAlG_7xAHrVHhmD.qGm2bLg5T3x8.2n52JhM4okH_YG9CJCew_qrgocB4zhdUC3T7EJgVGP1iL9ix Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:06:53 PST Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:06:53 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eopadm+k035@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <290719.78210.qm@web52005.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.88 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=VAjgjIYFBbmxPqQ5SnNuY0i-hMRb-YzhYSu9NF6hg4r1Nbky X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> wrote: > IIRC, the French versions of Verne contain much > social commentary > which was excised (=dumbed down) for English > lanugage versions. Then I suspect it would be present in Juliette Verne's works as well. Whether "dummed down" or not, I couldn't say. Presumably _someone_ would have done a proper and artful translation of such a classic author. Padraic > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > --- David <zahir@...> wrote: > > > > > Some other thoughts that came to mind. As > > > imagined here, Juliette > > > Clemens (nee Verne) is a forward-thinking > > > person living in the largest > > > city of a frontier nation going through > major > > > political change. She's > > > a resident of New Orleans, Louisianne > > > presumably from about 1865 to > > > circa 1905. One wonders what politics she > > > might have become involved > > > with? > > > > Probably anti-American. > > > > > How, for example, might she have viewed > > > the Mormons? > > > > Probably about the same as any other > unbelievers > > (them being one step below Protestant > > Christains). I would have to research it a > bit, > > but I think the safe money is on the CC > > (especially at that time) accounting them > among > > the non-Christian religions. I don't know > what > > the various Protestant Christian churches' > views > > would be. I rather doubt the Mormon Church > would > > have been as stong in that time frame as > would > > later become. It was still a quite new > religion > > in the 1860s! > > > > > Would she > > > have written about various First Presidents > of > > > the Republic? Or other contemporaneous > issues? > > > > I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some social > > comment crept into her works. > > > > Padraic > > > > > > > > Gotta think for a bit. But am very, very > > > interested in anyone's ideas. > > > > > > Zahir > > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" > > > <zahir@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Comments and answers below... > > > > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > > > "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > "David" > > > <zahir@> wrote: > > > > > >Love the feedback! > > > > > >What I have so far (including some > > > excellent suggestions from the > > > > > >list) is that Juliette Gabrielle Verne > was > > > born in Nantes, France. > > > > > >Her parents were a local lawyer and > his > > > wife. She was always > > > > > >fascinated by the sea, somewhat to her > > > parents' scandal. In the end, > > > > > >she married a schooner captain from > > > Louisianne named Ulysses Clemens. > > > > > > > > > > *Related* to *here*'s Samuel Langhorne > > > Clemens? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking a brother. > > > > > > > > <SNIPPED FOR SPACE> > > > > > > > > > > >Some of her novels: > > > > > >"Une Année Sous les Vagues" (A Year > > > Beneath the Waves) about the > > > > > >electric submarine 'Nautilus' and its > > > mysterious inventor Captain > > > > > >Nemo. This novel has been adapted for > > > television and films several > > > > > >times. > > > > > > > > > > alt."20,000 Li Under the Sea". > > > > > > > > Yep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"À l'Ouest du Mississippi" (West of > the > > > Mississippi) about a pair of > > > > > >government agents from Lousianne and > the > > > NAL who team up to stop the > > > > > >plans of a brilliant but cruel > military > > > inventor named Dr. August > > > > > >Loney (this book was prophetic in its > > > description of the equivalent > > > > > >of tanks, machine guns and gas > warfare). > > > > > > > > > > Sounds like alt."The Wild Wild West". > Is > > > it? > > > > > > > > Keerect-amudo! > > > > > > > > > >"L'île brumeuse" (The Misty Island) > about > > > a shipwrecked man who finds > > > > > >his way to a deserted island full of > > > puzzles and traps, who slowly > > > > > >pieces together from clues the history > of > > > two brothers (Louis and > > > > > >Dagobert) who laid waste to the island > via > > > their feuding. > > > > > > > > > > alt."Myst"?! > > > > > > > > Again, right! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >This work, considered by many literary > > > critics to be her best, is > > > > > >sometimes seenas a seminal work in the > > > growth of what became > > > > > >Ecotopism. > > > > > > > > > > > >"Ligue des Étrangers" (League of > > > Strangers) was her last novel and in > > > > > >some ways the most controversial, > laying > > > her open to charges of > > > > > > > > > > >plag[a]rism. > > > > > > > > > > >Four persons, each using an alias (but > > > strongly resembling heroes of > > > > > >other popular works of the day, such > as > > > Inspector Watson) are > > > > > >secretly hired by the Kemrese > government > > > to retrieve the plans for > > > > > >an armored airship. The novel itself > was a > > > sensation and is > > > > > >sometimes credited for increasing > public > > > awareness of how > > > > > >devastating modern warfare might > become, > > > especially the climax with > > > > > >duelling airships wrecking havoc over > > > Castreleon. > > > > > > > > > > Not sure. Peut-etre alt."the League of > > > Extraordinary Gentlemen"? > > > > > > > > Exactly right. > > > > > > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > >and Seoirse Fferreir > > > > > > > > > > I cannot decode this. > > > > > > > > He is the Kemrese author of the famous > > > dystopian novel "1994" > > > > > > > > > >as well as Eugenio Roddenberry > > > > > > > > > > Clearly alt.the creator of "Star Trek" > > > > > > > > Although in IB that is known as "Space > Voyage > > > 2245" > > > > > > > > > >and Honoré Philippe Louvain. > > > > > > > > > > Another one I cannot decode. > > > > > > > > H.P.Louvain was a Louisianne author who > > > created "Jacques Cartier de > > > Mars" > > > > > > > > Keep in mind that IB is not a one-for-one > > > substitution for *our* > > > > world. Thus Juliette Verne would not > write > > > the same novels as her > > > > male counterpart. > > > > > > > > Zahir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > > > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios > asteros; tamenio > > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem > emduriase! > > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > > > -- > > > > Ill Bethisad -- > > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > > > > Come visit The World! -- > > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 20:54:42 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88263 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2007 04:54:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2007 04:54:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52007.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.90) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 04:54:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 15971 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2007 04:53:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZxunKuEVM1nhjK0H_laM4SrSwa4WdnDwYtf_BElXrY7rmFUnQtzdJffajygYSrZ0jrX1msouKJKkk1lqeBOM5LwRmt9my1B77EXnSDXOjLXUlz7AMp5tgxNkvapJSt15vLiWwf6lDplpMg39mHHiewrRWFJWVtbqX2RBjmJ8bzLFRPmmHfjU Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:53:05 PST Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:53:05 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070117203742.90336.qmail@web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <979704.97881.qm@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.90 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Extinct animals here but perhaps not there X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=N4WkTe52nsmZ3QnF9HnnbaZypG5l6M3ligeb44FylXb6ZNM9 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Hmm... Must work on this some for Li Alam. Will look forward to it! In the World, there are many sorts of megafauna -- some of which would be familiar as extinct animals *here*. Others are indigenous to that particular pantleg of reality. Some familiar beasties are the various kindreds of oliphant (some hairy, some not so), nashornbeest, great sloths, aurochs, various greater and lesser elk, and many other deer. Some of the warmer climes are called home to various kinds of dragon (probably not the mythical sort, but some sort of ruddy great lizard). The cetaceans are quite well established, both usual whales and others that might be termed "living fossils" like the basilosaur. I don't have my beastiary to hand, so can't list any of the more exotic indigenous creatures. There are legged serpents; "jumping jacks" that leap up (only about a foot or so) and drive a sharp spiked bill into the chest of its prey where they suck out the blood; huge two headed ostriches; . One I do recall some information about is the octopodes, an eight legged marsupial mammal with a leathery bill, two or three sets of short horns and a flattish tail. It emits a powerful great stink when threatened and its meat smells absolutely foul. It is a fairly aggressive animal and has no predators (even winter starved wild dogs have been known to turn their noses up at fresh octopodes carrion). Nevertheless, some Daine consider it a delicasy. Padraic > For a start, I can say that several of the > large > Cetacea are extinct *there - Northern Right > Whale, > North Pacific Right Whale and Bowhead Whale for > certain, and probably the Southern Right and > Grey > Whales as well. > > OTOH, the Passenger Pigeon thrives, and Bison > and > Condors are a lot more numerous. As for > others, I > must have a think... > > On a related note, what about introductions? > For > example, was the Carolina Grey Squirrel > introduced to > Europe? What about rabbits, foxes, dromedary > camels > and cane toads in Australia? What about other > animals? > Were there different introductions than *here? > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in > competitive emailing. Find out more at the > Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and > win prizes. > http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From boreanesia@yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 08:16:02 2007 Return-Path: <boreanesia@yahoo.com> X-Sender: boreanesia@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47428 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2007 16:16:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2007 16:16:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (66.163.178.108) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 16:16:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 60044 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2007 16:15:46 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: HbeGZRIVM1k6gsrohmEIqyeijLipVqZzluB3JkNnWj3wz1g6s7h_A.v.CSukpx_a2g-- Received: from [194.255.106.38] by web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:15:46 CET Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:15:46 +0100 (CET) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <7b9d11410701160343x1f8cd79eh7867548503c82337@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-793440204-1169223346=:59418" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <594853.59418.qm@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.163.178.108 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Kristian Jensen <boreanesia@yahoo.com> Subject: SV: Re: [conculture] Scripts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=290962088; y=k4mNklmE02gFt3VPSnC70615jHb9bZqUKe47N4gbM7HkJBxIog X-Yahoo-Profile: boreanesia --0-793440204-1169223346=:59418 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Barry Garcia <Montrei13@gmail.com> skrev:
 
> This depends upon whatever the caretaker of
> Mazapahit and Xrivizaja decides. Here, at
> least in Indonesia, the Javanese alphabet
> was usedas far along as the 1940's since
> according to Omniglot, it was banned
> by the Japanese. When the Dutch in OTL
> conquered Indonesia, the Latin alphabet
> began to supplant it. Currently it has use
> as a decorative script rather than being
> used by most of the populace. My guess is > with the survival of Xrivizaja, and
> Mazapahit, the script is probably used for
> both nations (unless of course, Roger, who
> I think still handles these two nations 
> says otherwise), with of course their Latin > scripts. It's possible that the Latin script
> supplanted the Javanese script, but it would
> be nice to keep it there.
 
I would wager that Xrivizaja uses the Javanese
script, while Mazapahit either uses Devanagari
or one of the indigenous scripts of Sumatra.
The Majapahit Empire of *here* did not use the
Javanese script, but used instead Devanagari.
 
> Aceh would likely use Arabic, as it is the
> only nation in that area to have been
> islamicized.
Agree.
-kristian- 8)


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From boreanesia@yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 08:22:55 2007 Return-Path: <boreanesia@yahoo.com> X-Sender: boreanesia@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25362 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2007 16:21:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2007 16:21:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (66.163.178.99) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 16:21:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 70077 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2007 16:20:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20070119162009.70075.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 9bxxqasVM1mZlmTEeKJZumq2XGS3nnI31KEGHusF7le6ftJ5Q0kiB3whGIjFS91uGBJuVZQ7egNlr0D5JasqxRxk9A-- Received: from [194.255.106.38] by web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:20:09 CET Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:20:09 +0100 (CET) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eonv7i+uc8d@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1474274840-1169223609=:69266" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 66.163.178.99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Kristian Jensen <boreanesia@yahoo.com> Subject: SV: [conculture] Re: Scripts X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=290962088; y=bUe9Ns83pzSWcHMxM3z7oMlPjblmU_uLNfG3WW5Igrrsvrpxng X-Yahoo-Profile: boreanesia --0-1474274840-1169223609=:69266 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
kim tiu <general_tiu@yahoo.com> skrev:
> Will Nam Viet invent a 'native' script influenced by
> Chinese and the the Tai?
More likely not Tai, but Cham.
-kristian- 8)


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From boreanesia@yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 08:46:59 2007 Return-Path: <boreanesia@yahoo.com> X-Sender: boreanesia@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33865 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2007 16:46:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Jan 2007 16:46:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (66.163.178.99) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2007 16:46:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 79425 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jan 2007 16:46:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: myKixlwVM1lkTcCLlXXobKre76X6G9NnFnotNsIN7RXDow3lWnyfLCzSkwvorkO2ZQ-- Received: from [194.255.106.38] by web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:46:40 CET Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:46:40 +0100 (CET) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eo2b9p+q893@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-743905111-1169225200=:53499" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <172185.53499.qm@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.163.178.99 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Kristian Jensen <boreanesia@yahoo.com> Subject: SV: [conculture] Re: European enclaves in India X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=290962088; y=QAYBp8cbba3LRGj7byQV7huPMPbq4Dq9cNKxlmoqVoORDNH_9g X-Yahoo-Profile: boreanesia --0-743905111-1169225200=:53499 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Llywelyn Jones skrev:
 
First of all, my apologies for the
delayed response.
 
> But given enough time, and judging
> by the situation *there* of the > South Asian states being too strong
> to conquer (for whatever reason),
 
Basically, asian states in IB, due to
a stronger chinese influenze,
centralized their rule much earlier
than *here*.
 
In our timeline, states in much of
southern & southeastern Asia were,
at the time Europeans arrived, really
loose personal alliances between local
village chiefs and town rulers, each
with their own body of armed men, who
themselves were free to choose who
they wanted to serve. Allegiance, in
the western sense, was a foreign
concept in much of southern/
southeastern asia. Europeans could
easily manipulate this.
 
In IB, on the other hand, by the time
Europeans arrived, all Asian states
had armed men who owed their
allegiance to one central authority.
 
> the impetus for trade is going to
> be much stronger. Therefore, > perhaps some of the factories are
> going to evolve into enclaves over
> time (or perhaps some mention could
> be made of them somewhere in > appropriate IB articles).
 
By the time modern transportation
gets developed in IB, much of these
factories/warehouses would probably
be sold back to the host country
anyway. There would no longer be a
need for them when goods can be
shipped more quickly than. But you
are right, I think some mention of
them in the wikipedia is warranted.
> Anyway, what about my idea of some
> enclaves / factories in Southeast > Asia, such as in Mazapahit and
> Xrivizaja? Surely there would be
> some trading posts around there
> (mostly Batavian, perhaps some FK
> and/or Portuguese).
They were all sold back to the host
country by the mid 19th century. ;)
-kristian- 8)


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From carrajena@yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 20:26:36 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12131 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 04:26:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2007 04:26:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60323.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.131) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 04:26:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 74637 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jan 2007 04:26:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 0OCZF6cVM1kJmQBmxHprxfbDcIt7dF.4tMywTi5gnx.EsbemssYmDMzRbd7MqdbL68405QERSDAL3UHK1Rlpkck.WDzlVkMVLTqbIQgdnPpX6x9H9yvoZ9NFYYMpRBLyI3tcwxiNbDdDvsE- Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60323.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:26:16 PST Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:26:16 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <503520.28803.qm@web60317.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <230252.74399.qm@web60323.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.131 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y=RfS19cFaxHOly1yLgO09i3RPZLZhPskiKQWPRVbiPOxWLOY0 X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena This is just to not that yesterday (the 20th) was ul Laxua ad ul Edjipu -- the Flight into Egypt and tomorrow (the 22nd) is als In~uchinchas Sampas -- the Holy Innocents. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From carrajena@yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 20:27:13 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 4132 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 04:27:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2007 04:27:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60325.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.133) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 04:27:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 41977 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jan 2007 04:27:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lWICtVAVM1mv3nDt_F3B6cMP5y0YCMesjadzlH.B1nILQbacMDEv1Ce1l1Hhq2UkfuFDPCTYFsiwELsT7XdYcPkMfHMK5fadZNg8xq78ZGs1wkbMFVpsPr_a6qdPCNwkNO3PQmB5VgPvkAE- Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60325.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:27:01 PST Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:27:01 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <503520.28803.qm@web60317.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <750698.40733.qm@web60325.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.133 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y°LzLd0xIuhUPZkTbpdHPZcs1gH04-hOgr_w6BAbIXFs1zDg X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena This is just to not that yesterday (the 20th) was ul Laxua ad ul Edjipu -- the Flight into Egypt and tomorrow (the 22nd) is als In~uchinchas Sampas -- the Holy Innocents. These two days formally end the Donatist Christmas season. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 21:03:00 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62744 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 05:01:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2007 05:01:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52008.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.91) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 05:01:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 48384 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jan 2007 05:01:25 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: AEdrxyoVM1npIw6lII2JUsQyH50zFlCinEUImsH9qj.9E1QkcpIKDXR5ITDPYDN0f.5izUsdZhJ7bZOxODx23Is0X5kfM5zhLMc99eOUF1Iju1LnFMP4TRMc4IALBxqDXImzXHnNHjfipCsca3qMLJ0WJxol..FpDPGAf.RDc7II5oJABGB9XnltmicG9v4sLxPZhgQ- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:01:24 PST Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:01:24 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <750698.40733.qm@web60325.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <24914.44897.qm@web52008.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.91 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=wN_W6yUunH7lo3CPH4G8qYWfLPHxrtWfIa05pHxHeIbIXJqF X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > This is just to not that yesterday (the 20th) > was ul > Laxua ad ul Edjipu -- the Flight into Egypt and > tomorrow (the 22nd) is als In~uchinchas Sampas > -- the > Holy Innocents. These two days formally end > the Donatist Christmas season. On the calendar from the World, tomorrow -- well today actually! -- is the Feast of Timothy Apostle. Holy Infants was on 29 December. Christmas season ends on 6 January, with the Feast of the Three Astrologers. The week following the 6th marks the Eastern Church's deference to the Baptist religion, as both account Yohannas the Baptiser as an important harbinger. One sees him as the precursor of the Christ; the other as the true Christ himself. Padraic > Adam > > 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al > credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns > ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus > tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul > Livanunu, ed murra. > > Machu 2:11 > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From carrajena@yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 21:23:57 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35383 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 05:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2007 05:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60325.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.133) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 05:23:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 58120 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jan 2007 05:23:29 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 5tWsZnUVM1mzXpSUUgTWo7L2V7SPz3Xzmtc_c2xIvFU6d38tmR92J.1_26ElbUz6bo4UXwI3N8Px94eQlrt9AaU0ZWBKu7bAHn2dBhJHD67_V_ca1X_om0d8VKNS6rKYheArnAEatxYc3ssTipDPVvXfHhc- Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60325.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:23:29 PST Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:23:29 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <24914.44897.qm@web52008.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <406982.56714.qm@web60325.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.133 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y=YjP7Y0u2zfa_mAPY2HO47KFdcnmmJHd7b06Fvaz0PlOBJdiz X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > This is just to not that yesterday (the 20th) > > was ul > > Laxua ad ul Edjipu -- the Flight into Egypt and > > tomorrow (the 22nd) is als In~uchinchas Sampas > > -- the > > Holy Innocents. These two days formally end > > the Donatist Christmas season. > > On the calendar from the World, tomorrow -- well > today actually! -- is the Feast of Timothy > Apostle. Holy Infants was on 29 December. > Christmas season ends on 6 January, with the > Feast of the Three Astrologers. > > The week following the 6th marks the Eastern > Church's deference to the Baptist religion, as > both account Yohannas the Baptiser as an > important harbinger. One sees him as the > precursor of the Christ; the other as the true > Christ himself. > > Padraic > Donatists make the most of Christmas. They have the four Sundays of Advent, preceeding January 6th (the only correct and proper day for the celebration!) followed by Prsentation on the 14th, Feast of the Magi on the 19th, Flight into Egypt and finally Holy Innocents. That means that if Christmas itself falls on a Sunday the full season can last up to 42 days. It's almost as long as the complete Easter celebration which is 58 days. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 11:00:50 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43526 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2007 18:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Jan 2007 18:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52013.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.96) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Jan 2007 18:49:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 41788 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jan 2007 18:48:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RJfumboVM1lNfJ5.c9NmjWPvKkfBjGp8P1ktNAnz2976jrj09h6uxGIacKyMzlXEeuM6MS7YL_Wk8gMfgfhmdAmr4AHacnKHfozGFjLhZymjC5mZpsQNgsaIgrerbztAhL9rgxN8dVkyxgFG.XAyCQT17FzKiVDDynD9Nxn4LuGr2npmQp0zQG4CAGNK5CK1AiyltZw- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52013.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:48:47 PST Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:48:47 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <406982.56714.qm@web60325.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <534284.41009.qm@web52013.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.96 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=x-8-J_FjK1D8INiNbW0x1qUiEnI4RkZi2A_SxOelZDw24-Za X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > This is just to not that yesterday (the > 20th) > > > was ul > > > Laxua ad ul Edjipu -- the Flight into Egypt > and > > > tomorrow (the 22nd) is als In~uchinchas > Sampas > > > -- the > > > Holy Innocents. These two days formally > end > > > the Donatist Christmas season. > > > > On the calendar from the World, tomorrow -- > well > > today actually! -- is the Feast of Timothy > > Apostle. Holy Infants was on 29 December. > > Christmas season ends on 6 January, with the > > Feast of the Three Astrologers. > > > > The week following the 6th marks the Eastern > > Church's deference to the Baptist religion, > as > > both account Yohannas the Baptiser as an > > important harbinger. One sees him as the > > precursor of the Christ; the other as the > true > > Christ himself. > > > > Padraic > > > > > Donatists make the most of Christmas. I daresay! > They have the > four Sundays of Advent, preceeding January 6th > (the only correct and proper day for the > celebration!) Is this not really a differentiation between Julian and Gregorian calendars? After all, December 25 Julian = January 6 Gregorian! This is great, by the way, for *here*'s Catholics who disdain the commercialisation of Xmas. They can do all the presents and reindeer stuff on secular Xmas (Dec 25) and then celebrate a more religious Xmas with their eastern confreres on Jan 6. There was no calendar shift in the World, so I suppose they are still using their equivalent of the Julian calendar. > followed by Prsentation on the 14th, Feast of > the Magi > on the 19th, Flight into Egypt and finally Holy > Innocents. That means that if Christmas itself > falls > on a Sunday the full season can last up to 42 > days. On the thirty-ninth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me... > It's almost as long as the complete Easter > celebration > which is 58 days. Let's see: Nov 23 marks the first Sunday of Advent, and there are four full weeks in preparation of Nativity Week, which itself begins on Dec 23. In that time, there are many feasts: Nicolaus the Wonderworker (Dec 6) is a mainstay and has become a day of gift presentations; there are also the Feast of the Four and Seventy Ancestors and the Feast of the Genealogy (thanks much!). The Nativity itself is Dec 25; Holy Infants on Dec 29; Feast of the Twelfth Night on Jan 5; and the Three Astrologers on Jan 6. That brings the Christmas season's 5 1/2 weeks to a close. The feasts surrounding Yohannas the Precursor are sufficiently important to interrupt the Christmas festivities. However, a brief repreive is had on Feb 2 when the Presentation of Yeshue in the Temple is celebrated. Easter is a much more protracted time once you add Pentacost, being 12 weeks (89 days) in overall length, beginning with the Vigil of the Great Lent on 7 March and ending with the Feast of the Fifty Days on June 5. Lent is only interrupted by the Feast of the (secular) New Year on March 25 -- otherwise it's all fasting and performing tapas. The Great Pascha is Sunday April 16, and follows an intense week of Vigils and Feasts. Religious houses celebrate the Lesser Pascha on April 14, which of course is a (probably imperfect) recollection of the original Pascha being on 14 Nisanu, which later gets equated with April. Padraic > Adam Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From carrajena@yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 20:41:11 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74408 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2007 04:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2007 04:40:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60318.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.126) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2007 04:40:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 58268 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jan 2007 04:39:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20070123043919.58266.qmail@web60318.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: dZV7JjAVM1mux4C9ma9OOtfEFdjnsuEBSDAPB9tnrJ8ESq4Ifv9N43zh6MHEqiH0gI2JukeRGGPK5z2NrgCkqepc3PwV5QHbb4SQ7r8bIJKbMpffPnVq6_mvm7LLikT06X6M8kYOJI2foaPI5I4r3CYSQ.Q- Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60318.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:39:19 PST Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:39:19 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <534284.41009.qm@web52013.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.126 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y=51dJXPkC0TKliuw-Q3cHWtI1GTxTS4hm5WXkEsdX0x4Y7gJH X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > Is this not really a differentiation between > Julian and Gregorian calendars? After all, > December 25 Julian = January 6 Gregorian! No, they follow the ancient custom of celebrating Christmas on the 6th of January, Julian. The feast wasn't moved to Dec. 25th till some time in the 400's, after the split. > > This is great, by the way, for *here*'s Catholics > who disdain the commercialisation of Xmas. They > can do all the presents and reindeer stuff on > secular Xmas (Dec 25) and then celebrate a more > religious Xmas with their eastern confreres on > Jan 6. > > There was no calendar shift in the World, so I > suppose they are still using their equivalent of > the Julian calendar. Cool. > > > followed by Prsentation on the 14th, Feast of > > the Magi > > on the 19th, Flight into Egypt and finally Holy > > Innocents. That means that if Christmas itself > > falls > > on a Sunday the full season can last up to 42 > > days. > > On the thirty-ninth day of Christmas, my true > love gave to me... > > > It's almost as long as the complete Easter > > celebration > > which is 58 days. > > Let's see: > > Nov 23 marks the first Sunday of Advent, and > there are four full weeks in preparation of > Nativity Week, which itself begins on Dec 23. In > that time, there are many feasts: Nicolaus the > Wonderworker (Dec 6) is a mainstay and has become > a day of gift presentations; there are also the > Feast of the Four and Seventy Ancestors and the > Feast of the Genealogy (thanks much!). No prob! The > Nativity itself is Dec 25; Holy Infants on Dec > 29; Feast of the Twelfth Night on Jan 5; and the > Three Astrologers on Jan 6. > > That brings the Christmas season's 5 1/2 weeks to > a close. The feasts surrounding Yohannas the > Precursor are sufficiently important to interrupt > the Christmas festivities. However, a brief > repreive is had on Feb 2 when the Presentation of > Yeshue in the Temple is celebrated. > > Easter is a much more protracted time once you > add Pentacost, being 12 weeks (89 days) in > overall length, beginning with the Vigil of the > Great Lent on 7 March and ending with the Feast > of the Fifty Days on June 5. Lent is only > interrupted by the Feast of the (secular) New > Year on March 25 -- otherwise it's all fasting > and performing tapas. Eek! I forgot to include Lent in my calculation of Eastertide. So have to refigure to add a few weeks onto that 58 days I quoted above. Woah, it must be close to 100 days! I gotta get a 2007 calendar. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Mon Jan 22 22:45:10 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16868 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2007 06:45:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2007 06:45:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.169) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2007 06:45:09 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n8.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2007 06:44:56 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2007 06:44:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jan 2007 06:44:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 06:44:55 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ep4at8+uf4q@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070123043919.58266.qmail@web60318.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.169 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=uBcyITE7NfQ2bAN-hpVEEp6sVHIz8BbZ_EkyeysOrh7wrj8S0w X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Adam Walker <carrajena@...> wrote: > > > --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > Is this not really a differentiation between > > Julian and Gregorian calendars? After all, > > December 25 Julian = January 6 Gregorian! > > No, they follow the ancient custom of celebrating > Christmas on the 6th of January, Julian. The feast > wasn't moved to Dec. 25th till some time in the 400's, > after the split. As do the Fortunatians in the FIU. The remaining Melchitsedeqin in the Amazon also use this date. > > > > > This is great, by the way, for *here*'s Catholics > > who disdain the commercialisation of Xmas. They > > can do all the presents and reindeer stuff on > > secular Xmas (Dec 25) and then celebrate a more > > religious Xmas with their eastern confreres on > > Jan 6. > > > > There was no calendar shift in the World, so I > > suppose they are still using their equivalent of > > the Julian calendar. > > Cool. > > > > > > followed by Prsentation on the 14th, Feast of > > > the Magi > > > on the 19th, Flight into Egypt and finally Holy > > > Innocents. That means that if Christmas itself > > > falls > > > on a Sunday the full season can last up to 42 > > > days. > > > > On the thirty-ninth day of Christmas, my true > > love gave to me... > > > > > It's almost as long as the complete Easter > > > celebration > > > which is 58 days. > > > > Let's see: > > > > Nov 23 marks the first Sunday of Advent, and > > there are four full weeks in preparation of > > Nativity Week, which itself begins on Dec 23. In > > that time, there are many feasts: Nicolaus the > > Wonderworker (Dec 6) is a mainstay and has become > > a day of gift presentations; there are also the > > Feast of the Four and Seventy Ancestors and the > > Feast of the Genealogy (thanks much!). > > No prob! > > The > > Nativity itself is Dec 25; Holy Infants on Dec > > 29; Feast of the Twelfth Night on Jan 5; and the > > Three Astrologers on Jan 6. > > > > That brings the Christmas season's 5 1/2 weeks to > > a close. The feasts surrounding Yohannas the > > Precursor are sufficiently important to interrupt > > the Christmas festivities. However, a brief > > repreive is had on Feb 2 when the Presentation of > > Yeshue in the Temple is celebrated. > > > > Easter is a much more protracted time once you > > add Pentacost, being 12 weeks (89 days) in > > overall length, beginning with the Vigil of the > > Great Lent on 7 March and ending with the Feast > > of the Fifty Days on June 5. Lent is only > > interrupted by the Feast of the (secular) New > > Year on March 25 -- otherwise it's all fasting > > and performing tapas. > > Eek! I forgot to include Lent in my calculation of > Eastertide. So have to refigure to add a few weeks > onto that 58 days I quoted above. Woah, it must be > close to 100 days! I gotta get a 2007 calendar. > > Adam > > > > 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. > > Machu 2:11 >
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Tue Jan 23 08:26:15 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 64383 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2007 16:26:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jan 2007 16:26:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.67) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 2007 16:26:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 85685 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Jan 2007 16:13:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20070123161325.85683.qmail@web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: LR6RS8QVM1mFnikgJul.jDe9QNowqjkuWNfy5e0ceRhuegrM7EuFMlZbqFn6GcYFcW6z42BdWfojnCkuPd.N_UqbWtAGjZRQFEJ5vgxRXxxYsCKjTRChaBViOO9jqzcp0fR5KZx0MxT3GdNB11zT6TuDckVM8QrzkD5LlsziHPL2gCd1FFWhyA-- Received: from [67.64.104.128] by web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:13:25 GMT Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 16:13:25 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <24914.44897.qm@web52008.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=lBr0phpe5G34cND-98AoqIll-e3P56azb9GU-348ONglSLbxSNi2pA X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood In the liturgical year of the Apostolic Church in Li Alam, Holy Innocents was the 28th December, followed by the Feast of Ahya* Maryam the Virgin on 30th. The Flight into Egypt (li Xuqus a la Mizire) was celebrated on 2nd January, and the Twelve Days of Christmas are chased out with the celebration of Ed au Majis, the Feast of the Magi. The 2nd of Epiphany is the feast-day of Mar** Jaqai Baptuzar (St. John the Baptist), and the feasts of the Four Evangelists (14th), Martyrmas+ (21st), Mar Timotheus (24th), Mar Ephrem the Greater (28th) are also in January, which is finished out with the Feast of the Procession of the Holy Ark on the 30th. This last festival is a commemoration of King David's procession with the Ark of God into the city of Jerusalem in I Chronicles 15-16. It's a kind of Mardi Gras - communal processions through the cities, costumes, dancers, drums and musical instruments. *Ahya: Franj word for a (female) saint, from Gk. "Hagia" **Mar: Franj word for a (male) saint, from Syriac "Mar" +Martyrmas: The Great Feast of All the Martyrs of the Church is vaguely similar to the Western All Hallows on 1st Nov *here. --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > This is just to not that yesterday (the 20th) > > was ul > > Laxua ad ul Edjipu -- the Flight into Egypt and > > tomorrow (the 22nd) is als In~uchinchas Sampas > > -- the > > Holy Innocents. These two days formally end > > the Donatist Christmas season. > > On the calendar from the World, tomorrow -- well > today actually! -- is the Feast of Timothy > Apostle. Holy Infants was on 29 December. > Christmas season ends on 6 January, with the > Feast of the Three Astrologers. > > The week following the 6th marks the Eastern > Church's deference to the Baptist religion, as > both account Yohannas the Baptiser as an > important harbinger. One sees him as the > precursor of the Christ; the other as the true > Christ himself. > > Padraic > > > Adam > > > > 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al > > credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns > > ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus > > tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul > > Livanunu, ed murra. > > > > Machu 2:11 > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; > tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 19:16:26 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71573 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 03:15:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2007 03:15:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52008.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.91) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 03:15:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 10796 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jan 2007 03:15:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: kIpNpQUVM1nmpl9xaCaCOnPgiLS_v1svr2ambRi_9GLOqUGEC1sAeR5YiRdV0qwViS9SN.UpopinLEnDAWn5yVReAnLei_b8UTuS50GuDbLGpYXoZSdbw7MYrQdsBZyQ02t2Qmiqypc- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52008.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:15:21 PST Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:15:21 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070123043919.58266.qmail@web60318.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <770101.8723.qm@web52008.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.91 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=Tgh1putOKEdWLysyxtqSvGGZkp4bRcTwUOdakMk7pFjylfAG X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Is this not really a differentiation between > > Julian and Gregorian calendars? After all, > > December 25 Julian = January 6 Gregorian! > > No, they follow the ancient custom of > celebrating > Christmas on the 6th of January, Julian. The > feast > wasn't moved to Dec. 25th till some time in the > 400's, after the split. Ah, OK. > > This is great, by the way, for *here*'s > Catholics > > who disdain the commercialisation of Xmas. > They > > can do all the presents and reindeer stuff on > > secular Xmas (Dec 25) and then celebrate a > more > > religious Xmas with their eastern confreres > on > > Jan 6. > > > > There was no calendar shift in the World, so > I > > suppose they are still using their equivalent > of > > the Julian calendar. > > Cool. I actually finished working out the usual calendar. The standard calendar, based on the imperial calendar of the great Westlands, is 12 month of 30 days, with an intercalary month of 5 days at the end of February. The months are divided into two halves, obviously consisting of a fortnight each half. Each fortnight is divided from its neighbour by a "middle day" (the 15th) and an "inaugural day" (the 30th). Thus the first of the month is always a Sunday; the extra days don't have proper names. There are a couple visible satellites, so "lunar" calendars are dicey at best. The largest moon has a cycle of nearly 30 days (probably something like 29 3/4), so it is pretty close to the solar month length. I don't know what the cycles of the others are. As I mentioned, the New Year is 25 March which in the vicinity of the vernal wossname. Years tend to be named, though there is an official numbering as well. > Eek! I forgot to include Lent in my > calculation of Eastertide. Yeah, that's a big one to forget! ;) > So have to refigure to add a few weeks > onto that 58 days I quoted above. Woah, it > must be > close to 100 days! I gotta get a 2007 > calendar. > > Adam Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 19:26:32 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95093 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 03:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2007 03:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52007.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.90) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 03:26:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 19489 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jan 2007 03:25:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Pbcq26kVM1mQLTtCZTFVKh3SXlYVZgo8dD_TFqJOu0K6eG3bdMQSq_vZ.CyJ1uxRfIReR.mK_eLqLa3Y2SX1mjbctM2Yl6oG_OHlSSibsZtDKFI46mopGRqgVTo99jPDd221g8C30R7zg87A2UorUa2pMhxyBiWkBAD_g3JyCX4sy2IrdtXU Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:25:40 PST Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 19:25:40 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070123161325.85683.qmail@web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <402998.78994.qm@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.90 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Days of note X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=wmQrOv2K69GILSvHvJBHwJwaLWRjIy0pFVbo-fwiVzz4UzK4 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Feast > of the Procession of the Holy Ark on the 30th. > > This last festival is a commemoration of King > David's > procession with the Ark of God into the city of > Jerusalem in I Chronicles 15-16. It's a kind > of Mardi > Gras - communal processions through the cities, > costumes, dancers, drums and musical > instruments. I like that very much! I don't think the Ark is a well enough known thing in the Eastlands for that festival to exist. Probably not in the West either. > +Martyrmas: The Great Feast of All the Martyrs > of the > Church is vaguely similar to the Western All > Hallows on 1st Nov *here. The Church of the Eastlands is very much rooted in veneration of the Martyrs and Ancestors. I've noted before that churches are designed to mimic the ancient catacombs of the Westlands, the altar being a niche in the wall about the size and depth of a funerary chamber. There is a Feast of the Forty Martyrs; but apart from that, each Saturday is dedicated to the veneration of one's ancestors (spiritual and familial) and the martyrs. Padraic. Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 24 02:18:48 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24702 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 10:18:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2007 10:18:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 10:18:15 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 10:17:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 10:17:46 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:17:45 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ep7bo9+42f9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <172185.53499.qm@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: SV: [conculture] Re: European enclaves in India X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=4UikZKIBrfni6pjhYwjjUHriXd9Q-eGjUKMlKD-u7AdAjuWGUcBKvw X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones Ok, thanks for clearing all that up. However, I'm still wandering as to why Bombay is Kemrese and Madras is Scottish *there*. Surely it would be the other way around (since IB is a strongly convergent timeline and all)?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 05:14:18 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66991 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 13:14:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m39a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2007 13:14:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52007.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.90) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 13:14:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 22253 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Jan 2007 13:02:10 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: CxY8uSUVM1kU4wkzAdEdbOR2o6VDRbgry__EVapBh7keG5E7b8v3MKGK4orRv.txMs_BPco4STY1m7k39mySbeTbUJijRXofUa_.dXNadMa9mMpLHGm38xlTpKNU7GZ_8.PyKOyazlcKW2AekXWwZdvIjAeLTYyxTPrrm5udDnwt2FKe1evg Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52007.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:02:10 PST Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:02:10 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <ep7bo9+42f9@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <798461.21593.qm@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.90 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: SV: [conculture] Re: European enclaves in India X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=W1gC8R32bqwrMBfNj9VchiizfuGKWyF-151hFjN39e--1wo2 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Ok, thanks for clearing all that up. > > However, I'm still wandering as to why Bombay > is Kemrese and Madras is > Scottish *there*. Surely it would be the other > way around (since IB is > a strongly convergent timeline and all)? Part of the fun of IB is trying to explain how things got to be the way they are. If it seems odd that Bombay is Kemrese rather than Scottish, an explanation would be in order at some point in time. No one has yet tackled these colonies. The only British Indian territory to be explained at all is the comparatively large Malabar Coast, which comes to us via the Oriental War. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 24 07:33:05 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 65264 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 15:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2007 15:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.216) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 15:27:28 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 15:26:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 15:26:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 15:26:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:26:01 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ep7tq9+763e@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <798461.21593.qm@web52007.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.216 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: SV: [conculture] Re: European enclaves in India X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=13u9HJjkN5EJSzemjFdYre0jJ0NES7oCugwLA2lW1WBh3QwW0Gh9XQ X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> > wrote: > > > Ok, thanks for clearing all that up. > > > > However, I'm still wandering as to why Bombay > > is Kemrese and Madras is > > Scottish *there*. Surely it would be the other > > way around (since IB is > > a strongly convergent timeline and all)? > > Part of the fun of IB is trying to explain how > things got to be the way they are. If it seems > odd that Bombay is Kemrese rather than Scottish, > an explanation would be in order at some point in > time. No one has yet tackled these colonies. The > only British Indian territory to be explained at > all is the comparatively large Malabar Coast, > which comes to us via the Oriental War. > > Padraic > Ok, perhaps a proposal is in order. Gather yee round all who would listen. Historical British East Indian Enclaves/Trade Posts - England *Masulipatnam (1611) - Tributary of Kalinga *Surat (1612) - Tributary of the Mughal Empire *Bengkulu (1685) - Tributary of Xrivizaja *Calcutta (1690) - Tributary of Bengal *Cuddalore (1759) - Tributary to Karnataka Kemr *Madras (1639) - Tributary of Karnataka *Hoogli (1658) - Tributary of Bengal *Vizagpatam (1682) - Tributary of Kalinga Scotland *Bombay (1668) - Tributary of the Mughal Empire (N.B. This lists could change) Ok, so most of the trading factories are sold back to whoever the FK state bought it from in the first place. For more information see - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/European_settlement s_in_India_1501-1739.png http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/india_shepherd_1923 .jpg The FK states decide to keep one enclave in India each - *England - Calcutta *Kemr - Madras *Scotland - Bombay As per *here*, after Charles II marries Catherine de Braganza in 1662, he gains Bombay as part of her dowry. Since Scotland doesn't have any Indian enclaves at this point, but England already has Surat (1612), so Charles gives Bombay to the newly-created Scottish East India Company (which remains its only major trading post). And, of course the Malabar Coast is annexed from China following GWII, with Calicut going to England and Cochin going to Kemr (is that right?).
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 10:19:55 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22917 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 18:14:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2007 18:14:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 18:14:24 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 18:11:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 18:11:48 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:11:47 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ep87h3+uh7p@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eolvnn+7512@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.104.141.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=6H3n16iCLLEqTt1mc8eCiRGT_G0_dv2D0AzOGwkWzZSC8HK2I1f- X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@...> wrote: >[snip] >>>and Honoré Philippe Louvain. >[snip] >H.P.Louvain was a Louisianne author who created "Jacques Cartier de >Mars" Is *there's* H.P.L. more an alt.Lovecraft, or is *there*'s creator of "Jacques Cartier de Mars" more an alt.ERBurroughs? Who _are_ *there*'s alt.Lovecraft and alt.Burroughs? Didn't someone *there* write "Greystoke" or some such?
From zahir@brainlink.com Wed Jan 24 13:41:00 2007 Return-Path: <zahir@brainlink.com> X-Sender: zahir@brainlink.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85017 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2007 21:36:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2007 21:36:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.184) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2007 21:36:27 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 21:35:19 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 21:35:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2007 21:35:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:35:19 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ep8jen+cvov@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <ep87h3+uh7p@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.184 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.78.98.27 From: "David" <zahir@brainlink.com> Subject: Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48429920; y=G2jlVN7r_R-rkZTnpiHColGfh6QCPTxftsOSaWQQ-VLgFA X-Yahoo-Profile: zahir13 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@> wrote: > >[snip] > >>>and Honor?Philippe Louvain. > >[snip] > >H.P.Louvain was a Louisianne author who created "Jacques Cartier de > >Mars" > > Is *there's* H.P.L. more an alt.Lovecraft, or is *there*'s creator > of "Jacques Cartier de Mars" more an alt.ERBurroughs? > > Who _are_ *there*'s alt.Lovecraft and alt.Burroughs? > > Didn't someone *there* write "Greystoke" or some such? To my knowledge, nothing analogous to our "Lovecraft" or "Tarzan" has been discovered vis-a-vis Il Bethisad. Louvain was a person who bore *some* resemblence to our H.P.Lovecraft but was clearly neither him nor Edgar Rice Burroughs. For that matter, Jacques Cartier bears only a superficial resemblence to "John Carter of Mars." Zahir
From conculture@yahoogroups.com Thu Jan 25 06:29:04 2007 Return-Path: <notify@yahoogroups.com> Received: (qmail 24252 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2007 14:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2007 14:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.117) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2007 14:26:07 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2007 14:24:14 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2007 14:24:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2007 14:24:14 -0000 Date: 25 Jan 2007 14:24:12 -0000 Message-ID: <1169735052.8865.48394.w119@yahoogroups.com> X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Application: files X-Yahoo-Group-Post: system From: conculture@yahoogroups.com To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Subject: New file uploaded to conculture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the conculture group. File : /Li Alam/Conservation in Li Alam.doc Uploaded by : geoffhorswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conculture/files/Li%20Alam/Conservation%20in%20Li%20Alam.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, geoffhorswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk>
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Thu Jan 25 18:31:23 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39862 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2007 02:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2007 02:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.111) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2007 02:26:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 02:25:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 02:25:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 02:25:11 -0000 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:25:10 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epboq6+c4r7@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <ep8jen+cvov@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.111 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: IB: Juliette Verne? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=_o_Eo-QeBeWexZ_4NiQvOyPQoSjrTejAda2YXmyMdXBh9SUC1g X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 So can I turn an Edgar Rice Burroughs analogue whom I mentioned in the discussion of R. Hengist Ryder into a pencil magnate? Burroughs- Prime worked briefly in a pencil factory. --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@> > wrote: > > > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "David" <zahir@> wrote: > > >[snip] > > >>>and Honor?Philippe Louvain. > > >[snip] > > >H.P.Louvain was a Louisianne author who created "Jacques Cartier de > > >Mars" > > > > Is *there's* H.P.L. more an alt.Lovecraft, or is *there*'s creator > > of "Jacques Cartier de Mars" more an alt.ERBurroughs? > > > > Who _are_ *there*'s alt.Lovecraft and alt.Burroughs? > > > > Didn't someone *there* write "Greystoke" or some such? > > To my knowledge, nothing analogous to our "Lovecraft" or "Tarzan" has > been discovered vis-a-vis Il Bethisad. > > Louvain was a person who bore *some* resemblence to our H.P.Lovecraft > but was clearly neither him nor Edgar Rice Burroughs. For that matter, > Jacques Cartier bears only a superficial resemblence to "John Carter of > Mars." > > Zahir >
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 19:31:31 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46437 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2007 19:18:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Jan 2007 19:18:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.121) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2007 19:18:24 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2007 19:18:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2007 19:18:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Jan 2007 19:18:06 -0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:18:04 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epavpc+qvbq@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1169735052.8865.48394.w119@yahoogroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.121 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 209.104.141.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: New file uploaded to conculture X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=owaBXduahUquC1Zh6MnAn65Ob4D-fFLsW0AolMGCgf4xl9ZlF_A6 X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell > File : /Li Alam/Conservation in Li Alam.doc > Uploaded by : geoffhorswood <geoffhorswood@...> > Description : > You can access this file at the URL: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conculture/files/Li%20Alam/Conservation% 20in%20Li%20Alam.doc > geoffhorswood <geoffhorswood@...> Very interesting. Thanks.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Fri Jan 26 03:08:07 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27199 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2007 02:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2007 02:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2007 02:32:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 02:31:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 02:31:44 -0000 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 02:31:42 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epbp6e+ev8t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosmic Digest: Jan. 29-Feb. 4 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=Vy-E3R4DOuNKev5PHKvjZiaOy_cO-e5hPJnDBprrp1wzGsRACw X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 Week 5 (Jan. 29-Feb. 4) 29 (Homo Habilior World-2) Melisande continued to speak at Popopoyoll: "The lead ape-man fell into the black dust, but several more sub- humans perished before I caught sight of Iwarssohn and his trusty rifle, with its finely polish butt and gleaming barrel I could have heaved a sigh of relief, were it not for my weariness. I knew he would recue me and his wife Lothilde would tend to my injuries until I had recovered. He did remove the carcase of the leader from the place where it imprisoned even in its death, but then he glowered at me and chastised me. " 30 (Homo Habilior World-1) Lothilde embraced her mountain of a husband, whose demeanor was broken and feminized by grief, and said "I, too, loved Melisande as a daughter." Gwenfrewi, the only one of the three humans who had not known her, asked, "If it is not too great a question, how did she die?" 31 (FIU) LAOJINSHAN CITY, Central Zone of Jinguo - Assemblyman Xian, the aged and widowed interim leader of the rump state composed by the Central Zone of Jinguo, has admitted that his new mistress is the infamous Concubine Dai. Dai came to public attention under the tyranny of Governor Ahn as a defendant in a conspiracy against the state. She earned her title of `Concubine' at that time. Dai was present at the murder of the governor, and later became the special companion of Archbishop Kong before he abused her kinsmen. FEBRUARY 1 (Merfolk World) The Guard has arrested Ákos, son of Iszák for the sale of forty- three merfolk to Travelers and other shiftless mendicants. 2 (FIU -Burma) "Have you heard?" asked one guard of the Queen's Own to his companion. "The Queen herself is coming here to inspire her own people to victory." 3 (Earth-Tasmanian Devil) "Pranvera! Pranvera! Where are you? You can come out now!" The timid nurse emerged from her hiding place into the chaotic topography of the after-battle. The hospital was full of wounded, dying, and defunct patients, whose facial cancers were leaking pus from the puncture wounds of their assailants, their fellow patients. Pranvera sighed. One skirmish, and all her efforts at controlling the facial cancer pandemic had vanished. "There you are, Pranvera," exclaimed her friend Luljeta, as she embraced the nurse in a non-hostile manner. "What are you waiting for?" her other friend, Blerta, asked, excitedly showing her razor-sharp incisors. "We need to help these people." "What's the point?" Pranvera replied. "They'll just fight again and reinfect each other. This world is doomed. Nobody here can save it." "I wouldn't despair just yet." "Who said that?" 4 (Detective World) Time: late 1930's Place: Arizona The sheriff wrung his hands under his desk as he looked back and forth between the three sets of youthful detectives. "If you were in separate towns on separate cases," he said, "I would trust any of you. You seem ineffective, however, as a congregation. I am reluctant to send any of you away, since that would make it look as though I were deciding the guilt or innocence of the suspect."
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Fri Jan 26 04:00:46 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57729 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2007 07:15:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2007 07:15:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.170) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2007 07:15:08 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n8.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 07:14:12 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 07:14:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 07:14:12 -0000 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:14:12 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epc9o4+nfd3@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.170 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Week 5, 2007: Jan. 29-Feb. 4 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=YprTuopcAEztn6YNa9JF6kz1vH2SSpz-ziBv4UVaXE6azTRSRA X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 Week 5 (Jan. 29-Feb. 4) 29 (Homo Habilior World-2) Melisande continued to speak at Popopoyoll: "The lead ape-man fell into the black dust, but several more sub- humans perished before I caught sight of Iwarssohn and his trusty rifle, with its finely polish butt and gleaming barrel I could have heaved a sigh of relief, were it not for my weariness. I knew he would recue me and his wife Lothilde would tend to my injuries until I had recovered. He did remove the carcase of the leader from the place where it imprisoned even in its death, but then he glowered at me and chastised me. " 30 (Homo Habilior World-1) Lothilde embraced her mountain of a husband, whose demeanor was broken and feminized by grief, and said "I, too, loved Melisande as a daughter." Gwenfrewi, the only one of the three humans who had not known her, asked, "If it is not too great a question, how did she die?" 31 (FIU) LAOJINSHAN CITY, Central Zone of Jinguo - Assemblyman Xian, the aged and widowed interim leader of the rump state composed by the Central Zone of Jinguo, has admitted that his new mistress is the infamous Concubine Dai. Dai came to public attention under the tyranny of Governor Ahn as a defendant in a conspiracy against the state. She earned her title of `Concubine' at that time. Dai was present at the murder of the governor, and later became the special companion of Archbishop Kong before he abused her kinsmen. FEBRUARY 1 (Merfolk World) The Guard has arrested Ákos, son of Iszák for the sale of forty-three merfolk to Travelers and other shiftless mendicants. 2 (FIU -Burma) "Have you heard?" asked one guard of the Queen's Own to his companion. "The Queen herself is coming here to inspire her own people to victory." 3 (Earth-Tasmanian Devil) "Pranvera! Pranvera! Where are you? You can come out now!" The timid nurse emerged from her hiding place into the chaotic topography of the after-battle. The hospital was full of wounded, dying, and defunct patients, whose facial cancers were leaking pus from the puncture wounds of their assailants, their fellow patients. Pranvera sighed. One skirmish, and all her efforts at controlling the facial cancer pandemic had vanished. "There you are, Pranvera," exclaimed her friend Luljeta, as she embraced the nurse in a non-hostile manner. "What are you waiting for?" her other friend, Blerta, asked, excitedly showing her razor-sharp incisors. "We need to help these people." "What's the point?" Pranvera replied. "They'll just fight again and reinfect each other. This world is doomed. Nobody here can save it." "I wouldn't despair just yet." "Who said that?" 4 (Detective World) Time: late 1930's Place: Arizona The sheriff wrung his hands under his desk as he looked back and forth between the three sets of youthful detectives. "If you were in separate towns on separate cases," he said, "I would trust any of you. You seem ineffective, however, as a congregation. I am reluctant to send any of you away, since that would make it look as though I were deciding the guilt or innocence of the suspect."
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Fri Jan 26 05:07:36 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77727 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2007 07:18:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2007 07:18:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2007 07:18:40 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 07:18:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 07:18:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 07:18:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 07:18:23 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epc9vv+nlns@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.167 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=MeiRhPTeme38IjQThZBw6L0_mhbrH-RzZJ16ui7yUh8Mw2-Low X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 Behold Diacosmica, "urbs interversalis", weaving between the cosms floating in the Diacosm like air bubbles suspended in water. Its origins are lost in non-history, and beyond its walls lie the threat of monstrous beasts, obligate acosmics, who desire nothing more than the destruction of this drop of being in the sea of potentiality. The watchers on the wall drive back these beasts and thrust them into the gaps between the caelomeres encrusted upon the cosms, reducing the predators from vast beyond measure to sub-quantal size. The citizens whom the watchers on the wall defend are a select polity, for not all cosms have exits to the Diacosm; some are encased by caelomeres, others have no life left when they die.
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 03:26:02 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51029 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2007 17:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Jan 2007 17:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.112) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2007 17:57:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 17:57:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 17:57:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2007 17:57:57 -0000 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:57:55 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epdff3+lqj1@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <epc9vv+nlns@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.112 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 198.111.161.114 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=_GQFK1cYIByAmk9VZgxjvGqo5VOIAt8DeJocKpQ-oH8GRkWmQQmC X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@...> wrote: >Behold Diacosmica, "urbs interversalis", weaving between the cosms >floating in the Diacosm like air bubbles suspended in water. Its >origins are lost in non-history, and beyond its walls lie the threat of >monstrous beasts, obligate acosmics, who desire nothing more than the >destruction of this drop of being in the sea of potentiality. The >watchers on the wall drive back these beasts and thrust them into the >gaps between the caelomeres encrusted upon the cosms, reducing the >predators from vast beyond measure to sub-quantal size. The citizens >whom the watchers on the wall defend are a select polity, for not all >cosms have exits to the Diacosm; some are encased by caelomeres, others >have no life left when they die. Wow! Diacosmica is a little like "the Carrier" in the Authority comix? The Diacosm is a little like "the Bleed" in those comix?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 06:49:57 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19017 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2007 14:49:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2007 14:49:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52006.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.89) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2007 14:49:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 71906 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jan 2007 14:47:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: v9m0TREVM1nhbEppsdrz_Hj2B6g_pNjdzTirdC2cFH_YqSxzRJvMsSIIHsdJ6njBcrsIVOWZRO1BX6MpLJU65E4QNMdHP9iS4hKjO7feuSzG2ocWSmiRZnFk5_t23vpoPgJzuN5iBMt6.03gqLav Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:47:08 PST Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 06:47:08 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <epdff3+lqj1@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <243054.67802.qm@web52006.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.89 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=_TlBkCVOn1G7913yA8_AqaV1z5no90r7wqQYo_8JT7faI9sw X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "habarakhe4" > <Anthony.Miles@...> > wrote: > >Behold Diacosmica, "urbs interversalis", > weaving between the cosms > >floating in the Diacosm like air bubbles > suspended in water. Its > >origins are lost in non-history, and beyond > its walls lie the threat > of > >monstrous beasts, obligate acosmics, who > desire nothing more than the > >destruction of this drop of being in the sea > of potentiality. The > >watchers on the wall drive back these beasts > and thrust them into the > >gaps between the caelomeres encrusted upon the > cosms, reducing the > >predators from vast beyond measure to > sub-quantal size. The citizens > >whom the watchers on the wall defend are a > select polity, for not all > >cosms have exits to the Diacosm; some are > encased by caelomeres, > others > >have no life left when they die. > > Wow! > Diacosmica is a little like "the Carrier" in > the Authority comix? > The Diacosm is a little like "the Bleed" in > those comix? The idea of the "interversal city" reminds me a lot of the great city of the Teonim, which appears at times on an island in the Black Sea and at other times is Elsewhere. The idea of the "obligate acosmics" who desire the destruction of this drop of existence remind me of the Things that skulk about beyond the fringes of reality in the Discworld series. Padraic > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 12:25:33 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87245 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2007 20:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2007 20:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.118) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2007 20:25:27 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2007 20:24:31 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2007 20:24:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2007 20:24:31 -0000 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:24:31 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epgcdv+kgkn@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <243054.67802.qm@web52006.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.118 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.79.127.133 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=hqftCb-JmiNpyudC9ypkraXVxLU_Ph4nVRrxpHnx_fPCZTR1bnoS X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: >[snip] > The idea of the "interversal city" reminds me a > lot of the great city of the Teonim, which > appears at times on an island in the Black Sea > and at other times is Elsewhere. Nerver heard of it before! Where can I find out more? > The idea of the > "obligate acosmics" who desire the destruction of > this drop of existence remind me of the Things > that skulk about beyond the fringes of reality in > the Discworld series. Or of the Watcheers In the Shadows from the H.P. Lovecraft mythos. Or of wherever that giant spider in Mordor came from.
From plikma@hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 12:56:47 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36819 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2007 20:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Jan 2007 20:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.105) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2007 20:56:45 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2007 20:56:02 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2007 20:56:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Jan 2007 20:56:02 -0000 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:55:59 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epge8v+ki0t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.105 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: IB: Correct Britheing? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=A4svDSHo7pomi7L_7w7qd2-H_yLBTokoIWKOPLDyzgvO2w X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas Is this correct brithenig? (Eo) su lla best et eo wa k'log can. In particular do you need the initial Eo?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 18:49:56 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39591 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2007 02:49:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2007 02:49:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52002.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.85) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2007 02:49:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 68149 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jan 2007 02:49:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: wb0SNcEVM1kY8LB3MGx9mxM1Ui5S_42ruB40ubSH_F8DWXSgQdxJHeerydNUwJ1qkI2Bt4nbz5p8E71Abf2DJRgPQtu4REIb7C8sux7WAL78FOgzWQImr_m1wh_HeqKuUfz72MwFItlmV11Grf9f2P1XJSn4QUcuS_SPgw8WBBLrxhhln9OW Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:49:51 PST Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:49:51 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <epgcdv+kgkn@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <105848.66243.qm@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.85 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=UK04WnUM99QqpBOe6junPkMqo0cZ4VJm2mGXzaxCtPLW3wsL X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown > <elemtilas@...> wrote: > >[snip] > > The idea of the "interversal city" reminds me > a > > lot of the great city of the Teonim, which > > appears at times on an island in the Black > Sea > > and at other times is Elsewhere. > > Nerver heard of it before! Really!? Sally Caves is one of the greats among us -- she is an accomplished scholar, conlinguistician and conculturer. Search for "Teonaht" and you can easily find her conlang. There doesn't seem to be much about the people that speak Teonaht on her site, though she does mention how their city appears and disappears. She's also readily accessible by email, and sometimes appears and disappears from this list! ;) She might be more active on Conlang. > Where can I find > out more? > > > The idea of the > > "obligate acosmics" who desire the > destruction of > > this drop of existence remind me of the > Things > > that skulk about beyond the fringes of > reality in > > the Discworld series. > > Or of the Watcheers In the Shadows from the > H.P. Lovecraft mythos. > Or of wherever that giant spider in Mordor came > from. Well, Ungoloiant was a Maia spirit, as I recall -- like Gandalf and Saruman themselves! The lesser spiders, like Shelob, were her offspring. Therefore, they are all created beings and appropriate to the created world. I get the idea that the Things and the "obligate acosmics", er, "exist" outside of the confines of reality, seeking to destroy it for reasons of their own. If Ungoliant and Shelob desired to destroy, at least they were doing it from within the confines of reality. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 18:59:33 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68712 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2007 02:59:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2007 02:59:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52003.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.86) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2007 02:59:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 44971 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jan 2007 02:59:30 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: w65rcysVM1mtDz_Yi2JzFG509QMc6IkZ05arb5yooSY12XEBKNw9cDrT4yVoDXtcBG4_MlwoK4FVGIdkM_m8QcgYrmtZU22KbqV1nM9KcA4UT5dzUTG1f4L2k5Smzc8amyWw7iCLcVY- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52003.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:59:30 PST Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:59:30 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <epge8v+ki0t@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <648894.38608.qm@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.86 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Correct Britheing? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=au8YrQmJQwnFMXy0Hm-H0HXzZl_wUl2z078C7jWocz9WvtFC X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > Is this correct brithenig? > > (Eo) su lla best et eo wa k'log can. > "I am the beast, and I go where when/dog/reed." Looks right, except I'm not sure what the "can" refers to. > In particular do you need the initial Eo? I would hazard the _guess_ that, at least in some situations and in some registers, the first eo can be dropped. In the same way English speakers often drop pronouns in some situations. I think in usual, they are obligatory in B due to the otherwise indistinguishability of the forms. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Sat Jan 27 20:28:20 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21773 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2007 04:28:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2007 04:28:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2007 04:28:19 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id BE207144005; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:28:15 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25C86144009 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:28:15 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14361-02 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:28:12 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90C1144005 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:28:11 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 17:28:01 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <648894.38608.qm@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <648894.38608.qm@web52003.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200701281728.01267.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Correct Britheing? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=jcWncH8M9g7kBfHClxT_pj5VMs_wbySfpofTJsNG2vCh0RcfxvduLfGT X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir On Sunday 28 January 2007 3:59 pm, Padraic Brown wrote: > --- plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Is this correct brithenig? > > > > (Eo) su lla best et eo wa k'log can. > > "I am the beast, and I go where when/dog/reed." > Looks right, except I'm not sure what the "can" > refers to. > Feminine nouns are affected by soft mutation so the first clause should be _eo su lla fest..._. I would translate the second clause as _e-dd eo wa'll llog (ke)..._. The relatives are embedded under verbs on the Brithenig home page, and _llog_ is not fully described elsewhere. I'm not sure what the "can" here refers to either, and will need further information. This is one of the unfortuate things about a weakness for ambiguous language. > > In particular do you need the initial Eo? > > I would hazard the _guess_ that, at least in some > situations and in some registers, the first eo > can be dropped. In the same way English speakers > often drop pronouns in some situations. I think > in usual, they are obligatory in B due to the > otherwise indistinguishability of the forms. > It is my opinion that Brithenig is not a pro-drop language, and needs the initial eo, unless, of course, you want it to be translated as "am the beast". - andrew.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sat Jan 27 20:52:02 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13031 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2007 04:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2007 04:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2007 04:52:02 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 04:51:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 04:51:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 04:51:59 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 04:51:57 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epha5d+q2hf@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <epdff3+lqj1@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=A7ePuN-sk-AJj8pcs81tIlwc99wUZjXPHJt4_jZiepQaaNoi_A X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@> > wrote: > >Behold Diacosmica, "urbs interversalis", weaving between the cosms > >floating in the Diacosm like air bubbles suspended in water. Its > >origins are lost in non-history, and beyond its walls lie the threat > of > >monstrous beasts, obligate acosmics, who desire nothing more than the > >destruction of this drop of being in the sea of potentiality. The > >watchers on the wall drive back these beasts and thrust them into the > >gaps between the caelomeres encrusted upon the cosms, reducing the > >predators from vast beyond measure to sub-quantal size. The citizens > >whom the watchers on the wall defend are a select polity, for not all > >cosms have exits to the Diacosm; some are encased by caelomeres, > others > >have no life left when they die. > > Wow! > Diacosmica is a little like "the Carrier" in the Authority comix? > The Diacosm is a little like "the Bleed" in those comix? > I have been ODing on Warren Ellis, yes Planetary and the Authority (I have a crush on Jenny Sparks). But Diacosmica is a ethnocosmically diverse cities - it's more Blishian and 'Cities in Flight' than anything else. The idea of the Diacosm is more that of water, with cosms as gas bubbles (which suggests the possibility of a Reality-Vent analgous to the Marianas Trench). Not every cosm spill sapients in the Diacosm. The ones which never "end" don't; the ones that are bereft of life at the eschaton don't; the ones that are enveloped by caelomeres don't. What are caelomeres? From the inside of a cosm, they are the theological-existential equivalent of telomeres; from the Diacosm, they are ecologically similar to barnacles. Oh, and don't forget the hermit crabs that use nroken cosmic eggs as their shell, and the parasite wasps that lay their eggs in the 'body' of a cosm so that the young can eat their way out of a 'paralyzed' cosm.
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 10:38:36 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54533 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2007 18:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2007 18:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2007 18:36:11 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 18:35:54 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 18:35:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 18:35:54 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:35:52 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epiqe8+kthn@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <105848.66243.qm@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.217 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 198.111.165.230 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=yGh6ay8WQvMseOQ4Ri53qEKVs71JGm9s05snZ-bIgInsuUteA8o9 X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: >--- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> wrote: >>---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown >><elemtilas@> wrote: >>>[snip] >>>The idea of the "interversal city" reminds me a >>>lot of the great city of the Teonim, which >>>appears at times on an island in the Black Sea >>>and at other times is Elsewhere. >> >>Never heard of it before! > >Really!? Sally Caves is one of the greats among >us -- she is an accomplished scholar, >conlinguistician and conculturer. Search for >"Teonaht" and you can easily find her conlang. >There doesn't seem to be much about the people >that speak Teonaht on her site, though she does >mention how their city appears and disappears. >She's also readily accessible by email, and >sometimes appears and disappears from this list! >;) She might be more active on Conlang. > >>Where can I find out more? Somehow I'd heard of Teonaht without hearing of "the great city of the Teonim". Yes, Sally Caves has been active relatively recently on both CONLANG- L and on the Zompist BBoard. Thanks for the reference. >>> The idea of the >>> "obligate acosmics" who desire the destruction of >>> this drop of existence remind me of the Things >>> that skulk about beyond the fringes of reality in >>> the Discworld series. >> >>Or of the Watchers In the Shadows from the >>H.P. Lovecraft mythos. >>Or of wherever that giant spider in Mordor came >>from. > > Well, Ungoloiant was a Maia spirit, as I recall > -- like Gandalf and Saruman themselves! The > lesser spiders, like Shelob, were her offspring. > Therefore, they are all created beings and > appropriate to the created world. I get the idea > that the Things and the "obligate acosmics", er, > "exist" outside of the confines of reality, > seeking to destroy it for reasons of their own. > If Ungoliant and Shelob desired to destroy, at > least they were doing it from within the confines > of reality. > > Padraic That's all true, as far as I know. To me, though, the big difference was in the word "obligate". All of those inhabitants of "the primordial sea of chaos", (if I can borrow from Ancient Near Eastern mythology -- or of the uncreated "spaces" between universes, if I can't), can actually stand to enter a cosmos; they just want to put an end to them all, whether because they can't live in them permanently, or because they just don't like them. Theophilus's "obligate acosmics" seem to be unable to abide in a cosmos without injury to themselves.
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 10:43:04 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 39836 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2007 18:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2007 18:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.214) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2007 18:43:04 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 18:43:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 18:43:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 18:43:03 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:43:02 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epiqrm+bmsd@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <epha5d+q2hf@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.214 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 198.111.165.230 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=UYloqjhmRQfQuaecGEon1byODoJhHdA652LAKvXK_duq88hQygQE X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@...> wrote: >[snip] >I have been ODing on Warren Ellis, yes Planetary and the Authority >(I have a crush on Jenny Sparks). She'd be 107 if she were still alive! And Jenny Quantum is only 7. >But Diacosmica is a ethnocosmically >diverse cities - it's more Blishian and 'Cities in Flight' than >anything else. At least someone else read it. >The idea of the Diacosm is more that of water, with cosms as gas >bubbles (which suggests the possibility of a Reality-Vent analgous >to the Marianas Trench). Not every cosm spill sapients in the >Diacosm. Do you mean, "Not every cosm spills sapients into the Diacosm."? >The ones which never "end" don't; >the ones that are bereft of life at the eschaton don't; What's the eschaton? the end of the cosm, or the end of the polycosm? >the ones that are enveloped by caelomeres don't. > >What are caelomeres? From the inside of a cosm, they are the >theological-existential equivalent of telomeres; from the Diacosm, >they are ecologically similar to barnacles. > >Oh, and don't forget the hermit crabs that use unbroken cosmic eggs >as their shell, and the parasite wasps that lay their eggs in >the 'body' of a cosm so that the young can eat their way out of >a 'paralyzed' cosm. Terry Pratchett's stories about the Wee Free Men have "parasitic universes". May not have been what you meant. (What ideas! And so many of them! Do you have some kind of mental disease? If so, how can I catch it?)
From plikma@hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 11:32:03 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78760 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2007 19:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2007 19:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2007 19:32:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 19:30:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Jan 2007 19:30:43 -0000 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:30:40 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epitl0+n1ui@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.51 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: IB: Chemical Elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=RAg1FXh9nMpGEeaeIUsbRxNUjB0juHHqRWem-DdyaXrkwA X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas I think a lot of chemical elements may have different names in IB for various reasons; 1) 17-18th century elements. E.g. Hydrogen and Oxygen. I'd be hard-pressed to explain why these would have different names unless perhaps they are less latin and more Greek - has this been known? 2) Elements named after people and places e.g. Polonium. These could well have different names e.g. there is no Poland maybe it's called Venedium or something; does Marie Curie exist in IB? 3) The Cold War naming controversy. I'm pretty sure this didn't happen there because the Cold War didn't happen but I don't know if the three letter solution would have been used *there* - I get the impression IB has "poetic" tendencies about such matters.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 13:49:05 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68012 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2007 21:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Jan 2007 21:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52002.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.85) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Jan 2007 21:49:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 55878 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jan 2007 21:48:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Zkt.sQUVM1miZauRJgsbYPqFanSwn5BSGEi2R4tAUzPJyMih.II6lkdk5Qm3_M3kv7z3fiQujMZ3RITimPBqoYrD_OCd4NjjxbVBd6_pIrG6HUFKXXfekugPHa6VzKeTeVb39CVGv.1Ke6BmbKAM5EvntRh_gom0HNovQKNqm_1zfAXRvZYA Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52002.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:48:59 PST Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:48:59 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <epiqe8+kthn@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <414922.55184.qm@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.85 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=do-ysIqojEXoj95T9wUUV1Fbur0cZm64i_gwbkpjqjj3LfYT X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> The idea of the > >>> "obligate acosmics" who desire the > >>> destruction of > >>> this drop of existence remind me of the > >>> Things > >>> that skulk about beyond the fringes of > >>> reality in the Discworld series. > >> > >>Or of the Watchers In the Shadows from the > >>H.P. Lovecraft mythos. > >>Or of wherever that giant spider in Mordor > >>came from. > > > > Well, Ungoloiant was a Maia spirit, as I > > recall > > -- like Gandalf and Saruman themselves! The > > lesser spiders, like Shelob, were her > > offspring. > > Therefore, they are all created beings and > > appropriate to the created world. I get the > > idea > > that the Things and the "obligate acosmics", > > er, > > "exist" outside of the confines of reality, > > seeking to destroy it for reasons of their > > own. > > If Ungoliant and Shelob desired to destroy, > > at > > least they were doing it from within the > > confines of reality. > > That's all true, as far as I know. > To me, though, the big difference was in the > word "obligate". Indeed. To me it signifies that they can't bide within or abide in general cosmoses. It seems that you're thinking along the same lines. > All of those inhabitants of "the primordial sea > of chaos", (if I can > borrow from Ancient Near Eastern mythology -- > or of the > uncreated "spaces" between universes, if I > can't), can actually stand > to enter a cosmos; they just want to put an end > to them all, whether > because they can't live in them permanently, or > because they just don't like them. Entering a cosmos is a dangerous thing, however. Note that Gandalf and like were not able to reveal their true selves -- they had to work within guises appropriate to the world. > Theophilus's "obligate acosmics" seem to be > unable to abide in a > cosmos without injury to themselves. A good reason to desire the destruction of a cosmos! Padraic > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From Montrei13@gmail.com Sun Jan 28 16:27:16 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40900 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2007 00:27:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2007 00:27:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.189) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2007 00:27:08 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id n28so1707781nfc for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.34.17 with SMTP id m17mr8528265nfj.1170030426848; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.208.6 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:27:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7b9d11410701281627r7ee4ff52m2f2a9de3c78a1265@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:27:06 -0800 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <epitl0+n1ui@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <epitl0+n1ui@eGroups.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.182.189 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Chemical Elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=jWqVeX6gDxaZLv0AY2YIXLW6WuAeh5d8m0dUJSTD19RXE-LG X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 1/28/07, plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > > 2) Elements named after people and places e.g. Polonium. These could > well have different names e.g. there is no Poland maybe it's called > Venedium or something; does Marie Curie exist in IB? I say keep Californicum only because Alta California does exist and that's like OMG a totally rad element name :)
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Sun Jan 28 19:16:17 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31023 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2007 03:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2007 03:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2007 03:16:00 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 7CE07144005; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:15:24 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C2E144009 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:15:20 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31870-01 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:15:18 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05E3A144005 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:15:18 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:15:13 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <414922.55184.qm@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <414922.55184.qm@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200701291615.13776.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=-W8MaWIZQNWCHLV1GNvNPI1Ip7HDWHF8yza5WG7YmMV8OfC3SJVbJrH6 X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir On Monday 29 January 2007 10:48 am, Padraic Brown wrote: > Entering a cosmos is a dangerous thing, however. > Note that Gandalf and like were not able to > reveal their true selves -- they had to work > within guises appropriate to the world. > I would have thought that the Blessed Realm and its demizens was at least partially intregal to its own cosm(ogony), until the end of the third age. "All irregularities will be handled by the forces controlling each dimension. Transuranic, heavy elements may not be used where there is life. Medium atomic weights are available: Gold, Lead, Copper, Jet, Diamond, Radium, Sapphire, Silver and Steel." - andrew.
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Sun Jan 28 19:50:45 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5985 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2007 03:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2007 03:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.244) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2007 03:50:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 03:50:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 03:50:37 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 03:50:35 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epjqub+5djs@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <epitl0+n1ui@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 89.180.25.254 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: IB: Chemical Elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=ftjBOi4LcClPexh-2xCxsGW1TVtmUkoeon7eAOHn7xesRVoMdlVh X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno Venedium makes sense. Probably not only some of the chemical elements would have different names *there* so as some of the scientific names of animals and plants. Pedro Moderno --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "plikmas" <plikma@...> wrote: > > I think a lot of chemical elements may have different names in IB for > various reasons; > > 1) 17-18th century elements. E.g. Hydrogen and Oxygen. I'd be > hard-pressed to explain why these would have different names unless > perhaps they are less latin and more Greek - has this been known? > > 2) Elements named after people and places e.g. Polonium. These could > well have different names e.g. there is no Poland maybe it's called > Venedium or something; does Marie Curie exist in IB? > > > 3) The Cold War naming controversy. I'm pretty sure this didn't happen > there because the Cold War didn't happen but I don't know if the three > letter solution would have been used *there* - I get the impression IB > has "poetic" tendencies about such matters. >
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Sun Jan 28 22:22:50 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26413 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2007 06:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2007 06:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.72) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2007 06:20:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 10850 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jan 2007 06:20:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 4a9XlyEVM1n_GdoqHAPXxO1jL3vGv1cEcA_KE2GFN3oWKlrrOKh1Sab_JS.zIhXKxXQuaRTgzCceNQE699VDJzvNIpLPm0E0P23fKNVzQ2jE887B4O94zLgpF1C3GU2d5kCcd01e Received: from [65.65.223.212] by web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:20:38 GMT Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:20:38 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <epjqub+5djs@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <371847.9946.qm@web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Chemical Elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=LCrgK-CjyFRgkV-_Mmx4f4Qmq5hGRczZ8mBkjY0Ly0koUIfBPJ-f4g X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Pedro Moderno <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> wrote: > Venedium makes sense. Wouldn't "Venedium" get confused and conflated with Vanadium in many languages? (Supplementary: What are the origins of the name of element 23 *here?) > Probably not only some of the > chemical > elements would have different names *there* so as > some of the > scientific names of animals and plants. Yes. Li Alam has different names of chemical elements, scientific names of organisms, and some few of the elementary particles that they have discovered have different names too. As regards animals and plants, Li Alam has the same tradition of binomial scientific names, but some different traditions. More Greek is used than Latin, and they also incorporate a little Latinised Arabic here and there. And when there's a scientific naming controversy (eg a la Brontosaurus/Apatosaurus or Eohippus/Hyracotherium), the scientific community can usually be relied on to be a little more poetic. Geoff ======= One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Mon Jan 29 07:18:02 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 98997 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2007 15:11:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2007 15:11:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2007 15:11:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 15:11:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 15:11:43 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:11:40 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epl2rc+ptcr@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <371847.9946.qm@web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: IB: Chemical Elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=lH9Bw4YXx95wionzPyeVSVM_VJzcOiDmZcDtVuo6P300v0cJHVIWaA X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > --- Pedro Moderno <pedromoderno@...> wrote: > > > Venedium makes sense. > > Wouldn't "Venedium" get confused and conflated with > Vanadium in many languages? > (Supplementary: What are the origins of the name of > element 23 *here?) > According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium) Vanadium is named after the Scandinavian goddess Vanadis (aka Freya) because Vanadium has several multicoloured chemical compounds. Well, you did ask.
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 13:57:52 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55203 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2007 21:57:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2007 21:57:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.107) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2007 21:57:45 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 21:57:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 21:57:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 21:57:44 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:57:42 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eplqkm+pkal@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <414922.55184.qm@web52002.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.107 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=WZ0p7Pd9chOUYgFB3N27EK9j1rxFFpL9RjYHcjBFzUlZ4J7fUbXE X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: >---tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> wrote: >[snip] >>That's all true, as far as I know. >>To me, though, the big difference was in the word "obligate". > >Indeed. To me it signifies that they can't bide within or abide in >general cosmoses. It seems that you're thinking along the same lines. Yes, it does. >>All of those inhabitants of "the primordial sea of chaos", (if I >>can borrow from Ancient Near Eastern mythology -- or of the >>uncreated "spaces" between universes, if I can't), can actually >>stand to enter a cosmos; they just want to put an end to them all, >>whether because they can't live in them permanently, or because >>they just don't like them. > >Entering a cosmos is a dangerous thing, however. >Note that Gandalf and like were not able to reveal their true >selves -- they had to work within guises appropriate to the world. A point worth paying attention to. Thanks. >>Theophilus's "obligate acosmics" seem to be unable to abide in a >>cosmos without injury to themselves. > >A good reason to desire the destruction of a cosmos! No it ain't! :-) I can't live in the ocean, but I don't want it destroyed. I can't live in the Arctic or the Antarctic either. Nor on very high mountains. Nor in the desert. Nor outer space. But I want all those ecologies preserved. Only a being who insisted on being able to live in every place that exists -- for instance because he/she/it/they/whatever wanted to dominate all existence -- would want a place destroyed just because they couldn't live there. OTOH I don't want places I can't live to _grow_ and _expand_ into the places I _can_ live. Nor do I want invaders from those places to move into my space; I don't really want zebra mussels in the Great Lakes, even.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 14:32:52 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61739 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2007 22:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2007 22:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52011.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.94) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2007 22:32:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 413 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jan 2007 22:31:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20070129223136.411.qmail@web52011.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: vFMmLyMVM1kZWwnvEA0lhX4UsDaqB94dmjP0CGKTY7MObRxLL8zuExS25rTUg0kNTmeGfesCiHqnASsSYhHBMhTPXWDinz9NNyFwurfcRRwXHpWETzGzmG42RCuS0g1eSCxSDKber_hGPOVqO9.C5SebrDDz.fCZwiQ38Sl3pz9g19ZQ_D1s Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52011.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:31:36 PST Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:31:36 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eplqkm+pkal@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.94 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=fdN7m90jzxH-p2hMqfKc6UZ9n-35HAWwEO4GA3GFg_YHAxFd X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>Theophilus's "obligate acosmics" seem to be > >>unable to abide in a > >>cosmos without injury to themselves. > > > >A good reason to desire the destruction of a > cosmos! > > No it ain't! :-) > I can't live in the ocean, but I don't want it > destroyed. > I can't live in the Arctic or the Antarctic > either. > Nor on very high mountains. > Nor in the desert. > Nor outer space. > But I want all those ecologies preserved. Sure. You're human. Humans like to preserve things like ecologies and old buildings. The Things out in the uncreated void don't care about antiques or ecologies. If they can't abide the mere existence of a warm comfy cosmos somewhere in the deep stretches of Potential, then that's as good a reason as any. If they should find it dangerous, nay parilous, to enter a cosmos, then I could understand the desire to prophylactically destroy them. From their perspective, obviously. > Only a being who insisted on being able to live > in every place that > exists -- for instance because > he/she/it/they/whatever wanted to > dominate all existence -- would want a place > destroyed just because > they couldn't live there. > > OTOH I don't want places I can't live to _grow_ > and _expand_ into the > places I _can_ live. Nor do I want invaders > from those places to > move into my space; I don't really want zebra > mussels in the Great > Lakes, even. Well, you might think differently, if you were a Thing from the deep cold voids of Potential! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 15:49:35 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31037 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2007 23:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Jan 2007 23:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.164) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Jan 2007 23:49:34 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 23:48:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 23:48:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Jan 2007 23:48:49 -0000 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:48:46 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epm14u+qru8@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070129223136.411.qmail@web52011.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.164 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: was: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=XP0O6eFkaBX5QiG7MJ8GVhfw1Hjt5aUpQn6LccJqgzNYdSx5zIDA X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: >You're human. Thanks for the compliment, but, how can you know for sure?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 17:19:57 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78728 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2007 01:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2007 01:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52004.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.87) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2007 01:19:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 92519 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jan 2007 01:19:51 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: a8TmHWEVM1lS_SOwYk.J89OVovu7TEmyFmHBznZSZb7v_JmQKWrYzQcdH5EiQW8sPwMHix_B1Q4ak0m9ak5li1An6YZ8ZfF1RvDL8vJBpXAN7C.own2wTiCe8CPpSkO6fsBm2AxpiWpu.FNFKlVDefjQg0sx1g01C6Lmlc8qkIt50FLflz6r Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:19:51 PST Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:19:51 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <epm14u+qru8@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <708040.92328.qm@web52004.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.87 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] was: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=hW-ah2PYAip0-ksaurRR2HrOb9mLl6j4Htnphw4krhkK2WJA X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown > <elemtilas@...> wrote: > >You're human. > > Thanks for the compliment, but, how can you > know for sure? By admitting that you wish to see things like ecologies that you can't live in preserved! Unless you really are a Thing that is a) able to abide living in a cosmos and b) can act really well! ;) Padraic > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 13:01:50 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38488 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2007 21:01:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2007 21:01:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52021.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.253) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2007 21:01:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 16669 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jan 2007 21:01:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20070130210109.16667.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: YIWkLMwVM1laEZ2Z4KofTUQcWUDykW1O3U74Lps3ojAZ2tXPdNQuSc67HrrIHY6w7KlJHTrGKvBcVhKo92BE.S7WW0a7vlHpmOlNVEmvKcALMfiaaMcyPbzLS5cOn6P6LzBL67THe2OxlHWaI.k80iK6vuW6fpG3yv02pk2HhQcX_Q94QLV_BVTkwaReKAVGyg.eqPk- Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52021.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:01:09 PST Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:01:09 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200701291615.13776.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.253 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=Xy3ImuFlHYcwXoP-L8tmktFYr45EeTfw9Wge0M5qj0rJ4o26 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> wrote: > On Monday 29 January 2007 10:48 am, Padraic > Brown wrote: > > > Entering a cosmos is a dangerous thing, > > however. > > Note that Gandalf and like were not able to > > reveal their true selves -- they had to work > > within guises appropriate to the world. > > I would have thought that the Blessed Realm and > its demizens was at > least partially intregal to its own > cosm(ogony), until the end of the > third age. And probably thereaafter. I think they must would be, on account of them being creations of the Creator, and thus within the same cosmos all the other elements of that same creation are in I see the error above is in equating the Maia spirits' entrance into the Earth with a Thing's entrance into a cosmos. The Things from Outside aren't part of Creation, so aren't really analagous in nature. I was simply comparing the dangers of entering a reality that isn't compatible with your nature. I think in that sense, both Gandalf and a Thing from Outside are similar, as both could be affected by entrance into a different realm. > "All irregularities will be handled by the > forces controlling each > dimension. Transuranic, heavy elements may not > be used where there is > life. Medium atomic weights are available: > Gold, Lead, Copper, Jet, > Diamond, Radium, Sapphire, Silver and Steel." Sounds like a memo! Send in triplicate to the Bureaux of Elemental Propagation and Mineral Seeding! Padraic > > - andrew. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 13:51:54 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 45080 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2007 21:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 Jan 2007 21:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Jan 2007 21:48:57 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2007 21:47:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2007 21:47:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 Jan 2007 21:47:05 -0000 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:47:03 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epoecn+m338@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <708040.92328.qm@web52004.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: was: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=axSoflkBKapUH9mLHVFNTlccfPhzoGmn5D01IFHz7w0w0dvr-nxM X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: >--- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> wrote: >>---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@> wrote: >>>You're human. >>Thanks for the compliment, but, how can you know for sure? >By admitting that you wish to see things like ecologies that you >can't live in preserved! No; the livability of the environments I can inhabit, depends in part -- in large part, actually, when you add them all up -- on processes that take place in environments I cannot inhabit. >Unless you really are a Thing that is >a) able to abide living in a cosmos and Yes, I am. Of course, so are humans. >b) can act really well! ;) Whether I can act really well is a matter of opinion, I guess. Usually I am more-or-less ambitious to act right; other people usually think I succeed, but they think I fail a little more often than I do. -T
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Tue Jan 30 23:55:25 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80622 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2007 07:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2007 07:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2007 07:55:23 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 6D89A144003; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:54:58 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DBC144005 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:54:54 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00587-04 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:54:52 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8BC144003 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:54:51 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:54:54 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <20070130210109.16667.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20070130210109.16667.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200701312054.55207.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=9rkQP7R9_vssYGzhdc2P6xud_i4MdpgzAFqfvGpXrvU0Mm3IFu86UiIN X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir On Wednesday 31 January 2007 10:01 am, Padraic Brown wrote: > --- andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> wrote: > > On Monday 29 January 2007 10:48 am, Padraic > > "All irregularities will be handled by the > > forces controlling each > > dimension. Transuranic, heavy elements may not > > be used where there is > > life. Medium atomic weights are available: > > Gold, Lead, Copper, Jet, > > Diamond, Radium, Sapphire, Silver and Steel." > > Sounds like a memo! Send in triplicate to the > Bureaux of Elemental Propagation and Mineral > Seeding! > Didn't you get the memo? It was originally sent in 1979. Check your in-tray. All I did was remove the final line of the prologue "Sapphire and Steel have been assigned". No one got the reference? How depressing -- not only are those two heros locked in a timeloop but they are consigned to history. They could have easily have been Maiar like Gandalf. Their mission was easily comparable. They protect us from places where time grows thin and Things break in. Beware old photos, old houses, abandoned railway stations, places with history. We will never know what agency sent them. Like the Maiar they were agents on the margins of the Cosm. Drama from an age when cheap special effects, like a spot of light on the wall, left much for the imagination. - andrew.
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 31 06:56:16 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5650 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2007 14:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2007 14:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2007 14:56:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 59572 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jan 2007 14:55:45 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: REB0jpsVM1khSp6B7G.ogWIUV_Mc_l_RforvpfgXOVJ.5ZKbXHBC4_n93AXtewIXEYBvl2dMhgdMOGUhoyVxutjLRMdhVARNTGRq.JcIbzP_MGxxqUdsJDB77nGx3Et.f5rnYfgQ Received: from [66.142.175.10] by web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:55:45 GMT Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:55:45 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200701312054.55207.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <529566.58051.qm@web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=XCsd4Dpc_i6lQlalqhTiLzFy9O3fCNBu-dFCWo7VNAIkxMvEdTglcw X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> wrote: > On Wednesday 31 January 2007 10:01 am, Padraic Brown > wrote: > > --- andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> wrote: > > > On Monday 29 January 2007 10:48 am, Padraic > > > > "All irregularities will be handled by the > > > forces controlling each > > > dimension. Transuranic, heavy elements may not > > > be used where there is > > > life. Medium atomic weights are available: > > > Gold, Lead, Copper, Jet, > > > Diamond, Radium, Sapphire, Silver and Steel." > > > > Sounds like a memo! Send in triplicate to the > > Bureaux of Elemental Propagation and Mineral > > Seeding! > > > Didn't you get the memo? It was originally sent in > 1979. Check your > in-tray. All I did was remove the final line of the > prologue "Sapphire > and Steel have been assigned". No one got the > reference? How > depressing -- not only are those two heros locked in > a timeloop but > they are consigned to history. Actually, I got the reference. Which is quite scary since I was 6 at the time it was first transmitted. What I remember from the cheesy episode I saw on video was the inane pseudo-chemistry in the title sequence, which you quoted, and the equally inane 70s haircuts and clothing. Nothing else. It's scary what my mind hangs onto sometimes. > They could have easily have been Maiar like Gandalf. > Their mission was > easily comparable. They protect us from places > where time grows thin > and Things break in. Beware old photos, old houses, > abandoned railway > stations, places with history. We will never know > what agency sent > them. Like the Maiar they were agents on the > margins of the Cosm. > Drama from an age when cheap special effects, like a > spot of light on > the wall, left much for the imagination. > > - andrew. > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 10:40:14 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16847 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2007 18:40:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2007 18:40:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2007 18:40:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2007 18:40:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 Jan 2007 18:40:09 -0000 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:40:07 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <epqnq7+tfku@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <529566.58051.qm@web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 198.111.161.98 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Polycosm: Diacosmica X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=b59xliTeEIrne91j6WC8vhqomndOsq_Dj2tXtbZcsIUJ3a2FR7qU X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: [snip] > Actually, I got the reference. _I_ don't get it; and I was 17 in 1979. Does this prove I'm leftpondian? Or what?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 14:51:32 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33160 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2007 22:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 Jan 2007 22:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52020.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.252) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2007 22:51:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 26896 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Jan 2007 22:51:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20070131225118.26894.qmail@web52020.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: fONZD1IVM1lF9f1aczay1wGwAppKnCSM.fS_nBgZMwT0TKynKhS_Mfnhp8x9avN2SmTWD7YkGdxM.Jyr._NO_yo3Ye6f3qORTIl1gjLVkmTsDhuoahqxOfkwOwMN.8p0Mya3i48F1IV6Km5vw4B9pchT5Nf1yhaXy.JqU3tjONyRm1ubhkbE Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52020.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:51:18 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:51:18 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <371847.9946.qm@web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Chemical Elements X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=8HCQrCxpf78W2fyk00-YHNVbidHxE_hPjTmFDVi_OFg4duKe X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Pedro Moderno <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> wrote: > Probably not only some of the > chemical > elements would have different names *there* > so as some of the > scientific names of animals and plants. Indeed. I have some notes on IB chemical names from an old discussion, with some of the Kerno names: It's entitled, cleverly enough, "Sistema Periodica lor Elemenz". I have a space under N, I suppose I was vacillating between Nitrogen and Azote. For Na, Kerno has Natrien. With the SI's latinising tendencies, it might well be that K, Az, Na, Fe, Hg and the like have their Latin names. (Though I might perfer Mc (mercurium) to the more cumbersome hydrargyrum!) Otherwise, the lower number elements seem to be the same as *here*. Some of the higher numbers are different, though: W is gwolfram; Lu (lutetium) is Cp (cassiopeium); Am (americium) is Sx (saxonium); Bk (berkleium) is Cn (carolonium); Cf (californium) is Bv (bavarium); Rf (rutherfordium) is Kt (kurchatovium). I would consider those changes a very strong QAA. Padraic. Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 16:22:34 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84770 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2007 00:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Feb 2007 00:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52028.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.29) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2007 00:22:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 19659 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Feb 2007 00:21:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20070201002147.19657.qmail@web52028.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: qp9PdVAVM1lfVKu9PFjXLaOLbrQspd9o2IY5wD04E15lYkkvv.aCBtDBJVFxekIUkwO.V2tL5kaYyED.fGMyXOjkxti6DSuipqp5.3SidhJ_2gHSyFV59OnCifDMSIwn2OrLDki1u7OCwYaMSdl.DCY_H1WdHcwilv2kZ4Surx4yxeYesHb1Okm. Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52028.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:21:44 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:21:44 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <371847.9946.qm@web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.29 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Scientific terminology [was: Chemical Elements] X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=jsoM_9roX_QEEfwGo_LTEh_fTJhLd64W4nCDXfvEFm21y2y3 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Li Alam has different names of chemical > elements, scientific names of organisms, and > some few > of the elementary particles that they have > discovered have different names too. There being no "science" in the World per se, that is, as a well regulated system of intellectual disciplines, there are no scientific names as such. > As regards animals and plants, Li Alam has the > same > tradition of binomial scientific names, The various disciplines of natural philosophy do have naming conventions, though there is no world-wide standard. For example, two different kinds of rock or animal can't have the same name, as that would be contrary to Nature and Reason. Biological taxonomy is rudimentary. Their philosophers know, through long and insufferable debate, that animals and plants are quite different (and for the most part, this assessment is correct), and so should be classified differently. Plants are arranged according to "species" -- be it tree, herb, grass or wort, etc. Further divisions involve how the leaves are arranged or medicinal and alchemical properties. Animals are a little more clearly defined. Obviously, bears and cats are quite different, so anything that is "like a bear" goes over in the bear "species" while anything that is "like a cat" goes in the cat "species". But the names are rarely more "scientific" than "brown bear", "black bear", "cave bear" and "white bear". Stars, while they have common names, are also designated by the sector of the sky they lie in. Not quite like naming stars after the constellation they are in, but a similar idea. > Geoff Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 01 18:43:51 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43510 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2007 02:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2007 02:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.64) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2007 02:43:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 15444 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Feb 2007 02:43:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20070202024320.15442.qmail@web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: TmzjW7kVM1ncOh0KQ1ZS62ie.Eamt9ix5yyeJA4.VroJX5XplgDB7RLqhev9uonRX2o1lUdQLI_MCpjb9zWRWnr5s.h_iFOiimcXhjrmomL_F7HVxVicbq.Z.78bZ3KEes_L0bjK Received: from [68.88.142.2] by web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 02:43:20 GMT Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 02:43:20 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.64 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=aKVfGz2RwCQzn8sRoUqIDKOTKd-M3hUOXX6le02LN84nBATZgva8LQ X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood Greetings all, I'm in the very early stages of fleshing out an idea I had a while back when I had no time to develop it. Basically, I'm postulating a world where the Americas had more large, possibly domesticable, livestock animals. The POD is somewhere at the end of the Pleistocene, and I'm more or less decreeing American survival of at least the horse and probably one or two other extinct megafauna. The question is: Which ones? Mammoths are tempting, and there's that gomphothere (extinct proboscidean) called Cuvieronius that apparently did survive until about 100CE. I want something else domesticable, though, ideally speaking. Any ideas? Geoff ====== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From rfmilly@msn.com Thu Feb 01 21:53:57 2007 Return-Path: <rfmilly@msn.com> X-Sender: rfmilly@msn.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28804 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2007 05:52:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2007 05:52:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc2-s5.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.141) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2007 05:52:32 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.61.74]) by bay0-omc2-s5.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 1 Feb 2007 21:49:38 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 1 Feb 2007 21:49:38 -0800 Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV2E1F6E718B60D53876BDEAC9B0@phx.gbl> Received: from 71.115.178.201 by BAY102-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 05:49:35 +0000 X-Originating-Email: [rfmilly@msn.com] X-Sender: rfmilly@msn.com To: "CONLANG" <CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU>, "conculture" <conculture@yahoogroups.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 00:49:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 00:49:38 -0500 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Feb 2007 05:49:38.0743 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED362470:01C7468D] Return-Path: rfmilly@msn.com X-Originating-IP: 65.54.246.141 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Roger Mills" <rfmilly@msn.com> Subject: OT (very): a new music CD X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=181787247; y=3TFietUH0K6Dz1AIimc_zmsnKXV5zfeXmF1Xmzvg04E4Cw X-Yahoo-Profile: romiltz Apologies for my presumption, but I know of no better way to reach like-minded friends-- Permit me to recommend a just-released CD of fascinating and beautiful songs by my very dear friend Matt Bulthouse. Some samples can be heard at http://myspace.com/mattbulthousemusic and the CD can be ordered, should anyone be so inclined, through the "merchandise" link at http://mattbulthousemusic.com/home.html , and I'm sure he would appreciate any feedback. I'm told that some of his songs are already getting radio play in England and the Netherlands. (Necessary disclaimer: aside from my friendship with Matt and his wife, I have no financial involvement in this venture, but needless to say, hope it will be a great success.) Roger
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 02 00:41:24 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96397 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2007 08:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m40a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2007 08:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.118) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2007 08:41:23 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2007 08:40:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2007 08:40:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2007 08:40:23 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 08:40:23 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eputdn+3lsf@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070202024320.15442.qmail@web26701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.118 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=Hmi2TEWrxAw5sB3xQLFsRMP8EeIyROmZ-g5mfuFfKKuQI_7a8Dg1-w X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > Greetings all, > > I'm in the very early stages of fleshing out an idea I > had a while back when I had no time to develop it. > > Basically, I'm postulating a world where the Americas > had more large, possibly domesticable, livestock > animals. The POD is somewhere at the end of the > Pleistocene, and I'm more or less decreeing American > survival of at least the horse and probably one or two > other extinct megafauna. > > The question is: > Which ones? > > Mammoths are tempting, and there's that gomphothere > (extinct proboscidean) called Cuvieronius that > apparently did survive until about 100CE. I want > something else domesticable, though, ideally speaking. > > Any ideas? > > Geoff > ====== > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html > Bizarrely, I'm also considering such a thing. I had horses and camels in mind myself though. Perhaps you should consider keeping the not-so- Megafauna around, but have the largest ones (Mammoths etc) become extinct. And perhaps some of the big predetors too. Although, saying that, having some of them stick around could be beneficial when another large-ish predetor arrives (namely, us).
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 02 07:35:30 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14638 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2007 15:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2007 15:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.69) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2007 15:35:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 86620 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Feb 2007 15:35:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KQsVW.wVM1nuaqU9Y93ASuAn36eZ9X9kRtnh03NWASyb7dXYdQlE9FlOg2MDtgbw40nSdRv2nnQyIOaBZw4dsXQlR9ZAUylYwLJpM99DMIMxg1s2ATy5nOuLtQJ9X2w0tNybKKZ2 Received: from [68.88.142.245] by web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 15:35:08 GMT Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:35:08 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eputdn+3lsf@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <733144.86386.qm@web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=OYIgg6y3uwN8P4nZMyIbi0f4-IDqXLgzQeoF9nRhC8ZgaCv18Cj3eQ X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Bizarrely, I'm also considering such a thing. I had > horses and camels > in mind myself though. Perhaps you should consider > keeping the not-so- > Megafauna around, but have the largest ones > (Mammoths etc) become > extinct. And perhaps some of the big predetors too. > Although, saying > that, having some of them stick around could be > beneficial when > another large-ish predetor arrives (namely, us). > Yes, I was also considering camels, but I've read somewhere (don't know where it was; Wikipedia I think) that mammoths are thought to have been one of the last of the megafauna to go extinct in the New World, so I thought, "why not?" And as for predators, I was going to add at least _Canis dirus_ and I was thinking of spicing things up a little with something that can take on and _catch_ a pronghorn: the American cheetah. Do you want to collaborate? Geoff ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Fri Feb 02 12:05:15 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6160 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2007 20:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Feb 2007 20:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.105) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Feb 2007 20:05:13 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2007 20:05:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2007 20:05:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Feb 2007 20:05:06 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:05:06 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq05hi+4f6k@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <733144.86386.qm@web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.105 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 198.111.161.98 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=64mBUZxS9MkcwnTFkX85gB2ujKVtSpoFWK1EfN5bblnP_L_KE7D0 X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > ... I've read > somewhere (don't know where it was; Wikipedia I think) > that mammoths are thought to have been one of the last > of the megafauna to go extinct in the New World, so I > thought, "why not?" > > And as for predators, I was going to add at least > _Canis dirus_ and I was thinking of spicing things up > a little with something that can take on and _catch_ a > pronghorn: the American cheetah. > > ... The last terror-bird in North America may have still been living there when the first human in North America arrived there. ("Terror birds", in case you didn't know, were extra-large roadrunners.)
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 03 02:41:44 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5198 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2007 10:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2007 10:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.186) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2007 10:41:42 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n5.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2007 10:40:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2007 10:40:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2007 10:40:47 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 10:40:45 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq1ord+5ecp@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eq05hi+4f6k@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.219.245.253 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=6Aj4EQ4IeoQxYBdw_m4ya00gZOjdx3peOXgft5CE8EKOof4NgycSag X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@> > wrote: > > ... I've read > > somewhere (don't know where it was; Wikipedia I think) > > that mammoths are thought to have been one of the last > > of the megafauna to go extinct in the New World, so I > > thought, "why not?" > > > > And as for predators, I was going to add at least > > _Canis dirus_ and I was thinking of spicing things up > > a little with something that can take on and _catch_ a > > pronghorn: the American cheetah. > > > > ... > The last terror-bird in North America may have still been living there > when the first human in North America arrived there. > ("Terror birds", in case you didn't know, were extra-large roadrunners.) > According to the latest findings, the Terror Birds went extinct long before humans (that is Homo Sapiens, and much more besides) evolved.
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 03 02:43:24 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58398 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2007 10:43:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2007 10:43:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2007 10:43:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2007 10:43:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Feb 2007 10:43:21 -0000 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 10:43:20 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq1p08+9bfd@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <733144.86386.qm@web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.219.245.253 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=Vdhb5ALS2g7vxvuumesgbI1vfIfbcHvrbQcvXsl6ELTl2DiFx63y2A X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > > > > Bizarrely, I'm also considering such a thing. I had > > horses and camels > > in mind myself though. Perhaps you should consider > > keeping the not-so- > > Megafauna around, but have the largest ones > > (Mammoths etc) become > > extinct. And perhaps some of the big predetors too. > > Although, saying > > that, having some of them stick around could be > > beneficial when > > another large-ish predetor arrives (namely, us). > > > > Yes, I was also considering camels, but I've read > somewhere (don't know where it was; Wikipedia I think) > that mammoths are thought to have been one of the last > of the megafauna to go extinct in the New World, so I > thought, "why not?" > > And as for predators, I was going to add at least > _Canis dirus_ and I was thinking of spicing things up > a little with something that can take on and _catch_ a > pronghorn: the American cheetah. > Perhaps the smaller big cats should survive. Not sure about smilodon though. > Do you want to collaborate? Sure, why not. I've only just got started myself. Remember to take the butterfly effect into consederation (that way, imaginations can have more exercise). > > Geoff > ===== > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England > Lol.
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 03 10:16:28 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72418 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2007 18:14:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Feb 2007 18:14:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.71) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Feb 2007 18:14:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 88511 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Feb 2007 18:14:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SBUGH_wVM1mrjuwBkXQEar5dS1GtXjXhYpq4oeYhdaji4BBpuARoNbMgY6LRjaX1mctkix8D0vgYqy0I3qTPDdNyNKOzbRcmO5MXk.ttubYN009Ur7CkUp2KAxUt18ftRWZx3W5E Received: from [65.68.200.72] by web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Feb 2007 18:14:27 GMT Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 18:14:27 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eq1p08+9bfd@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <736908.88255.qm@web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=WEhD6Suk0zgDSAAPebhssb4XP-0tqJzz5dIkTSxiwF9Ikpn1J-4abQ X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood > Perhaps the smaller big cats should survive. Not > sure about smilodon > though. No, I didn't know about Smilodon, either. What about South America and the larger Caribbean islands like Cuba, where it seems like some of the weirder megafauna may have survived well into the Holocene. > > Do you want to collaborate? > > Sure, why not. I've only just got started myself. > Remember to take > the butterfly effect into consederation (that way, > imaginations can > have more exercise). Exactly. I reckon that, given at least a couple of decent domesticable animals, there's not all that much reason why you shouldn't get large river-valley civilisations in a similar vein to the Old World. And that changes _everything_. Old World history would of course remain more or less the same, up until the two continental civilisations make contact. And who knows when that would be? I'm just getting started myself, really. I'm trying to educate myself a little more on American Pleistocene fauna so I can make better decisions on the likelihood of survival of different species. Geoff ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From carrajena@yahoo.com Sun Feb 04 18:03:13 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31875 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 02:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 02:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60318.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.126) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 02:03:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 28948 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Feb 2007 02:03:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: msjUYjkVM1kGRXrLBdgZZoiPzDHZKyeXsRFg6dO3KY3YQof.V8NII0jcepzHms_eIzF.ziiCXg.CldbpTbM62BdlLSShSZ0mY8xly0g1HLocH7N1vVcDciYx2W4dNKWrPe5g1_WAYkJYjPjLPYA7T1Sd7ss- Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60318.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 04 Feb 2007 18:03:07 PST Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 18:03:07 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <736908.88255.qm@web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <907704.25737.qm@web60318.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.126 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y=2k2fDEYmti_UJw2TD2hLBHHRglSWCiivnH8efl_iG1C7RlEw X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Perhaps the smaller big cats should survive. Not > > sure about smilodon > > though. > > No, I didn't know about Smilodon, either. > What about brontotherium, uintatherium and monopos? Leaving some of the REALLY big ones around could be . . . erm . . . interesting for the emerging civilizations. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sun Feb 04 18:47:58 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5084 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 02:47:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 02:47:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 02:47:57 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 02:47:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 02:47:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 02:47:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 02:47:57 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq65st+bteb@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.123 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosmic News: Feb. 5-6 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=gPk4BjjSiW_7y7HzhUs5PJlGxPBXB6Ry89FvxEQf5AIfQMUI5g X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 5 (Homo Habilior World-2) The young woman Melisande continued narrating in the presence of the Cambro-Mesica doctor Popopoyoll: "Once Iwarssohn had returned me to the camp, he resumed his chastisement, and whatever respect he had gleaned from my references had vanished beyond the possibility of recapture. Even his wife Lothilde, whose training was focused on healing, glanced at me while I was recuperating, and I could tell that I had failed her as well as her husband. Once I was well, the oppressive disapproval remained - one of the myriad girls who applied and was rejected should have come with them instead of me." 6 (Homo Habilior World-1) Before Iwarsson could answer Gwenfrewi's inopportune question, a man, grizzled and scarred, appeared out of thin air. In his hand he clutched a transporter not unlike that which Gwenfrewi's parent and aunt had used, but sleeker and seemingly more advanced. The stranger charged at Gwenfrewi, spewing obscenities, but Iwarssohn blocked him with his bulk. "Who are you and what are you doing?" "Out of my way, Ifarson. The girl destroyed my world!"
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sun Feb 04 18:54:09 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78537 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 02:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 02:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.166) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 02:54:08 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 02:54:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 02:54:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 02:54:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 02:54:06 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq668e+5l95@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.166 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=d-mKFyO225RBy89DAtsg_s35dJRIgHJhxS_Nf5qUyi6kpQk1pw X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 "Future Evolution: An Illuminated History of Life to Come" by Peter Ward. It's an serious examination of future avenues of evolution in a human- dominated environment. On that note, I have a couple of polycosmoi (polycosmo w/omega) in mind: 1) where dwell truly Aquatic Apes (would there extra adaptations?) 2) where the Nile empties into the Qattara (does it ever reach the sea?)
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 05 02:08:38 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63131 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 10:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 10:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.109) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 10:07:09 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 10:07:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 10:07:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 10:07:01 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 10:07:00 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq6vk4+c1m0@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <907704.25737.qm@web60318.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.109 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=u7yiKnteBAj1zuKJlxeJbS1ECSvuEwahPR9DcU4ZFOm4W3-dxza4Mg X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Adam Walker <carrajena@...> wrote: > > > --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > > Perhaps the smaller big cats should survive. Not > > > sure about smilodon > > > though. > > > > No, I didn't know about Smilodon, either. > > > > What about brontotherium, uintatherium and monopos? > Leaving some of the REALLY big ones around could be . > . . erm . . . interesting for the emerging > civilizations. They became extinct long before any humans (that is our entire genus) emerged. > > Adam > > 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. > > Machu 2:11 >
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 05 02:18:32 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28718 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 10:18:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 10:18:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.122) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 10:18:31 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 10:18:24 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 10:18:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 10:18:24 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 10:18:23 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq709f+bhu2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <736908.88255.qm@web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.122 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=Ekw-S3ueGMdhzndg5cWM0O2wCtSgN-GCSgyDvmgkbBxuRFdip9Njlw X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > Perhaps the smaller big cats should survive. Not > > sure about smilodon > > though. > > No, I didn't know about Smilodon, either. > > What about South America and the larger Caribbean > islands like Cuba, where it seems like some of the > weirder megafauna may have survived well into the > Holocene. > Thats possible for some of the smaller ones (assuming that the've got onto the islands in the first place) > > > Do you want to collaborate? > > > > Sure, why not. I've only just got started myself. > > Remember to take > > the butterfly effect into consederation (that way, > > imaginations can > > have more exercise). > > Exactly. I reckon that, given at least a couple of > decent domesticable animals, there's not all that much > reason why you shouldn't get large river-valley > civilisations in a similar vein to the Old World. And > that changes _everything_. > I can just imagine it now - Caribbean City States; a hydraulic empire along the Mississippi; horse-riding nomads along the Great Plains; camel-trains across Mexico and Texas. :) > Old World history would of course remain more or less > the same, up until the two continental civilisations > make contact. And who knows when that would be? > Ooo, bad bad bad. The butterfly effect will occur worldwide. Remember, we're dealing with 15,000 to 20,000 years of divergence here, so there's going to be a large amount of diference. > I'm just getting started myself, really. I'm trying > to educate myself a little more on American > Pleistocene fauna so I can make better decisions on > the likelihood of survival of different species. > Here are good places to start - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megafauna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Pleistocene_Extinctions > Geoff > ===== > > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html >
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 05 03:21:18 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95747 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 11:21:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 11:21:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.67) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 11:21:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 87587 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Feb 2007 11:21:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20070205112109.87585.qmail@web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: KZhLxrUVM1mkI3wNdoRNKg9_JUz36Sdo3u7bdbJPWnj9NH3D.v5Sf7QbDO5RtspsjjDgdu68ImsYHWNzHTmAaSzgVEy4uO3yEuw5Fg_e7LI2PQxKR0B2RfzKv03axf96hbe2dy77 Received: from [65.65.222.218] by web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Feb 2007 11:21:09 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:21:09 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eq709f+bhu2@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=Ii1X3XZVYKUnsjCIWcb1ZLrpJkP-_S4QlmLnjA8Eq60ilMWTR1zx6w X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood > <geoffhorswood@...> > wrote: > > > > > Perhaps the smaller big cats should survive. Not > > > sure about smilodon > > > though. > > > > No, I didn't know about Smilodon, either. > > > > What about South America and the larger Caribbean > > islands like Cuba, where it seems like some of the > > weirder megafauna may have survived well into the > > Holocene. > > > > Thats possible for some of the smaller ones > (assuming that the've got > onto the islands in the first place) Seems there were ground sloths at least in some of the islands. Given what you normally see in island population, the ground sloths would be smaller than their mainland relatives. > I can just imagine it now - Caribbean City States; a > hydraulic empire > along the Mississippi; horse-riding nomads along the > Great Plains; > camel-trains across Mexico and Texas. :) > > > Old World history would of course remain more or > less > > the same, up until the two continental > civilisations > > make contact. And who knows when that would be? > > > > Ooo, bad bad bad. The butterfly effect will occur > worldwide. > Remember, we're dealing with 15,000 to 20,000 years > of divergence > here, so there's going to be a large amount of > diference. About 12,000 to 9,000 years is more like it, from what I've read. But yes, there's still going to be a lot of divergence. But human history doesn't happen in a vacuum. There has to be contact for divergence to transmit itself. I still think that the Old World will be more or less the same up until the point of contact. Maybe you have a trickle of seagoing contact in the far north between Alaska and Chukotka via the Aleutians, but this seems far enough from the centres of the emergent civilisations that it can be discounted as a means of propagating change. How much have the Palaeosiberian peoples affected Mesopotamian and European cultures? If you made a change to the Sakha in Yakutia, how much would it affect the development of Europe? And they're on the same landmass. > > I'm just getting started myself, really. I'm > trying > > to educate myself a little more on American > > Pleistocene fauna so I can make better decisions > on > > the likelihood of survival of different species. > > > > Here are good places to start - > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megafauna > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Pleistocene_Extinctions > Been there. And you might also look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/lifeways/hg_ag/quiet_revolution.html Geoff One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 05 03:25:48 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14005 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 11:25:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 11:25:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.71) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 11:25:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 59891 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Feb 2007 11:24:30 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: cBKvTl0VM1leM1RZ0dI2OL30rC.HWiIPfJy5RCzz3mIsekc_u4BYia1GPnEXBpXBITEr6XWE9N0IpengousqMxhwH6oWcm_U36EzHgeo3B2kYZgPxII9fbZLAbN2yZ2z4m34ze8.YMd_1PctsTQWwjnAITQ- Received: from [65.65.222.218] by web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Feb 2007 11:24:30 GMT Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 11:24:30 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <907704.25737.qm@web60318.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <139860.59443.qm@web26714.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=hRof2iT7FdZXvOpp5bvVRF93hRdQcLzWAhXi4ZyYZc3N0DGOqIcWUg X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > What about brontotherium, uintatherium and monopos? > Leaving some of the REALLY big ones around could be > . > . . erm . . . interesting for the emerging > civilizations. > > Adam > Extinct long before humans were around. About the best options for some really big animals are _Megatherium_, _Mylodon_ and _Mammuthus columbi_. One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 05 04:10:48 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25967 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 12:10:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 12:10:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.118) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 12:10:38 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 12:10:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 12:10:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 12:10:37 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:10:34 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq76rq+55h9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070205112109.87585.qmail@web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.118 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=tXnAJeVZFCdA1s6vbM9GwbzHq-2tVtV2JBIG73UUKMMm1I7pvZK8rQ X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood > > <geoffhorswood@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > Perhaps the smaller big cats should survive. Not > > > > sure about smilodon > > > > though. > > > > > > No, I didn't know about Smilodon, either. > > > > > > What about South America and the larger Caribbean > > > islands like Cuba, where it seems like some of the > > > weirder megafauna may have survived well into the > > > Holocene. > > > > > > > Thats possible for some of the smaller ones > > (assuming that the've got > > onto the islands in the first place) > > Seems there were ground sloths at least in some of the > islands. Given what you normally see in island > population, the ground sloths would be smaller than > their mainland relatives. > Fair enough. > > I can just imagine it now - Caribbean City States; a > > hydraulic empire > > along the Mississippi; horse-riding nomads along the > > Great Plains; > > camel-trains across Mexico and Texas. :) > > > > > Old World history would of course remain more or > > less > > > the same, up until the two continental > > civilisations > > > make contact. And who knows when that would be? > > > > > > > Ooo, bad bad bad. The butterfly effect will occur > > worldwide. > > Remember, we're dealing with 15,000 to 20,000 years > > of divergence > > here, so there's going to be a large amount of > > diference. > > About 12,000 to 9,000 years is more like it, from what > I've read. But yes, there's still going to be a lot > of divergence. But human history doesn't happen in a > vacuum. There has to be contact for divergence to > transmit itself. I still think that the Old World > will be more or less the same up until the point of > contact. > You seem to have misunderstood. Random events are just that, random. After thousands of years, the likelyhood that Old World history is going to be similar to *here* would be vanishingly small. After all, there is *no* change whatsoever of *any* important historical figures from *here* existing at all (not to mention the general population). People might migrate to diferent places, see diferent things at diferent times. The language divergence by itself would be almost incalculable not to mention the genetic divergence from *here*. Perhaps you should read this article - http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Guide_to_good_Althist_writing written by, er ... me. > Maybe you have a trickle of seagoing contact in the > far north between Alaska and Chukotka via the > Aleutians, but this seems far enough from the centres > of the emergent civilisations that it can be > discounted as a means of propagating change. How much > have the Palaeosiberian peoples affected Mesopotamian > and European cultures? If you made a change to the > Sakha in Yakutia, how much would it affect the > development of Europe? And they're on the same > landmass. > > > > I'm just getting started myself, really. I'm > > trying > > > to educate myself a little more on American > > > Pleistocene fauna so I can make better decisions > > on > > > the likelihood of survival of different species. > > > > > > > Here are good places to start - > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megafauna > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Pleistocene_Extinctions > > > > Been there. And you might also look at > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication > Have already. > http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/lifeways/hg_ag/quie t_revolution.html > Nice article.
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Mon Feb 05 10:52:02 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16871 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2007 18:51:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Feb 2007 18:51:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Feb 2007 18:51:13 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 18:50:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Feb 2007 18:50:40 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 18:50:37 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eq7u9t+em3a@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eq709f+bhu2@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.216 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: decent domesticable animals in America(was: Re: Survival of American megafauna?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=Y2aKtqpsERzW3K9TzvanUGLodK5ZbuPUz9rQoafW5xPixA7Px7JB X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Llywelyn Jones" ><llywelynjones@...> wrote: >---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@> >wrote: >>[snip] >>Exactly. I reckon that, given at least a couple of >>decent domesticable animals, there's not all that much >>reason why you shouldn't get large river-valley >>civilisations in a similar vein to the Old World. And >>that changes _everything_. > >I can just imagine it now - Caribbean City States; a hydraulic >empire along the Mississippi; horse-riding nomads along the Great >Plains; camel-trains across Mexico and Texas. :) > >>Old World history would of course remain more or less >>the same, up until the two continental civilisations >>make contact. And who knows when that would be? Take a look at: http://www.worlddreambank.org/J/JAREDIA.HTM http://worlddreambank.org/J/JAREDIA.JPG http://worlddreambank.org/T/TILT.HTM
From boreanesia@yahoo.com Mon Feb 05 22:09:38 2007 Return-Path: <boreanesia@yahoo.com> X-Sender: boreanesia@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8496 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2007 06:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2007 06:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (66.163.178.107) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2007 06:09:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 75807 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2007 06:09:35 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: yieQQsAVM1kEbqZ8sXqxlKIyjJC2wkqN1yKfQLnfVLDEq2wsYvizqCvIuGCxbvWV3y362AW2jXYQOQXcMAgb5el761Pv74EdsD9_hHKjcDwHhDadjcy0U0bfiNENciHrKbyl0chGTQr9a9s- Received: from [194.255.106.38] by web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Feb 2007 07:09:35 CET Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 07:09:35 +0100 (CET) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eq7u9t+em3a@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-53472998-1170742175=:75008" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <370064.75008.qm@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.163.178.107 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Kristian Jensen <boreanesia@yahoo.com> Subject: SV: [conculture] decent domesticable animals in America(was: Re: Survival of American megafauna?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=290962088; y=h_5PLvB6rMBnDK2e6zrzMHFDivRoH9YjT-qh0E24wwyms2dYQw X-Yahoo-Profile: boreanesia --0-53472998-1170742175=:75008 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
"Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@ ...> skrev: > > Exactly. I reckon that, given at least a couple of > > decent domesticable animals, there's not all that
> > much reason why you shouldn't get large river-valley
> > civilisations in a similar vein to the Old World.
> > And that changes _everything_ . > > I can just imagine it now - Caribbean City States; a
> hydraulic empire along the Mississippi; horse-riding
> nomads along the Great Plains; camel-trains across
> Mexico and Texas. :) > > > Old World history would of course remain more or
> > less the same, up until the two continental
> > civilisations make contact. And who knows when that
> > would be?
 
New World civilizations would still be less advanced than Old World civilizations. The former has the disadvantage of having to expand longitudinally across disimilar climates, disimilar flora, and disimilar fauna. The latter has the advantage of expanding latitudinally across similar climates, similar flora, and similar fauna.
-kristian- 8)


Alt i én. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og notesblok.
--0-53472998-1170742175=:75008--
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 06 03:10:44 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 15646 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2007 11:10:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2007 11:10:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.72) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2007 11:10:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 26951 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2007 11:10:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SQBAnI4VM1kkDxFe6uOUAOsLq0OQukXJXoRVUKpr2_HzlRhe_dAxGRmU0hvqfoVCNIL4KHfPpZemf8AiwsN_8rlXt9ZGzu8XXAodIls2e5kvklTsaXQPRrjmJyCJn9SFb5Ui.5.J Received: from [67.64.119.52] by web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Feb 2007 11:10:31 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:10:31 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <370064.75008.qm@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <654228.25850.qm@web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: SV: [conculture] decent domesticable animals in America(was: Re: Survival of American megafauna?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=sTZtGLCJGGOQH_yiyfp8pP9H7HXbcmHptgw0HPeUx4Rjmq97xaRJIQ X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Kristian Jensen <boreanesia@yahoo.com> wrote: > "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@ ...> skrev: > > > > Exactly. I reckon that, given at least a couple > of > > > decent domesticable animals, there's not all > that > > > much reason why you shouldn't get large > river-valley > > > civilisations in a similar vein to the Old > World. > > > And that changes _everything_ . > > > > I can just imagine it now - Caribbean City States; > a > > hydraulic empire along the Mississippi; > horse-riding > > nomads along the Great Plains; camel-trains > across > > Mexico and Texas. :) > > > > > Old World history would of course remain more or > > > > less the same, up until the two continental > > > civilisations make contact. And who knows when > that > > > would be? > > New World civilizations would still be less > advanced than Old World civilizations. The former > has the disadvantage of having to expand > longitudinally across disimilar climates, disimilar > flora, and disimilar fauna. The latter has the > advantage of expanding latitudinally across similar > climates, similar flora, and similar fauna. > > -kristian- 8) Probably true. But mainland North America especially is wide enough that there is room for _some_ latitudinal expansion, even if not as much as in the Old World. One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 06 03:12:58 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51219 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2007 11:12:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2007 11:12:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.69) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2007 11:12:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 52952 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Feb 2007 11:12:43 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 8vmF7m8VM1k6N.tbysgGNe7QpecuyRsNebXXQOyxc06SZaV9XMvloT0ZrIIW5CqzP4qxmoyyNbqsO0TJ2oLgsSuE.ezY1giElURHdne4X1VOcOivChzE9zIbqDcklBNbpMK_9nNd Received: from [67.64.119.52] by web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Feb 2007 11:12:43 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:12:43 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eq7u9t+em3a@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <643756.52199.qm@web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] decent domesticable animals in America(was: Re: Survival of American megafauna?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=K7pap2n1-tlc4f4bH8KVywgnzhQbzAOp3pPg3dQ0UX8hajhsTRZvsw X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Take a look at: > http://www.worlddreambank.org/J/JAREDIA.HTM > http://worlddreambank.org/J/JAREDIA.JPG > http://worlddreambank.org/T/TILT.HTM > Fascinating! ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Yahoo! Mail. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Tue Feb 06 07:57:55 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70572 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2007 15:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Feb 2007 15:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2007 15:57:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2007 15:56:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Feb 2007 15:56:56 -0000 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 15:56:54 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqa8g6+9381@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <643756.52199.qm@web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.55 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: decent domesticable animals in America(was: Re: Survival of American megafauna?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=wL_DwrhdEyyVE5_ohxerT8G-f0xkvQKpQbSa61c4EQtRL80FBmdN X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: >---tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> wrote: >>Take a look at: >>http://www.worlddreambank.org/J/JAREDIA.HTM >>http://worlddreambank.org/J/JAREDIA.JPG >>http://worlddreambank.org/T/TILT.HTM > >Fascinating! Did you happen to take a look at the rest of http://worlddreambank.org/P/PLANETS.HTM ?
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 06 21:10:58 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5132 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2007 05:10:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Feb 2007 05:10:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.71) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Feb 2007 05:10:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 53000 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Feb 2007 05:10:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Qm5fTy4VM1nsJkfPaKuqPH_qxJNZKUFdNvZ_iv.4S7w_BQ3Srxdi.LoL2zNCSYgjY7OAXrLwblEHm7P.WKaeOwFasosdzKZPob69TBmBq74cvmKVMsalzM.vacaehNGYanIyAQsZ Received: from [67.64.146.65] by web26708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 07 Feb 2007 05:10:37 GMT Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 05:10:37 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqa8g6+9381@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <975240.50846.qm@web26708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] decent domesticable animals in America(was: Re: Survival of American megafauna?) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=tD2lJbuUWRQ-GOnKm2E7uejik1yIqlOKR2kOj8uo-4IM9pT5xRthUg X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > Did you happen to take a look at the rest of > http://worlddreambank.org/P/PLANETS.HTM > ? > Whoever created them is a genius! I especially love the images & maps - superb! Interestingly, I played the tilt-the-axis game myself to a limited degree. I once began to envision a world where the prime-meridian/180-degree line became the equator... One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 07 19:44:58 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11193 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 03:44:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 03:44:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.69) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 03:44:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 45744 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Feb 2007 03:44:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZnmSWbMVM1n2j81D1F5AZPcyzLpopjr9R2W1PIzJtGbcW_UMdBvrrYLsSsBD6dpGWw-- Received: from [64.123.188.71] by web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 03:44:54 GMT Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 03:44:54 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <343344.45495.qm@web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=v4V8QWHkVhV5hm5bIknqkQZCOBNdB85j0dbWzzJIBgXIhBILdmp7Vg X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood Ok, given various Pleistocene survivals being possible, these are some of the potentially domesticable animals of the New World: Equids: There were at least 5 New World species of _Equus_, none of which were known in the Old World. I should think at least 1 or 2 of these are domstricable, but potentially all of them. Bovids: Bison aren't really all that domesticable. I guess it's possible that _Bison antuquus_ was more amenable to taming, but I doubt it. So no oxen or cattle. Bighorn Sheep & Rocky Mountain Goat: I don't know. I suspect that the mountain goat is untamable, but perhaps the Bighorn Sheep might be a possibility? Camelids: Llamas and their relatives still inhabit South America, and ISTR that there were Pleistocene Llamas in North America too. Yesterday's Camel, _Camelops hesternus_ was native to North America. Cervids: Caribou/Reindeer are domesticated in the Old World, but I don't know whether they have been in the New World *here or not. Apart from that, deer are generally too easily scared to make good domestic animals. But there were extinct forms of deer. I doubt that they would have been any more domesticable than our modern-day deer, though. Porcines: Peccaries. Those currently extant are pretty much restricted to the jungle, but were there North American peccaries with a greater tolerance for other habitats? Birds: The turkey was domesticated by the Mesoamerican civilisations *here. But what about other birds? Geese and ducks seem the best bet, but perhaps quail or some kind of grouse or pheasant might be domesticable? What about the Rhea? Others: Mammoths- I have no idea. Elephants aren't exactly domesticated, but they are certainly tamable. Guinea pigs- as *here Macrauchenia- a South American oddity that seems to have gone extinct at the end of the Pleistocene. It seems to have looked like a camel with a trunk, and belonged to a third ungulate group, neither perissodactyla nor artiodactyla. Who knows wheher it even survived long enough to be domesticable? Can anyone else think of any others? So we have a variety of equines, possibly partially replacing oxen as draught, meat and dairy animals. You don't get huge udders on equines, but Central Asian peoples & Mongolians drink horse milk all the time. And you'll potentially get different breeds for meat, milk, burden-bearing and riding. Camels are also milkable (and Llamas?), and can be ridden, can carry huge weights and are edible. They can't generally pull a plough, though. [If you have plough horses, would maize agriculture have taken off in quite the way it did, or would another grain or pseudo-cereal have become the dominant crop?] Help appreciated, Geoff ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From jeffwilson63@frii.com Wed Feb 07 20:04:04 2007 Return-Path: <jeffwilson63@frii.com> X-Sender: jeffwilson63@frii.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73819 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 04:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 04:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.frii.com) (216.17.128.161) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 04:04:03 -0000 Received: from [4.228.27.241] (dialup-4.228.27.241.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.228.27.241]) by mail.frii.com (FRII) with ESMTP id F16BDAE842 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 7 Feb 2007 21:02:23 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <45CAA0CE.9030902@frii.com> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 21:02:22 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com References: <343344.45495.qm@web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <343344.45495.qm@web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 216.17.128.161 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@frii.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193537240; y=sQn8Mdd8Ru2mttM3Dv8HRgPjisn6Jthst8oNpPN2RGd4s2UU-hm8Lw X-Yahoo-Profile: jeff_wilson63 Geoff Horswood wrote: > [If you have plough horses, would maize agriculture > have taken off in quite the way it did, or would > another grain or pseudo-cereal have become the > dominant crop?] There simply aren't any other grains. Wild rice is about the only possibility, but requires conditions not suitable for ploughing. Beyond that you have the various types of legumes, which I'm pretty sure are better off without plough. However, if potatoes can make the long trip up from the Andes, ploughing for purposes of harvesting would probably be useful. Of course, potatoes are difficult to preserve, and would encourage the formation of mini-states instead of the large centralized states. -- Jefferson http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 08 00:36:35 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60535 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 08:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 08:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.21) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 08:36:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 08:35:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 08:35:22 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:35:21 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqenc9+tt8j@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <343344.45495.qm@web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.21 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=EHz6jRZxBAy63uC0wr6tiDtUUgNBHs8mXnr9Q8h2SCHC8NDMSr2pcA X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > Ok, given various Pleistocene survivals being > possible, these are some of the potentially > domesticable animals of the New World: > > Equids: > There were at least 5 New World species of _Equus_, > none of which were known in the Old World. I should > think at least 1 or 2 of these are domstricable, but > potentially all of them. Possibly the largest ones would be best. > > Bovids: > Bison aren't really all that domesticable. I guess > it's possible that _Bison antuquus_ was more amenable > to taming, but I doubt it. So no oxen or cattle. > Bighorn Sheep & Rocky Mountain Goat: I don't know. I > suspect that the mountain goat is untamable, but > perhaps the Bighorn Sheep might be a possibility? > Yes, but Old World cattle were decended from Aurochs though. > Camelids: > Llamas and their relatives still inhabit South > America, and ISTR that there were Pleistocene Llamas > in North America too. > Yesterday's Camel, _Camelops hesternus_ was native to > North America. > Like I said before - Camel trains through Mexico anyone? :) > Cervids: > Caribou/Reindeer are domesticated in the Old World, > but I don't know whether they have been in the New > World *here* or not. Apart from that, deer are > generally too easily scared to make good domestic > animals. But there were extinct forms of deer. I > doubt that they would have been any more domesticable > than our modern-day deer, though. > Well, the're not that diferent, so it might be possible. > Porcines: > Peccaries. Those currently extant are pretty much > restricted to the jungle, but were there North > American peccaries with a greater tolerance for other > habitats? > > Birds: > The turkey was domesticated by the Mesoamerican > civilisations *here. But what about other birds? > Geese and ducks seem the best bet, but perhaps quail > or some kind of grouse or pheasant might be > domesticable? > What about the Rhea? > > Others: > Mammoths- I have no idea. Elephants aren't exactly > domesticated, but they are certainly tamable. > Guinea pigs- as *here* > Macrauchenia- a South American oddity that seems to > have gone extinct at the end of the Pleistocene. It > seems to have looked like a camel with a trunk, and > belonged to a third ungulate group, neither > perissodactyla nor artiodactyla. Who knows wheher it > even survived long enough to be domesticable? > > Can anyone else think of any others? > > So we have a variety of equines, possibly partially > replacing oxen as draught, meat and dairy animals. > You don't get huge udders on equines, but Central > Asian peoples & Mongolians drink horse milk all the > time. And you'll potentially get different breeds for > meat, milk, burden-bearing and riding. > Camels are also milkable (and Llamas?), and can be > ridden, can carry huge weights and are edible. They > can't generally pull a plough, though. > > [If you have plough horses, would maize agriculture > have taken off in quite the way it did, or would > another grain or pseudo-cereal have become the > dominant crop?] > > Help appreciated, > > Geoff > ===== > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html >
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 08 03:06:33 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74358 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 11:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 11:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.66) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 11:05:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 17522 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Feb 2007 11:04:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Nr7.uuIVM1kxzmY0R2zs_FCsq3V3BR__ddMzrCNOgyUYRqCrRrzF691UF5XUtcrY9w-- Received: from [66.139.199.123] by web26703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 11:04:55 GMT Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:04:55 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <45CAA0CE.9030902@frii.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <5955.16934.qm@web26703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.66 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=0rC4Kc9SdLqqH3zMks8z8minhq__72irNbPkxCM0B9oduocKJIu5Mw X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood According to Wikipedia, there are several, actually, beginning with wild rice and going through little barley (cultivated by some Native Americans pre-1492), quinoa, maygrass, and several pseudo-cereals such as grain amaranth, goatsfoot, knotweed and sunflowers. --- Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@frii.com> wrote: > Geoff Horswood wrote: > > > [If you have plough horses, would maize > agriculture > > have taken off in quite the way it did, or would > > another grain or pseudo-cereal have become the > > dominant crop?] > > There simply aren't any other grains. Wild rice is > about the > only possibility, but requires conditions not > suitable for > ploughing. Beyond that you have the various types > of legumes, > which I'm pretty sure are better off without plough. > However, if > potatoes can make the long trip up from the Andes, > ploughing for > purposes of harvesting would probably be useful. Of > course, > potatoes are difficult to preserve, and would > encourage the > formation of mini-states instead of the large > centralized states. > > -- > Jefferson > http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/ > ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 08 03:15:33 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75544 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 11:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 11:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.68) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 11:14:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 52122 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Feb 2007 11:14:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20070208111416.52120.qmail@web26711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.139.199.123] by web26711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 11:14:16 GMT Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:14:16 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqenc9+tt8j@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=K6VbRNxbWWmNUZ3dMVaDuP7Bwyql6bPekGf1tsd0NcVt7yoJV0PPNQ X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood > <geoffhorswood@...> > wrote: > > > > Ok, given various Pleistocene survivals being > > possible, these are some of the potentially > > domesticable animals of the New World: > > > > Equids: > > There were at least 5 New World species of > _Equus_, > > none of which were known in the Old World. I > should > > think at least 1 or 2 of these are domstricable, > but > > potentially all of them. > > Possibly the largest ones would be best. > Agreed. Though in the Old World you have both horses (_E. caballus_) and donkeys (_E. asinus_). > > > > Bovids: > > Bison aren't really all that domesticable. I > guess > > it's possible that _Bison antuquus_ was more > amenable > > to taming, but I doubt it. So no oxen or cattle. > > Bighorn Sheep & Rocky Mountain Goat: I don't > know. I > > suspect that the mountain goat is untamable, but > > perhaps the Bighorn Sheep might be a possibility? > > > > Yes, but Old World cattle were decended from Aurochs > though. > Biologically speaking, sheep and goats (and most antelopes, come to think of it) are members of the Bovidae). The question remains: New World domestic sheep, anyone? Not to mention post-contact livestock breeders getting really puzzled as to why their Old World sheep and horses won't interbreed properly with their New World cousins. > > Camelids: > > Llamas and their relatives still inhabit South > > America, and ISTR that there were Pleistocene > Llamas > > in North America too. > > Yesterday's Camel, _Camelops hesternus_ was native > to > > North America. > > > > Like I said before - Camel trains through Mexico > anyone? :) > > > Cervids: > > Caribou/Reindeer are domesticated in the Old > World, > > but I don't know whether they have been in the New > > World *here* or not. Apart from that, deer are > > generally too easily scared to make good domestic > > animals. But there were extinct forms of deer. I > > doubt that they would have been any more > domesticable > > than our modern-day deer, though. > > > > Well, the're not that diferent, so it might be > possible. > Agreed. But most deer aren't herd animals. That's the difference with reindeer. Geoff ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From Montrei13@gmail.com Thu Feb 08 03:53:00 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 635 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 11:52:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 11:52:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.191) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 11:52:04 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a4so789326nfc for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 03:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.167.5 with SMTP id p5mr1292609bue.1170934286617; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 03:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.208.6 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Feb 2007 03:31:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7b9d11410702080331u58d3ae5of1daec9fd9a3ff0c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 03:31:26 -0800 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5955.16934.qm@web26703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <45CAA0CE.9030902@frii.com> <5955.16934.qm@web26703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.182.191 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=eUXJFrA06n-KOpfKP-8zD20nEWpSU97cGIZ3y0vDZIKkBAqi X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 2/8/07, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > According to Wikipedia, there are several, actually, > beginning with wild rice and going through little > barley (cultivated by some Native Americans pre-1492), > quinoa, maygrass, and several pseudo-cereals such as > grain amaranth, goatsfoot, knotweed and sunflowers. > In California, the tribes often used the seeds of a species of sage (Salvia) to make a kind of gelatinous dough called "Pinole" (now it's pronounced /pI'nol/, but the Spaniards would have said /pi'nole/). It is a different type from the commercial species (Salvia hispanica), Salvia columbariae. The seeds were ground and then mixed into a dough with cold water. I can imagine that Salvia columbariae could be selected for seed size and production, which wouldn't be too hard since the plant is an annual and wouldn't need years to mature to flowering. The name for both types is chia (and yes, this is where "Chia Pets" gets its name, the gelatinous nature of the soaked seeds helps it stick to the pots). I wonder also if maybe the native oaks could've been planted as plantations and the seeds harvested much like nut trees today? Certain oaks were favored over others in California, and one pseudo-oak, Lithocarpus (tanoak) was said to have the best tasting seeds. The acorns were a staple, like corn was for other tribes. It was ground, leached, and used as a type of flour. The only drawbacks are processing to get the tannic acid out, and the fact that the oaks go through mast years (one year can be incredibly abundant, the next meager). Perhaps selective breeding could've produced oaks that give acorns with little tannic acid and even flowering and fruiting?
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 08 06:22:52 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41727 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 14:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 14:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.105) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 14:21:08 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 14:19:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 14:19:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 14:19:43 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 14:19:40 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqfbhs+5do9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070208111416.52120.qmail@web26711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.105 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=GPrmVwBskfDZS7m23Rg8lJZjVnqzbhlxXbuZCYMfonhsjb-PjdSUog X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood > > <geoffhorswood@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Ok, given various Pleistocene survivals being > > > possible, these are some of the potentially > > > domesticable animals of the New World: > > > > > > Equids: > > > There were at least 5 New World species of > > _Equus_, > > > none of which were known in the Old World. I > > should > > > think at least 1 or 2 of these are domstricable, > > but > > > potentially all of them. > > > > Possibly the largest ones would be best. > > > > Agreed. Though in the Old World you have both horses > (_E. caballus_) and donkeys (_E. asinus_). > Well, there is that. Perhaps one large and one or two small species might do. > > > > > > Bovids: > > > Bison aren't really all that domesticable. I > > guess > > > it's possible that _Bison antuquus_ was more > > amenable > > > to taming, but I doubt it. So no oxen or cattle. > > > Bighorn Sheep & Rocky Mountain Goat: I don't > > know. I > > > suspect that the mountain goat is untamable, but > > > perhaps the Bighorn Sheep might be a possibility? > > > > > > > Yes, but Old World cattle were decended from Aurochs > > though. > > > > Biologically speaking, sheep and goats (and most > antelopes, come to think of it) are members of the > Bovidae). The question remains: New World domestic > sheep, anyone? > > Not to mention post-contact livestock breeders getting > really puzzled as to why their Old World sheep and > horses won't interbreed properly with their New World > cousins. > That's something to consider. However, the hair of the Genus Lama might also be suitable for textiles (especially the Alpaca and Guanaco). > > > Camelids: > > > Llamas and their relatives still inhabit South > > > America, and ISTR that there were Pleistocene > > Llamas > > > in North America too. > > > Yesterday's Camel, _Camelops hesternus_ was native > > to > > > North America. > > > > > > > Like I said before - Camel trains through Mexico > > anyone? :) > > > > > Cervids: > > > Caribou/Reindeer are domesticated in the Old > > World, > > > but I don't know whether they have been in the New > > > World *here* or not. Apart from that, deer are > > > generally too easily scared to make good domestic > > > animals. But there were extinct forms of deer. I > > > doubt that they would have been any more > > domesticable > > > than our modern-day deer, though. > > > > > > > Well, the're not that diferent, so it might be > > possible. > > > > Agreed. But most deer aren't herd animals. That's > the difference with reindeer. > I thought that all members of the Order Artiodactyla were herd animals to some extent. > Geoff >
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Thu Feb 08 12:03:32 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 54553 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 20:00:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 20:00:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.25) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 20:00:57 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 20:00:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 20:00:50 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:00:49 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqfvhh+t7tj@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <343344.45495.qm@web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=fe_RadWqEeEIuG1wkZNEOHGHYvi9PUKSOnfeKQUr7VgjiFVT5nof X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> >wrote: >[snipped a lot of interesting stuff] > Cervids: > Caribou/Reindeer are domesticated in the Old World, > but I don't know whether they have been in the New > World *here or not. Apart from that, deer are > generally too easily scared to make good domestic > animals. But there were extinct forms of deer. I > doubt that they would have been any more domesticable > than our modern-day deer, though. >[snipped the rest of the interesting stuff] Elk have actually been used as mounts. (I can't imagine trying to ride a kangaroo except as a rodeo trick, but I've seen pictures of young boys and girls and young men and women riding saddled-and- bridled elk.) Are mooses kind of hard to tame, or does anyone know? There are five characteristics that make for domesticability; a species needs to have a good bit of most of them, to be domesticable. I don't know where to find the list, so I'm guessing it's the following; but I could be wrong, so, correct it if you think it's wrong. 1) hardiness 2) ability to tolerate (e.g. to eat, to sleep, to reproduce, to work) the presence of others of their own species 3) ability to tolerate the presence of humans 4) ability to tolerate the presence of other domesticated species 5) ability to subsist on the diets their owners can provide them. 5a) mostly plants 5b) for a particular animal, not much variety 5c) for the species, a lot of variety Carnivores start out with two strikes against them, since they make other animals nervous and are harder to feed. One reason people breed mules is that donkeys do not have characteristic 2 but they have a lot more of characteristics 1 and 5 than horses have, while horses have a lot of characteristics 2, 3, and 4.
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Thu Feb 08 12:08:13 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70139 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 20:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 20:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 20:06:05 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 20:03:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 20:03:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 20:03:02 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 20:03:02 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqfvlm+qin5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <45CAA0CE.9030902@frii.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.123 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=I93aG19DEei9bPAmg4cAGmGmQM-0fV1dza3sf4jkhFyuQHkB0M4k X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@...> wrote: >[snip] > There simply aren't any other grains. >[snip] There was ameranth, which was suppressed by the Catholics (or should I say the Christians?) for religious reasons.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Thu Feb 08 15:58:26 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42798 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2007 23:48:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Feb 2007 23:48:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Feb 2007 23:48:07 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 23:48:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 23:48:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Feb 2007 23:48:07 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:48:05 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqgcrl+c8re@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eqfvlm+qin5@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.167 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=Bg5bofM7KkjPuduk9raiSK-cldKK9a0KwCbyaca1e8o58PU6MQ X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@> > wrote: > >[snip] > > There simply aren't any other grains. > >[snip] > There was ameranth, which was suppressed by the Catholics (or should I > say the Christians?) for religious reasons. > Do tell more. What religious reasons?
From taalenmaple@yahoo.com Thu Feb 08 16:12:15 2007 Return-Path: <taalenmaple@yahoo.com> X-Sender: taalenmaple@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 57248 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 00:06:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 00:06:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com) (66.196.97.114) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 00:06:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 20673 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2007 00:06:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SYT0OpoVM1nyaZUST6_PqGk7yw8dkcc570d.XyH8tItKgo3FuKXv81HwEbL_tGphRMjDnu.MP27RXzi0kKTJ8TwTSmX1.MSLKOBhZGc4HJ67h6EAj8MbKHc5Pzod66wWzlGrH52dTn5agGM- Received: from [74.92.219.157] by web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Feb 2007 16:06:23 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/368.7 YahooMailWebService/0.6.132.7 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:06:23 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1655663974-1170979583=:18109" Message-ID: <289516.18109.qm@web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.196.97.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Aidan Grey <taalenmaple@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=130788534; y=bCNuZUbGXMmma9ftCboQoF1ToitMyx79FG_hTBoHs17DkRQg1TE X-Yahoo-Profile: taalenmaple --0-1655663974-1170979583=:18109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

--- In conculture@yahoogro ups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@ ...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogro ups.com, Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@ > > wrote: > >[snip] > > There simply aren't any other grains. > >[snip] > There was ameranth, which was suppressed by the Catholics (or should I > say the Christians?) for religious reasons. > Do tell more. What religious reasons?


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From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 08 19:42:30 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99697 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 03:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 03:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.70) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 03:34:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 84949 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2007 03:34:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20070209033405.84947.qmail@web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: g3gUUP0VM1msa2lQHsyEXFlqBllLgJKZyKWfm5d4XoGQbbmyMkweRV5LkX1FxJ562f9E3g0kMKDAlh8ThSHhFA5wq1Z0KbaJSz7pNb0cjt_7DVxxhKIFvT3i3yhLR6POFQQuYkfn Received: from [66.141.168.154] by web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 03:34:05 GMT Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 03:34:05 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <289516.18109.qm@web57010.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=zRtj0-JgzdWCLPkOfbcQdHMTLM0Yw27oZOIa4fG1NgDyHq_P9co3Lw X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Aidan Grey <taalenmaple@yahoo.com> wrote: > Amaranth was central to certain cult practices in > Meso-America. The Aztecs made cakes of amaranth and > blood from human sacrifices, for example. > [snip] The early (Catholic) missionaries thought that this looked far too much like a black mass, or at least, that it was far too close to the Eucharist for their comfort, so they basically banned its use and burned all the fields of it that they could find. ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 08 19:45:04 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95754 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 03:36:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 03:36:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.72) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 03:36:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 63561 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2007 03:36:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20070209033641.63559.qmail@web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: TQrpiDsVM1mLhswOOzkqsnUIL.zoxxsCUdV45EBnCjk20pSBuI.v_YNpm8VZd6XwYPcBw7XJGGHVWA.TmjLh8Tpyr2PnYAS06Rn61ak6HOOJxIVe6ITqrPCXnmCkr1KzQzMqAS5Y26vy4okfJ2tvH9sTV_k- Received: from [66.141.168.154] by web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 03:36:40 GMT Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 03:36:40 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <7b9d11410702080331u58d3ae5of1daec9fd9a3ff0c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=OYa_qw_xzdXY3O4DYBzqEf-ZHUlIQXhqSAsqVRR8T-z0OFBf4ey5Og X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Barry Garcia <Montrei13@gmail.com> wrote: > On 2/8/07, Geoff Horswood > <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > According to Wikipedia, there are several, > actually, > > beginning with wild rice and going through little > > barley (cultivated by some Native Americans > pre-1492), > > quinoa, maygrass, and several pseudo-cereals such > as > > grain amaranth, goatsfoot, knotweed and > sunflowers. > > > > > In California, the tribes often used the seeds of a > species of sage > (Salvia) to make a kind of gelatinous dough called > "Pinole" (now it's > pronounced /pI'nol/, but the Spaniards would have > said /pi'nole/). It > is a different type from the commercial species > (Salvia hispanica), > Salvia columbariae. The seeds were ground and then > mixed into a dough > with cold water. I can imagine that Salvia > columbariae could be > selected for seed size and production, which > wouldn't be too hard > since the plant is an annual and wouldn't need years > to mature to > flowering. The name for both types is chia (and yes, > this is where > "Chia Pets" gets its name, the gelatinous nature of > the soaked seeds > helps it stick to the pots). > Thanks for the info. > I wonder also if maybe the native oaks could've been > planted as > plantations and the seeds harvested much like nut > trees today? Certain > oaks were favored over others in California, and one > pseudo-oak, > Lithocarpus (tanoak) was said to have the best > tasting seeds. The > acorns were a staple, like corn was for other > tribes. It was ground, > leached, and used as a type of flour. > > The only drawbacks are processing to get the tannic > acid out, and the > fact that the oaks go through mast years (one year > can be incredibly > abundant, the next meager). Perhaps selective > breeding could've > produced oaks that give acorns with little tannic > acid and even > flowering and fruiting? The other main drawback is the length of time it thakes oak trees to mature. Selective breeding would be a very slow process. ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 08 19:49:02 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70821 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 03:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 03:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26705.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.68) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 03:40:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 34963 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2007 03:40:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20070209034045.34961.qmail@web26705.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: GySZCBsVM1mJ._vMKD2NaB1bUFu1sPthuNYgOdEasfy8hhV6DWUsUpAZlfHVao9C3GCrtrNQIlH154oE.xcwcf07.dMS_o0nH5sU3jsE8O2VgRkWPea1dWj9XvOcgTW1zaUbtnTe Received: from [66.141.168.154] by web26705.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 03:40:45 GMT Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 03:40:45 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqfvhh+t7tj@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=j7_968htcUc2kRgZaXc48DTjJpvm6-8UnDS7CaycZ3m7ofCnndZy3g X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood > <geoffhorswood@...> > >wrote: > >[snipped a lot of interesting stuff] > > Cervids: > > Caribou/Reindeer are domesticated in the Old > World, > > but I don't know whether they have been in the New > > World *here or not. Apart from that, deer are > > generally too easily scared to make good domestic > > animals. But there were extinct forms of deer. I > > doubt that they would have been any more > domesticable > > than our modern-day deer, though. > >[snipped the rest of the interesting stuff] > > Elk have actually been used as mounts. (I can't > imagine trying to > ride a kangaroo except as a rodeo trick, but I've > seen pictures of > young boys and girls and young men and women riding > saddled-and- > bridled elk.) > Are mooses kind of hard to tame, or does anyone > know? > > There are five characteristics that make for > domesticability; a > species needs to have a good bit of most of them, to > be domesticable. > I don't know where to find the list, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication > so I'm guessing > it's the > following; but I could be wrong, so, correct it if > you think it's > wrong. > 1) hardiness > 2) ability to tolerate (e.g. to eat, to sleep, to > reproduce, to work) > the presence of others of their own species > 3) ability to tolerate the presence of humans > 4) ability to tolerate the presence of other > domesticated species > 5) ability to subsist on the diets their owners can > provide them. > 5a) mostly plants > 5b) for a particular animal, not much variety > 5c) for the species, a lot of variety > ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Fri Feb 09 03:14:43 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 38441 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 11:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 11:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11e.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.71) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 11:14:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 11:13:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 11:13:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:13:02 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqhkvu+408t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.162.179 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=YVffCxOQ6-qw2OR1AlLRUr5R0RgySwbnhwOiiRczpDFxarXznuww X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno Hi everybody! What do you all think about de-proposing the following articles? Abdul Karim Qassim http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim Gamal Abdel Nasser http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser Saddaam Hussayn http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn Shukri al-Kuwatli http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli I will be waiting for your opinions. Pedro Moderno
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 09 04:15:05 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78559 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 12:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 12:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.102) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 12:12:03 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n9.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 12:11:43 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 12:11:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 12:11:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:11:42 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqhodu+goro@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eqhkvu+408t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.102 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=j4GjFylSsF0N38dDLQvkgBDVj-GkGi8fdrHsQielaX9eS-VTbG4UWQ X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> wrote: > > Hi everybody! > > What do you all think about de-proposing the following articles? > > Abdul Karim Qassim > http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim > > Gamal Abdel Nasser > http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser > > Saddaam Hussayn > http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn > > Shukri al-Kuwatli > http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli > > I will be waiting for your opinions. > I have no objections. > Pedro Moderno >
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Fri Feb 09 05:18:20 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35500 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 13:06:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 13:06:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52024.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.58) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 13:06:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 46905 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2007 13:05:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20070209130546.46903.qmail@web52024.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 4pDr2RwVM1mf7qiB7pLB7T_HkUT_FSugeou.L7k9LpUSmcDt_W4.ZWdW7pssSeVSug-- Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52024.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 05:05:46 PST Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 05:05:46 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqhodu+goro@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.58 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=ZWN_ya5D2-cjIjN40MdJe4FqWru7DwUihvFxhZs8tgQkr8b4 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro > Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> > wrote: > > > > Hi everybody! > > > > What do you all think about de-proposing the > following articles? > > > > Abdul Karim Qassim > > http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim > > > > Gamal Abdel Nasser > > http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser > > > > Saddaam Hussayn > > http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn > > > > Shukri al-Kuwatli > > http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli > > > > I will be waiting for your opinions. > > > > I have no objections. I have no particular objections either. I would only note that dates are inconsistent. They should be given in (standard) western first, and then in whatever local calendar is used. Exceptions, of course, would be quoted texts as translated from local sources, where the reverse should be the case. The reason for this is to alleviate and prevent as much confusion as possible, and to offer information in a consistent fashion. In other words, while WE are aware of different dating conventions in IB, casual readers might not be. Padraic > > Pedro Moderno Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Fri Feb 09 09:01:36 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18033 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 16:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 16:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.25) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 16:56:25 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 16:55:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 16:55:58 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 16:55:57 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqi92t+qms1@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070209033641.63559.qmail@web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: American native domesticable plants (was: American native domesticable animals) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=KiMJDlgwt5QPBhdTa2kXG4o4G7gRXhw3-ppPg2LIUzFC6fE5xv2N X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> >wrote: >---Barry Garcia <Montrei13@...> wrote: >>[snip] >>I wonder also if maybe the native oaks could've been planted as >>plantations and the seeds harvested much like nut trees today? >>Certain oaks were favored over others in California, and one pseudo- >>oak, Lithocarpus (tanoak) was said to have the best tasting seeds. >>The acorns were a staple, like corn was for other tribes. It was >>ground, leached, and used as a type of flour. >>The only drawbacks are processing to get the tannic acid out, and >>the fact that the oaks go through mast years (one year can be >>incredibly abundant, the next meager). Perhaps selective breeding >>could've produced oaks that give acorns with little tannic acid and >>even flowering and fruiting? > >The other main drawback is the length of time it takes oak trees to >mature. Selective breeding would be a very slow process. There was a story (a novella or novelette) published in Analog or one of the other SF magazines in the last 12 months (I think) about an alternate history in which a _natural_ mutation of low-tannin oaks was _discovered_ at the beginning of the Neolithic. The story was about a problem of global _cooling_, rather than global warming, due to the fact that agriculture resulted in much more forest and much less grassland than would have been the case naturally. Another P.o.D. was that cars used wood-burning steam-engines rather than petroleum-burning "explosion" (internal-combustion) engines. I'm sorry I don't know exactly which magazine or exactly which issue or the story's exact title or the author's name.
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Fri Feb 09 09:13:46 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84485 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 17:13:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 17:13:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 17:13:38 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 17:13:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 17:13:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 17:13:38 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:13:38 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqia42+no44@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eqhkvu+408t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=-zWSvbWiqmo99whvcV2j_84Ihp4ehxoegj7GZH5wYmasDVPwSCVe X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> >wrote: >Hi everybody! >What do you all think about de-proposing the following articles? > >Abdul Karim Qassim http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim >Gamal Abdel Nasser http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser >Saddaam Hussayn http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn >Shukri al-Kuwatli http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli > >I will be waiting for your opinions. >Pedro Moderno Does "de-proposing" mean upgrading them to QSS? Or does it mean down- grading them to "never mind"?
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Fri Feb 09 09:16:25 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99589 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 17:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 17:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.170) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 17:09:12 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n8.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 17:08:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 17:08:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Feb 2007 17:08:33 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:08:32 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqi9qg+vr6g@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070209034045.34961.qmail@web26705.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.170 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: American native domesticable animals X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=r1O1MncvqldVn9lyPwb13sHA-LVWpkQ4cgcJ4r2O3bQ4-C0oor0i X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> >wrote: >---tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> wrote: >>[snip] >>There are five characteristics that make for domesticability; a >>species needs to have a good bit of most of them, to be >>domesticable. I don't know where to find the list, >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication Thanks, that's a good one. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication#Domestication_of_animals the following: "Domestication of animals "According to evolutionary biologist Jared Diamond, animal species "must meet "six (6, not 5 as I said) "criteria in order to be considered for domestication: "1. Flexible diet — [snip] "2. Reasonably fast growth rate — [snip] "3. Ability to be bred in captivity — [snip] "4. Pleasant disposition — [snip] "5. Temperament which makes it unlikely to panic — [snip] "6. Modifiable social hierarchy — [snip] >>so I'm guessing it's the following; but I could be wrong, so, >>correct it if you think it's wrong. >>1) hardiness >>2) ability to tolerate (e.g. to eat, to sleep, to reproduce, to >>work) the presence of others of their own species >>3) ability to tolerate the presence of humans >>4) ability to tolerate the presence of other domesticated species >>5) ability to subsist on the diets their owners can provide them. >>5a) mostly plants >>5b) for a particular animal, not much variety >>5c) for the species, a lot of variety My 5 is like Diamond's 1. I didn't really have anything much like Diamond's 2. My 2 and 3 are like Diamond's 3. My 4 is like Diamond's 4. My 3 is like Diamond's 5. I may not have had anything really like Diamond's 6.
From draqonfayir@juno.com Fri Feb 09 10:41:37 2007 Return-Path: <draqonfayir@juno.com> X-Sender: draqonfayir@juno.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 27971 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 18:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 18:40:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.63) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 18:40:42 -0000 Received: from [24.199.89.32] (helo=[192.168.0.101]) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HFafV-0006wx-EE for conculture@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:40:21 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <eqia42+no44@eGroups.com> References: <eqia42+no44@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <27D3996C-F521-4AA3-8845-4F7A1CC1CD66@juno.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:39:55 -0500 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-ELNK-Trace: 28f350e158e2897e776432462e451d7bd15d05d9470ff710a3ae256eeb5f23e6dc9e0b8bf3758552350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.63 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@juno.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2152659; y=2b1h3rJB5QJ3-0Z794d53_bbb4WoN4FG6uRXuIe4J-o_QfiqZU0Z X-Yahoo-Profile: boroparkpyro On Feb 9, 2007, at 12:13 PM, tomhchappell wrote: > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> >> wrote: >> Hi everybody! >> What do you all think about de-proposing the following articles? >> >> Abdul Karim Qassim http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim >> Gamal Abdel Nasser http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser >> Saddaam Hussayn http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn >> Shukri al-Kuwatli http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli >> >> I will be waiting for your opinions. >> Pedro Moderno > Does "de-proposing" mean upgrading them to QSS? Or does it mean down- > grading them to "never mind"? It means upgrading. -Stephen (Steg)
From Montrei13@gmail.com Fri Feb 09 13:52:22 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91772 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 21:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 21:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.184) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 21:51:55 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h2so1328237nfe for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:39:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.48.13 with SMTP id v13mr1780776nfv.1171056553180; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 13:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.208.6 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:29:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7b9d11410702091329p53be1bbfg9c80e89b2d0f1614@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:29:13 -0800 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqi92t+qms1@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070209033641.63559.qmail@web26709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <eqi92t+qms1@eGroups.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.182.184 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] American native domesticable plants (was: American native domesticable animals) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=62R7M1W_BnNLpKe32DT7yMzKjUtfDUpX1VXdOPDJzLyslMvi X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 2/9/07, tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > > There was a story (a novella or novelette) published in Analog or one > of the other SF magazines in the last 12 months (I think) about an > alternate history in which a _natural_ mutation of low-tannin oaks > was _discovered_ at the beginning of the Neolithic. The story was > about a problem of global _cooling_, rather than global warming, due > to the fact that agriculture resulted in much more forest and much > less grassland than would have been the case naturally. Another > P.o.D. was that cars used wood-burning steam-engines rather than > petroleum-burning "explosion" (internal-combustion) engines. I'm > sorry I don't know exactly which magazine or exactly which issue or > the story's exact title or the author's name. That's very interesting. I know that you can actually buy acorn flour (used with wheat flour it creates a kind of purplish pink bread), and modern processing would easily get the tannins out, but the tannins makes using acorns from a backyard tree a lot of work for an individual. If there were low or no tannin acorns, I imagine they could be eaten like nuts (you'd have to protect the trees from all of the wildlife which would go crazy over such a tree, though). There is one other tree which think would have the potential to be a good food source if its seeds did not need to be processed. Aesculus californica makes copious amounts of large seeds, which ripen by fall (in fact, in a wood of these trees, you have to be careful to not get hit by falling seeds, as they are somewhat heavy. The falling seeds are easily heard, and often litter the ground like stones (they are often sprouting by the time you find them). However, the seeds are full of saponins, and the nectar of the flowers are actually toxic to honeybees (the flowers are beautiful, 6 inch long spikes of sweetly scented pink and white blossoms). The seeds were used to stupefy fish for easy fishing. But, in times when the oaks were lean with their crops, the seeds would be pounded, and then leached of their saponins and used as an emergency food. Supposedly the flour was poor tasting (probably due to incomplete leaching of saponins). The seeds are essentially all protein, if Plants For a Future is correct: 0 Calories per 100g Water: 0% Protein: 23g; Fat: 0g; Carbohydrate: 0g; Fibre: 0g; Ash: 0g; Minerals - Calcium: 0mg; Phosphorus: 0mg; Iron: 0mg; Magnesium: 0mg; Sodium: 0mg; Potassium: 0mg; Zinc: 0mg; Vitamins - A: 0mg; Thiamine (B1): 0mg; Riboflavin (B2): 0mg; Niacin: 0mg; B6: 0mg; C: 0mg; So, a carbohydrate would need to be used. In wet areas, the roots of cattails could be used (Typha), but in drier areas, Chlorogalum (soap lily) could be used. These were baked to remove the saponins, and they can grow to about 3 inches/7 cm in width. These can be cultivated, and they tolerate dry soils.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Fri Feb 09 14:06:14 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51134 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2007 22:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Feb 2007 22:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52026.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.27) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Feb 2007 22:06:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 91914 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Feb 2007 22:04:54 -0000 Message-ID: <20070209220454.91912.qmail@web52026.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ysxsgVkVM1mkRBdUif6wt8d.qQYCPmqUOOw8zG4U0DQkzr6COO5UxTwmGi58ePhaUbHHIpagnFoiBUHOujVszfQ3bak5Bc8ogWUSgChHw.8lKIzEJV5fEvcLIsDQwU8J_KDrw_86e8guBB1VoTck34WJLR1pDri8RRJPRMvJvXSM42RIj4.F Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52026.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Feb 2007 14:04:54 PST Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:04:54 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <27D3996C-F521-4AA3-8845-4F7A1CC1CD66@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.27 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=ly1VlJpD8yjdksezqJt90p98JWJlKLd0WyX_aVZMK73OqGBF X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@juno.com> wrote: > On Feb 9, 2007, at 12:13 PM, tomhchappell > wrote: > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro > Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> > >> wrote: > >> Hi everybody! > >> What do you all think about de-proposing the > following articles? > >> > >> Abdul Karim Qassim > http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim > >> Gamal Abdel Nasser > http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser > >> Saddaam Hussayn > http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn > >> Shukri al-Kuwatli > http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli > >> > >> I will be waiting for your opinions. > >> Pedro Moderno > > > Does "de-proposing" mean upgrading them to > QSS? Or does it mean down- > > grading them to "never mind"? > > It means upgrading. Indeed. If the articles were so far out of whack, there would simply be a call to revamp them or remove them entirely. Or turn them into IB fiction. Padraic > > > -Stephen (Steg) > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Sat Feb 10 04:54:34 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30435 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2007 12:53:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2007 12:53:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.125) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2007 12:53:02 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2007 12:51:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2007 12:51:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Feb 2007 12:51:44 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:51:43 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqkf4v+n1q2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eqia42+no44@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.125 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.155.102 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=u4usV2l84F338BsuHAef7qkNbGc_RgkBJbdCu6DKRzZPFcugUonW X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno I was thinking in upgrading these articles to IB fiction, and as consequence to QSS. Pedro Moderno --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@> > >wrote: > >Hi everybody! > >What do you all think about de-proposing the following articles? > > > >Abdul Karim Qassim http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim > >Gamal Abdel Nasser http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser > >Saddaam Hussayn http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn > >Shukri al-Kuwatli http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli > > > >I will be waiting for your opinions. > >Pedro Moderno > > Does "de-proposing" mean upgrading them to QSS? Or does it mean down- > grading them to "never mind"? >
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Feb 10 07:24:06 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51999 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2007 15:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Feb 2007 15:15:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52027.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.28) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Feb 2007 15:15:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 61444 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Feb 2007 15:04:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20070210150402.61442.qmail@web52027.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: kReM5jkVM1nod1Lk8ofWIJaVXQUjt9ayyvhx8zOlBRrTQYWqHHw4710cgJlSPtt.y6983tWup17jf_XAQdfMfFUUIJ_i0vG5RhyN4IQ9llzD_L.nMPR6zPacg2sgDwAFcV0Lm9amsSI9kq9YeRLvjt8tLvSBcNWnvRzm6CH8XZ4uNtlNet_. Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52027.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 10 Feb 2007 07:04:02 PST Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 07:04:02 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqkf4v+n1q2@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.28 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=2D9ILp-J3HAyITiIHDHpmC3O7PIDrCjGgzgCRQgpOlemywu8 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Pedro Moderno <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> wrote: > I was thinking in upgrading these articles to > IB fiction, and as consequence to QSS. Alright, now I'm confused! So it's your intention to make the information in these articles fictional??? I thought you were moving to have them formally accepted as factual! Padraic > > Pedro Moderno > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> > wrote: > > > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro > Moderno" <pedromoderno@> > > >wrote: > > >Hi everybody! > > >What do you all think about de-proposing the > following articles? > > > > > >Abdul Karim Qassim > http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim > > >Gamal Abdel Nasser > http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser > > >Saddaam Hussayn > http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn > > >Shukri al-Kuwatli > http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli > > > > > >I will be waiting for your opinions. > > >Pedro Moderno > > > > Does "de-proposing" mean upgrading them to > QSS? Or does it mean > down- > > grading them to "never mind"? > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sat Feb 10 19:34:01 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 70459 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2007 03:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2007 03:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.33) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2007 03:32:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2007 03:32:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2007 03:32:20 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 03:32:20 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqm2o4+ip98@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.33 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosmic News: Feb. 7-10 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=gkLbGD4LVuzKdGNY7SpEqqgs9xVp0sP9SUF2CK75hue-ILpiAQ X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 7 (FIU) GONG CITY, Northern Zone of Jinguo - The Merchants' Guild of Gong City have expressed their concern about the restoration of the Presidency in the Central Zone [of Jinguo] to former Assemblyman Xian. "The Guild feels," said Rotating Chairman Bi, "that the reputation of the office of President has received irreparable damage. It would, therefore, be inadvisable to restore that title until all Jinguo comes together." 8 (FIU) AMPHYPERNOTIAN SEA A Silver Emirate liquid oil ship has disappeared off the ice-bound Hypernotian coast. The Emirati wazir has accused Tawantinsuyu of industrial sabotage, which charge was coldly denied. 9 (FIU) VILHA DA PEDRU, Empire of Bragantina - Primeiro João Duarte has anounced that he will no longer seek a second term. 10 (Merfolk World) The High Judiciary has convicted Ákos, son of Iszák, for the sale of forty-one merfolk to criminals and future criminals. In light of the seriousness of the charges, the High Judiciary has determined that the condemned be devoured by Sea-Whisperers.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sat Feb 10 19:55:50 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75494 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2007 03:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Feb 2007 03:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.8) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Feb 2007 03:55:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2007 03:55:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Feb 2007 03:55:46 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 03:55:46 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqm442+491v@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070209033405.84947.qmail@web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Rites of Bloody Amaranth (was Re: American native domesticable animals) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=R2Qe2d5X9Fq3BRdZqdiBI3gxXpyt8n8B1EgXrIpjLJOEB5BK5w X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > --- Aidan Grey <taalenmaple@...> wrote: > > > Amaranth was central to certain cult practices in > > Meso-America. The Aztecs made cakes of amaranth and > > blood from human sacrifices, for example. > > > [snip] > > The early (Catholic) missionaries thought that this > looked far too much like a black mass, or at least, > that it was far too close to the Eucharist for their > comfort, so they basically banned its use and burned > all the fields of it that they could find. This is certainly a bone of contention between the Mexica Empire and the Patrimony of Corpus Christi in the FIU. In the Cambro-Mesican Empire of the Cambro-Mesican World (CMW), however, whence Gwenfrewi, Ayawisiwall, and Popopoyoll hail, I imagine the rites have melded - but there, of course, they worship El and Ashtoreth, so their analogue of Christianity is going to be quite different. > > > ===== > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. > http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evtD106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk >
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Feb 12 07:26:35 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31695 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2007 15:26:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2007 15:26:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52019.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.251) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2007 15:26:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 67994 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Feb 2007 15:20:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20070212152016.67992.qmail@web52019.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: AkVzqyAVM1n9s7GwW14hLIEvw_4J3dh_wLhXLRHZiJA.Adu.iAlArzWigXlPTNmBPgATUFdIAeI4ERca4LBcJfLehvNRNHqmHIs4zUSasIOJc0JdD5BHLE5VmXlUTeHmyvUQCMwiEy20o7sLLFeQfKsDUvvPwy7TK8UZuXqezCV9mUKihtgu Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52019.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:20:16 PST Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 07:20:16 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eq76rq+55h9@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=293OsiRnxQcKNSnUeV_l7Q5jhn_lSCwNu-1PZqb1i7BCdCFa X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff > > > Horswood <geoffhorswood@> wrote: > > > > I can just imagine it now - Caribbean City > > > States; a hydraulic empire > > > along the Mississippi; horse-riding nomads > > > along the Great Plains; > > > camel-trains across Mexico and Texas. :) I just want to say this has been a fascinating thread, and has provided lots of interesting source material to work with! The above is largely the case for the World. I haven't looked a whole lot at the World's America analogue, and the western world hasn't gone too deeply into the initerior as of yet. The Carthaginians _have_ met the "Caribbean city-states", though. I'm sure they'll be in for a surprise or two, if they survive the next few years. Of course, megafauna are a reality around the world, but the idea of a Mississippian cultural region is quite interesting. I'll have to look into it some more... > > > > Old World history would of course remain > > > > more or less > > > > the same, up until the two continental > > > > civilisations > > > > make contact. And who knows when that > > > >would be? > > > > > > Ooo, bad bad bad. The butterfly effect will > > > occur worldwide. Remember, we're dealing > > > with 15,000 to 20,000 years of divergence > > > here, so there's going to be a large amount > > > of diference. > > > > About 12,000 to 9,000 years is more like it, > > from what I've read. But yes, there's still > > going to be a lot of divergence. But human > > history doesn't happen in a vacuum. There > > has to be contact for divergence to > > transmit itself. I still think that the Old > > World will be more or less the same up until > > the point of contact. > > You seem to have misunderstood. Random events > are just that, random. > After thousands of years, the likelyhood that > Old World history is > going to be similar to *here* would be > vanishingly small. > > After all, there is *no* change whatsoever of > *any* important > historical figures from *here* existing at all > (not to mention the general population). > > People might migrate to diferent places, see > diferent things at > diferent times. The language divergence by > itself would be almost > incalculable not to mention the genetic > divergence from *here*. That depends very largely on the design principle used! The above is only true if you assume that everything that happens after the POD is randomoised. I think what he's getting at is the usual situation where a POD is chosen and all the rest of history before that time is the same (*here* and *there*) and that events subesquent to the POD are also the same until something causes them to differ. Similar to the IB design principle, which allows us to have many of the same physical people, but whose lives and cultures are very different. Under this design principle, Eurasian history would be unchanged until post-Columbian times, in which case, Columbus and his fellow explorers would meet even grander civilisations, and perhaps more enduring, and perhaps more threatening than he did *here*, thus affecting western history only after 1492 or so. Unless you posit that the Mississippian megaculture becomes seafaring, in which case all bets are off, and history might happen west to east in stead of east to west. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 12 08:28:00 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2761 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2007 16:23:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2007 16:22:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2007 16:22:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 16:22:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 16:22:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:22:29 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqq485+e0ch@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070212152016.67992.qmail@web52019.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.218 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=SaPMeRQnjmx79A7vpB3hAYDvypHMOfKQrqKxtIW0O9gKi1cjsguECw X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff > Horswood <geoffhorswood@> wrote: > > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff > > > > Horswood <geoffhorswood@> wrote: > > > > > > I can just imagine it now - Caribbean City > > > > States; a hydraulic empire > > > > along the Mississippi; horse-riding nomads > > > > along the Great Plains; > > > > camel-trains across Mexico and Texas. :) > > I just want to say this has been a fascinating > thread, and has provided lots of interesting > source material to work with! > Thanks. :) > The above is largely the case for the World. I > haven't looked a whole lot at the World's America > analogue, and the western world hasn't gone too > deeply into the initerior as of yet. The > Carthaginians _have_ met the "Caribbean > city-states", though. I'm sure they'll be in for > a surprise or two, if they survive the next few > years. > > Of course, megafauna are a reality around the > world, but the idea of a Mississippian cultural > region is quite interesting. I'll have to look > into it some more... > Glad I could help. I just thought the "mound-builders meet the Egyptians" was too hard to resist. > > > > > Old World history would of course remain > > > > > more or less > > > > > the same, up until the two continental > > > > > civilisations > > > > > make contact. And who knows when that > > > > >would be? > > > > > > > > Ooo, bad bad bad. The butterfly effect will > > > > occur worldwide. Remember, we're dealing > > > > with 15,000 to 20,000 years of divergence > > > > here, so there's going to be a large amount > > > > of diference. > > > > > > About 12,000 to 9,000 years is more like it, > > > from what I've read. But yes, there's still > > > going to be a lot of divergence. But human > > > history doesn't happen in a vacuum. There > > > has to be contact for divergence to > > > transmit itself. I still think that the Old > > > World will be more or less the same up until > > > the point of contact. > > > > You seem to have misunderstood. Random events > > are just that, random. > > After thousands of years, the likelyhood that > > Old World history is > > going to be similar to *here* would be > > vanishingly small. > > > > After all, there is *no* change whatsoever of > > *any* important > > historical figures from *here* existing at all > > (not to mention the general population). > > > > People might migrate to diferent places, see > > diferent things at > > diferent times. The language divergence by > > itself would be almost > > incalculable not to mention the genetic > > divergence from *here*. > > That depends very largely on the design principle > used! The above is only true if you assume that > everything that happens after the POD is > randomoised. I think what he's getting at is the > usual situation where a POD is chosen and all the > rest of history before that time is the same > (*here* and *there*) and that events subesquent > to the POD are also the same until something > causes them to differ. Similar to the IB design > principle, which allows us to have many of the > same physical people, but whose lives and > cultures are very different. > > Under this design principle, Eurasian history > would be unchanged until post-Columbian times, in > which case, Columbus and his fellow explorers > would meet even grander civilisations, and > perhaps more enduring, and perhaps more > threatening than he did *here*, thus affecting > western history only after 1492 or so. Unless you > posit that the Mississippian megaculture becomes > seafaring, in which case all bets are off, and > history might happen west to east in stead of > east to west. > While timelines like IB are weakly-divergent (and strongly convergent), and are, perhaps, easier to conceptualise, I prefer more strongly-divergent timelines, which are both more plausable, and allow more creative freedom. Not that there's anything wrong with IB- like timelines, but I still prefer ones that take the butterfly effect to its proper scope. (mmm, plausable, strongly-divergent timelines, drool) > Padraic > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . >
From dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com Mon Feb 12 11:24:32 2007 Return-Path: <dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 83745 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2007 19:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2007 19:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.215) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2007 19:24:31 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 19:22:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 19:22:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 19:22:58 -0000 X-Sender: dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71895 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2007 13:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2007 13:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.186) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2007 13:21:13 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n5.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 13:19:47 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 13:19:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 13:19:47 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:19:46 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqpphi+255j@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.131.143.166 From: "dubrovcanin2" <dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com> Subject: New member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298631720; y=_BveQ_hkwliKR5ubf2nSIErLCEBwfYzQjnofpkRKih336PL_q6j9 X-Yahoo-Profile: dubrovcanin2 X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 12 Feb 2007 19:22:57 -0000 I am interested in participating in developing "Croatia" nation in wiki..can you get me an account there and password??
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Mon Feb 12 11:26:41 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2558 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2007 19:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Feb 2007 19:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.53) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2007 19:26:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 19:26:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Feb 2007 19:26:02 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:26:00 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqqf08+mbn9@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eqpphi+255j@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.53 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: New member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=Fp7qWFPVG8oWbsZbmOZuMGQWby8mX-b3SCvNeGPyHxS4Ufm7 X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "dubrovcanin2" <dubrovcanin2@...> wrote: > > I am interested in participating in developing "Croatia" nation in > wiki..can you get me an account there and password?? > Well, we'd sure love to see what you have in mind; please go right ahead and write up a proposal for us here, and we can all settle down to "business!"
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Feb 12 18:02:23 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80316 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 02:02:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 02:02:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52029.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.30) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 02:02:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 79704 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Feb 2007 01:54:23 -0000 Message-ID: <20070213015422.79701.qmail@web52029.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ylZxp60VM1mwaP3ng8crGXYfv0WwBzEvb0yHEas0tY8udpbqXbjF1X8ic5s5IOCjMA-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52029.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:54:22 PST Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:54:22 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqqf08+mbn9@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.30 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: New member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=_M6M7_eS4dXtCqm7yHOO6v0Z_o7MAZB2WEzHUf5kGr0Dz8pL X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > "dubrovcanin2" <dubrovcanin2@...> > wrote: > > > > I am interested in participating in > developing "Croatia" nation in > > wiki..can you get me an account there and > password?? > > > Well, we'd sure love to see what you have in > mind; please go right > ahead and write up a proposal for us here, and > we can all settle down > to "business!" Please make sure you are familiar not only with what's been done with (presumably IB) Croatia already, but also with the project as a whole! Be sure to read up on our philosophy at (http://www.bethisad.com/principles.htm); and be sure to take a good long look at the link to "How It All Works" too. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Feb 12 18:33:22 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48053 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 02:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 02:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52021.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.253) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 02:32:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 37226 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Feb 2007 01:50:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20070213015058.37224.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Lf.3XKkVM1n_jTqg3KWx50I8E8_eOHLOJPJRxXJPXFda4coNfKgqNKnkVxKFol0snHiMKYwPeuZGBucby8O_5iRc6ahRa6RFAJAmQXJlSiuQxhIGCmwBHv1UVyCfJRTlavJ1SIUgPPd8BuCNw.4nIv9gRv2WNoeXVhILY6Ssns3VO8F5AvQ- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52021.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:50:58 PST Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:50:58 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqq485+e0ch@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.253 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=FjLt4hiiDDnZgnIeI3yqIy2aL3i95LabiUYpj_lfb735H_f7 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff > > Horswood <geoffhorswood@> wrote: > > > > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > Geoff > > > > > Horswood <geoffhorswood@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I can just imagine it now - Caribbean > City > > > > > States; a hydraulic empire > > > > > along the Mississippi; horse-riding > nomads > > > > > along the Great Plains; > > > > > camel-trains across Mexico and Texas. > :) > > > > I just want to say this has been a > fascinating > > thread, and has provided lots of interesting > > source material to work with! > > > > Thanks. :) You're welcome! Both you and Geoff have provided a lot of food for thought. > > The above is largely the case for the World. > I > > haven't looked a whole lot at the World's > America > > analogue, and the western world hasn't gone > too > > deeply into the initerior as of yet. The > > Carthaginians _have_ met the "Caribbean > > city-states", though. I'm sure they'll be in > for > > a surprise or two, if they survive the next > few > > years. > > > > Of course, megafauna are a reality around the > > world, but the idea of a Mississippian > cultural > > region is quite interesting. I'll have to > look > > into it some more... > > > > Glad I could help. I just thought the > "mound-builders meet the > Egyptians" was too hard to resist. I don't know if the World's Mississippians will be mound builders or not. Will remain to be seen. Probably something megalithic and impressive. [snip] > While timelines like IB are weakly-divergent > (and strongly > convergent), and are, perhaps, easier to > conceptualise, I prefer more > strongly-divergent timelines, which are both > more plausable, and > allow more creative freedom. To each his own! I think IB provides a lot of room for creative freedom. We've simply decided upon a particular framework or structure that points the energy in a particular direction. I think one of the draws of a weakly divergent timeline is the familiarity. While there is a lot of surface convergence, a lot of the underlying energies in that world are quite different!, to the point of making almost alien something that seems so familiar on the surface. We can see how the "flip side" of things might have become the mainstream. I also think the relative "plausibility" of either a weakly or strongly divergent timeline is debatable! That said, I am not at all against strongly divergent timelines. I would say the World is pretty strongly divergent, after all! ;))) > Not that there's > anything wrong with IB- > like timelines, but I still prefer ones that > take the butterfly > effect to its proper scope. (mmm, plausable, > strongly-divergent timelines, drool) Once again, to each his own! I think one thing that is in operation here is a difference regarding the "proper" scope of the butterfly effect. Perhaps a subtle v. potent butterfly effect? This is a very subjective thing to be sure! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Mon Feb 12 22:12:39 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16112 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 06:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 06:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.60) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 06:12:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 06:11:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 06:11:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 06:11:26 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqrkqe+3pai@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070210150402.61442.qmail@web52027.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.60 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.51.73 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=GNJLCGJFTe_4PM_TabJ_ChiW8un_24gY5IfiSdiQrYlCOwxogquq X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Pedro Moderno <pedromoderno@...> > wrote: > > > I was thinking in upgrading these articles to > > IB fiction, and as consequence to QSS. > > Alright, now I'm confused! So it's your intention > to make the information in these articles > fictional??? I thought you were moving to have > them formally accepted as factual! > > Padraic > > > Sorry, I think there's some problem of communication between us. Let me explain what I meant to say, and which caused you all that confusion: when I told "IB fiction" I was referring to facts on IB, which are fictional in our real world. As these are fictional I referred to it as fiction, although *there* (in IB Earth) our imagination is the reality. So my intention is to upgrade my proposals to IB facts. I hope you understand now. Pedro Moderno > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . >
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Mon Feb 12 22:14:03 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22338 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 06:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 06:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.124) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 06:14:02 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 06:13:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 06:13:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 06:13:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 06:13:44 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqrkuo+eem8@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eqpphi+255j@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.124 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.51.73 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: New member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=SVT0DMFbWC9YwwJPg77AXKcXSWo-cpVPMM8UtcCrYnJJ_C2EFXaR X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno Welcome. I'm hoping to see soon what you have in mind about Croatia. Pedro Moderno -- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "dubrovcanin2" <dubrovcanin2@...> wrote: > > I am interested in participating in developing "Croatia" nation in > wiki..can you get me an account there and password?? >
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 13 03:46:49 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1127 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 11:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 11:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.73) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 11:46:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 7243 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Feb 2007 11:06:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Sl2_CR4VM1kCdV8fuW2hKwPPWUXQU82ejDv_HShGtOq8Vkxz5Xd9piHA9hoa.wDBPA-- Received: from [66.141.171.71] by web26710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:06:39 GMT Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:06:39 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070212152016.67992.qmail@web52019.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <779948.98875.qm@web26710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.73 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=AddinskW2lc32iRW3I2VOU3pN2kQYDXxxtIFMig7UFi928gbTFVk-Q X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: [snip] > > I just want to say this has been a fascinating > thread, and has provided lots of interesting > source material to work with! > Thanks > The above is largely the case for the World. I > haven't looked a whole lot at the World's America > analogue, and the western world hasn't gone too > deeply into the initerior as of yet. The > Carthaginians _have_ met the "Caribbean > city-states", though. I'm sure they'll be in for > a surprise or two, if they survive the next few > years. > > Of course, megafauna are a reality around the > world, but the idea of a Mississippian cultural > region is quite interesting. I'll have to look > into it some more... > > > > > > Old World history would of course remain > > > > > more or less > > > > > the same, up until the two continental > > > > > civilisations > > > > > make contact. And who knows when that > > > > >would be? > > > > > > > > Ooo, bad bad bad. The butterfly effect will > > > > occur worldwide. Remember, we're dealing > > > > with 15,000 to 20,000 years of divergence > > > > here, so there's going to be a large amount > > > > of diference. > > > > > > About 12,000 to 9,000 years is more like it, > > > from what I've read. But yes, there's still > > > going to be a lot of divergence. But human > > > history doesn't happen in a vacuum. There > > > has to be contact for divergence to > > > transmit itself. I still think that the Old > > > World will be more or less the same up until > > > the point of contact. > > > > You seem to have misunderstood. Random events > > are just that, random. > > After thousands of years, the likelyhood that > > Old World history is > > going to be similar to *here* would be > > vanishingly small. > > > > After all, there is *no* change whatsoever of > > *any* important > > historical figures from *here* existing at all > > (not to mention the general population). > > > > People might migrate to diferent places, see > > diferent things at > > diferent times. The language divergence by > > itself would be almost > > incalculable not to mention the genetic > > divergence from *here*. > > That depends very largely on the design principle > used! The above is only true if you assume that > everything that happens after the POD is > randomoised. I think what he's getting at is the > usual situation where a POD is chosen and all the > rest of history before that time is the same > (*here* and *there*) and that events subesquent > to the POD are also the same until something > causes them to differ. Similar to the IB design > principle, which allows us to have many of the > same physical people, but whose lives and > cultures are very different. Exactly what I was meaning, yes. And expressed so much more clearly and concisely than I did. > > Under this design principle, Eurasian history > would be unchanged until post-Columbian times, in > which case, Columbus and his fellow explorers > would meet even grander civilisations, and > perhaps more enduring, and perhaps more > threatening than he did *here*, thus affecting > western history only after 1492 or so. Unless you > posit that the Mississippian megaculture becomes > seafaring, in which case all bets are off, and > history might happen west to east in stead of > east to west. > That's more or less what I was driving at. Changes don't happen in a vacuum, and randomising everything after the POD seems too much like violating cause and effect to me. Geoff ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Feb 13 03:48:08 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72125 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 11:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 11:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52028.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.29) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 11:48:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 97342 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Feb 2007 11:48:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20070213114803.97340.qmail@web52028.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: LasSkRUVM1m.ppA.77ahoUiyXa5wxBz8hJIXc8ELQVwh_NMUneEZcrhu44icDFDjadIj12NLIfsHFp33DKajldVfN85Rdm59aT.xoDGMFeRG0mezK5kUJV0ZMJHscr46l31j3i._hSzUZJlsdErpH12LXVbeOdR7j7TUi3U9nndJdco1.1Sw Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52028.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:48:03 PST Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:48:03 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqrkqe+3pai@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.29 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=EtlqSHLSNYIKBaTGy4PEKCA15LZOsRD7QnRbG2KOiH1-vRnc X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Pedro Moderno <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > --- Pedro Moderno <pedromoderno@...> > > wrote: > > > > > I was thinking in upgrading these articles > to > > > IB fiction, and as consequence to QSS. > > > > Alright, now I'm confused! So it's your > intention > > to make the information in these articles > > fictional??? I thought you were moving to > have > > them formally accepted as factual! > > > > Padraic > > > > > > Sorry, I think there's some problem of > communication between us. Let > me explain what I meant to say, and which > caused you all that > confusion: > when I told "IB fiction" I was referring to > facts on IB, which are > fictional in our real world. As these are > fictional I referred to it > as fiction, although *there* (in IB Earth) our > imagination is the > reality. > So my intention is to upgrade my proposals to > IB facts. I hope you understand now. Indeed. It was just a matter of confusion over terms, then, so no worries! We don't call IB facts "fiction", because we know IB is a fictional world -- a subcreation -- and there's little to be gained from belabouring the point. We call them "IB facts" because they're factual within that subcreation, not because they're factual in the primary world. Padraic > Pedro Moderno Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From Montrei13@gmail.com Tue Feb 13 03:49:35 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 50574 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 11:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 11:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.186) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 11:49:34 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l24so220674nfc for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.82.148.7 with SMTP id v7mr15195075bud.1171367281775; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.208.6 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:48:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7b9d11410702130348x61950ac4qe0d57e5ea4878ad4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:48:01 -0800 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070213015422.79701.qmail@web52029.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <eqqf08+mbn9@eGroups.com> <20070213015422.79701.qmail@web52029.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.182.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: New member X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=HSjtCoWGXdB1balESKxUcc_u0MCzP4FPnePz09ZmVUyFq_s5 X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 2/12/07, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > Please make sure you are familiar not only with > what's been done with (presumably IB) Croatia > already, but also with the project as a whole! Be > sure to read up on our philosophy at > (http://www.bethisad.com/principles.htm); and be > sure to take a good long look at the link to "How > It All Works" too. I cannot emphasise this enough. Please do take the time to read and familiarise yourself with IB, and what's been done with Croatia to see if what you're thinking will work with what has been established. One of our main "pillars" is that what is established rarely can be changed unless the group agrees on it. The fun here is to explain how things are the way they are. Welcome to IB, please enjoy your stay.
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 13 03:51:51 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61453 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 11:51:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 11:51:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11e.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.71) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 11:51:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 11:51:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 11:51:45 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:51:44 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqs8og+m98s@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <779948.98875.qm@web26710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=BJLHeEDiYXUEI9dBiRnLOUZSsjIc0rc4EKbt6OnuvDXCsCddiz-JnA X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > [snip] > > Under this design principle, Eurasian history > > would be unchanged until post-Columbian times, in > > which case, Columbus and his fellow explorers > > would meet even grander civilisations, and > > perhaps more enduring, and perhaps more > > threatening than he did *here*, thus affecting > > western history only after 1492 or so. Unless you > > posit that the Mississippian megaculture becomes > > seafaring, in which case all bets are off, and > > history might happen west to east in stead of > > east to west. > > > > That's more or less what I was driving at. Changes > don't happen in a vacuum, and randomising everything > after the POD seems too much like violating cause and > effect to me. > On the contrary. I never said randomise everything after the PoD, its just that the more random an event, the less likely it is to happen again. If anything, keeping too many things the same violates cause- and-effect, while the more strongly divergent timelines (like the ones I usually make) keep more strongly to it. Everything is connected to everything else; you just have to look hard enough. > Geoff
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 13 04:01:51 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52250 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 12:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m40a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 12:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 12:01:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 12:01:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 12:01:38 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:01:37 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqs9b1+pvhs@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=fKED9I9FrLV1PdmPpSB_1YVZrPybS6D7P0UkQO3dAOqnG8XDtjBiOw X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones Firstly, what's the population of the world in the present in IB? Secondly, with the various changes made to the number of adherents to religions in IB, what would be the ranking of each (major) religion *there*. I'm thinking something like this - 1) Christianity 2) Hinduism 3) Non-religious/atheist et al 4) Islam 5) Buddhism 6) Chinese folk religion 7) Zoroastrianism 8) Sikhism 9) Judaism 10) Manichaeism 11) Bahá'í Faith 12) Jainism 13) Shinto 14) Xescuto 15) Lithuanian Paganism 16) An Graveth 17) Mandaeism 18) Druze Any comments?
From Montrei13@gmail.com Tue Feb 13 04:27:20 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91584 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 12:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 12:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.187) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 12:26:47 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id m19so246548nfc for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 04:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.41.18 with SMTP id t18mr665594nfj.1171369544959; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 04:25:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.208.6 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 04:25:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7b9d11410702130425l4568a494v6fe6ecb166c5865c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 04:25:44 -0800 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqs9b1+pvhs@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <eqs9b1+pvhs@eGroups.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.182.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=FPwCij4a250jzulPUBcYI4oRhY9bUHzX5umHeJ6j5aoYRRPd X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 2/13/07, Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Firstly, what's the population of the world in the present in IB? > Hard to really say. We'd have to figure that out from population figures established for countries we know anything about. The two areas I focus on are Montrei and Alta California. The area both cover are roughly analogous to here's California, Nevada, with parts of Utah and Arizona. However, the population in iB is far less than that of the area in our world: Alta California has 7,645,859 people, Los Angeles there never was able to secure the water resources to allow unchecked growth like it experiences here (here, most of Los Angeles' water comes from Northern California... one major bone of contention within the state among those who are into water rights). They have not found a way to tap into the wetness of the northern western part of the nation to bring water south. The highly populated areas of Alta California are in semi-arid or desert climates. Los Angeles has some imported water, but the population is only probably 4 million, with about 2 million in San Diego, and everyone else scattered in rural areas around the nation (most of AC is undeveloped, uninhabited or inhabited mostly by native tribes) Montrei has a much higher population, 11,309,445 people due to its abundance of water, and opportunity. Alta California is poorer and had been participating in a war with Tejas, and then with Deseret rebels. Montrei has kept to itself mostly, and has both the weatlth and standard of living to allow a bigger population. It's a strange little prosperous jewel in the region. So, both total to about 18,955,304 people more than half of what our California does. I expect IB to be far less populous than our world. > Secondly, with the various changes made to the number of adherents to > religions in IB, what would be the ranking of each (major) religion > *there*. > > I'm thinking something like this - > > 1) Christianity > 2) Hinduism > 3) Non-religious/atheist et al > 4) Islam > 5) Buddhism I'm not so sure Islam is higher than Buddhism, considering that the analogues to our Indonesia and Malaysia were never Islamicized (except the kingdom of Aceh), also that Zoroastrianism is the majority religion of Persia.
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 13 05:30:33 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28854 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 13:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 13:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.49) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 13:30:33 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 13:29:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 13:29:02 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:28:59 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqseer+7ith@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <7b9d11410702130425l4568a494v6fe6ecb166c5865c@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.49 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=fvfxXB2exZIkQBej4IJ4KBuK0_SMtB-ETSSMCX9m7k80wQUcdDVDQg X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@...> wrote: > > On 2/13/07, Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > > Firstly, what's the population of the world in the present in IB? > > > > Hard to really say. We'd have to figure that out from population > figures established for countries we know anything about. > > The two areas I focus on are Montrei and Alta California. The area > both cover are roughly analogous to here's California, Nevada, with > parts of Utah and Arizona. However, the population in iB is far less > than that of the area in our world: > > Alta California has 7,645,859 people, Los Angeles there never was able > to secure the water resources to allow unchecked growth like it > experiences here (here, most of Los Angeles' water comes from Northern > California... one major bone of contention within the state among > those who are into water rights). They have not found a way to tap > into the wetness of the northern western part of the nation to bring > water south. The highly populated areas of Alta California are in > semi-arid or desert climates. Los Angeles has some imported water, but > the population is only probably 4 million, with about 2 million in San > Diego, and everyone else scattered in rural areas around the nation > (most of AC is undeveloped, uninhabited or inhabited mostly by native > tribes) > > Montrei has a much higher population, 11,309,445 people due to its > abundance of water, and opportunity. Alta California is poorer and had > been participating in a war with Tejas, and then with Deseret rebels. > Montrei has kept to itself mostly, and has both the weatlth and > standard of living to allow a bigger population. It's a strange little > prosperous jewel in the region. > > So, both total to about 18,955,304 people more than half of what our > California does. I expect IB to be far less populous than our world. > So, perhaps around four and a half billion then? Anyway, I'm asking because the technology in IB is less advanced in general than *here*. > > > Secondly, with the various changes made to the number of adherents to > > religions in IB, what would be the ranking of each (major) religion > > *there*. > > > > I'm thinking something like this - > > > > 1) Christianity > > 2) Hinduism > > 3) Non-religious/atheist et al > > 4) Islam > > 5) Buddhism > > I'm not so sure Islam is higher than Buddhism, considering that the > analogues to our Indonesia and Malaysia were never Islamicized (except > the kingdom of Aceh), also that Zoroastrianism is the majority > religion of Persia. > But, (with *here's* population figures anyway) Islam's adherance is ~1,300,000,000, and Buddhism's is ~376,000,000. Therefor, I'd expect Islam to be down about 250,000,000 in Asia, leaving it with roughly a bilion adherence, and Buddhism to be up around 100,000,000 in Asia, leaving it with about five hundred million adherents. However, the increased Islamic population in East Africa would boost its adherents by around 20,000,000 or so. Buddhism's increased adherence in East Africa would probably be around 22,000,000. However, the Buddhist adherence in Mongolia would probably have decreased somewhat, with Manicheanism taking a deaper hold *there*, as well as, probably, in Uiguristan (also displacing Islam a bit). Therefore, Islam would still have around a billion adherence, and Buddhism, although increased in number over all, would still only have an adherence of around half that. Hinduism, however, would have taken much greater hold *there*, especially since it wasn't displaced as much in Southeast Asia. However, I may have to move Hindusim to the #3 slot, however.
From dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com Tue Feb 13 10:38:01 2007 Return-Path: <dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 20496 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 18:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 18:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.170) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 18:35:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n8.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 18:34:39 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 18:34:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 18:34:39 -0000 X-Sender: dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2008 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 09:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 09:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.23) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 09:53:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 09:52:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Feb 2007 09:52:28 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:52:27 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqs1or+t7nc@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 83.131.144.58 From: "dubrovcanin2" <dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com> Subject: Croatia proposal X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298631720; y=NSg8lCk8AvWIJlsy2vB9J3DyYde8lglIxbskcm49rLqNgCwKdx-N X-Yahoo-Profile: dubrovcanin2 X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 13 Feb 2007 18:34:36 -0000 I suggest following: Currently, Ustasha regime of Tomislav Pavelit' and Krunoslav Tomit' is oppressing not only Slovenia, but also normal peace-loving Croat people, by violent means. It's regime is non democratic, so there is underground movement for democratisation of Croatia called "National Renessaince Movement" (NRM) which is supported by majority of Croat people. Slovenes are joining the Movement led by Stipe Mesit' who promissed them autonomy whithin Croatia. Moderate Slovenes see this as an opportunityfor improving their current status of opressed people by the ustasha regime of Croatia. However, Slovene government -in-exile in Dalmatia is reluctant to support NRM because they want immediate recognition of an independent Slovenia. There is to see how will Dalmatia react, will they support NRM, to overthrow Ustasha regime in Croatia? NRM stands for: 1. overthrow violent Ustasha regime 2. establishment of democratic republic of Croatia and autonomous region of Slovenia 3. modernization of Croatian language (while ustasha regime uses archaic language) and recognition of Slovenian language as co-official in Slovenia region Is this a good proposal? I am interested in participating (I live in *there Croatia, although it's *here Dalmatia :-)
From carrajena@yahoo.com Tue Feb 13 11:17:00 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90337 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2007 19:15:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Feb 2007 19:15:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60322.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.130) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Feb 2007 19:15:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 91414 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Feb 2007 19:14:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Dl9fJpIVM1ngTCU3vJp22T9PtkEgYFThtKgqirB9fX9sALwOf14W8qwsdHNNlvKx4Jiu84yaNX2QBNiblI2_EXBftoM_sJa3bWVmxh9Z6sv9opAyUH8I0ZM6vvOy7TrPX1ZGggTJ.gMWel66n5bDHQf47tc- Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60322.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:14:46 PST Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:14:46 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070213015058.37224.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <854823.90885.qm@web60322.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.130 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y=yHUf3AhB6QeoLYtEOS3Cu39bd14GRheAGMtsxThAyxzrxmnO X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Once again, to each his own! I think one thing > that is in operation here is a difference > regarding the "proper" scope of the butterfly > effect. Perhaps a subtle v. potent butterfly > effect? This is a very subjective thing to be > sure! > > Padraic Like in C-a. I started with a very slight change in the religious environment of North Africa in the 300s added a second minor change to Egypt post-Nicene, and by 1200 it looks like I have a solidly non-Muslim North Africa, and I've lost anything resembling France as we know it. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From theiling@absint.com Tue Feb 13 17:52:35 2007 Return-Path: <theiling@absint.com> X-Sender: theiling@absint.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 66908 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 01:47:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 01:47:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.absint.com) (212.82.36.133) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 01:47:37 -0000 Received: from gandalf.absint-internal (theiling@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.absint.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/2006121804mw) with ESMTP id l1E1gEoP029849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:42:14 +0100 Received: (from theiling@localhost) by gandalf.absint-internal (8.13.4/8.13.4/2006052901mw) id l1E1gDHP029843; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:42:13 +0100 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com References: <854823.90885.qm@web60322.mail.yahoo.com> Date: 14 Feb 2007 02:42:13 +0100 In-Reply-To: <854823.90885.qm@web60322.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <of8wt2la51m.fsf@gandalf.absint-internal> Lines: 29 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: 212.82.36.133 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Henrik Theiling <theiling@absint.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=77325882 Hi! Adam Walker writes: > --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Once again, to each his own! I think one thing > > that is in operation here is a difference > > regarding the "proper" scope of the butterfly > > effect. Perhaps a subtle v. potent butterfly > > effect? This is a very subjective thing to be > > sure! > > > > Padraic > > Like in C-a. I started with a very slight change in > the religious environment of North Africa in the 300s > added a second minor change to Egypt post-Nicene, and > by 1200 it looks like I have a solidly non-Muslim > North Africa, and I've lost anything resembling France > as we know it. > > Adam And in my conhistory, which a friend of mine constructed to help me find a setting for Þrjótrunn, a slightly earlier attack on Rome by the Cimbri and Teutoni leads to the extinction of English. And France being called 'Lombardie', but that's really a detail. **Henrik
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Feb 13 19:14:39 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8423 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 03:14:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 03:14:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52021.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.253) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 03:14:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 13449 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2007 03:13:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20070214031357.13447.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: PBAz4XYVM1mycbJJltPLAC9NJ8WHuwv5iWCPQjrNhhAK8IAx6FGb7OIQxz_NFsMGIL6FaXKgRAYOntFU7Te52KzgcMp5W7X0XAw9GrWiwYPLPIacWLxFsEAJwYrl4twdkf5ytDTbcvnixrowGm1irkkxc_BNYAPXFAeEtvNK8IdBfdjEbcFk Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52021.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:13:57 PST Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:13:57 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <779948.98875.qm@web26710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.253 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Survival of American megafauna? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=rVjUDZ1u5te_6b_nLlutMmUrnBixHbnZDqhrOUF0pPoLh1d6 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Changes > don't happen in a vacuum, and randomising > everything > after the POD seems too much like violating > cause and effect to me. This principle has its place, too -- though I'm not sure it should be called anything but a subcreation cut out of whole cloth. In other words, if free reign / total randomisation is allowed to happen after a certain point in an alternate reality that is based on primary world history (for example if we snuff Julius Caesar at birth and then allow "total randomisation" of the actions of everyone in the world thereafter), then we really end up with a whole new alternate reality, not really one based on *here*'s model. Padraic > Geoff Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Feb 13 19:16:54 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23633 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 03:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 03:16:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52023.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.57) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 03:16:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 37828 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2007 03:16:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20070214031642.37826.qmail@web52023.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 3bkwaasVM1mmaFU9bvWoWsWuED74.bq4kx3AXo889ShXtqBeiJIbav15ObC_UgZxAOnMKdWh0R9GoPA8vcoeN57vioph98xRZ2TpP.6JaS0Qfv1biftdBkqivJYSZqO.XQWtH9y1tAVfLHatmKzmzgiP_.hiJK5kihACH1.MZxuPuG_BVlQe Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52023.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:16:42 PST Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:16:42 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqs9b1+pvhs@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.57 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=J9zBnIXP8rYiCkKmyCqzqWibuYgEeg5dTjchpgmqOBEoZPMh X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Firstly, what's the population of the world in > the present in IB? Certainly fewer than *here* and *now*. Probably not by much less. 4.5B was bandied about, and that might be about right. > Secondly, with the various changes made to the > number of adherents to > religions in IB, what would be the ranking of > each (major) religion > *there*. > > I'm thinking something like this - > > 1) Christianity > 2) Hinduism > 3) Non-religious/atheist et al I'm not sure why this one is so high. Padraic > 4) Islam > 5) Buddhism > 6) Chinese folk religion > 7) Zoroastrianism > 8) Sikhism > 9) Judaism > 10) Manichaeism > 11) Bahá'í Faith > 12) Jainism > 13) Shinto > 14) Xescuto > 15) Lithuanian Paganism > 16) An Graveth > 17) Mandaeism > 18) Druze > > Any comments? > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Feb 13 19:24:04 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89897 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 03:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 03:22:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52025.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.26) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 03:22:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 75170 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2007 03:21:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20070214032109.75168.qmail@web52025.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ikoJvJUVM1ljJGps7CzrPyharRs8HfvYoXaNdccEeuUHW4cULDAxuaS17j6EdxNFQ6GrlUCWyxC00h6Zux3q0auL.6vCVdpxo2SYiNkk5oS8ataSy3.U12pPI48Wj_vcx80CSriH16TrYURTGfVdXx4LuHgTmTejFb1tdW1IBjkFbi8tvJXB Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52025.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:21:09 PST Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:21:09 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqseer+7ith@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=PuesDlNqyHq6E1OhNEqNfhYAOCAMn1D8yWikfJowyTQAWzGg X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Barry > Garcia" <Montrei13@...> > wrote: > > > > On 2/13/07, Llywelyn Jones > <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > > > > Firstly, what's the population of the world > in the present in IB? > > > > > > > Hard to really say. We'd have to figure that > out from population > > figures established for countries we know > anything about. > > > > The two areas I focus on are Montrei and Alta > California. The area > > both cover are roughly analogous to here's > California, Nevada, with > > parts of Utah and Arizona. However, the > population in iB is far less > > than that of the area in our world: > > > > Alta California has 7,645,859 people, Los > Angeles there never was > able > > to secure the water resources to allow > unchecked growth like it > > experiences here (here, most of Los Angeles' > water comes from > Northern > > California... one major bone of contention > within the state among > > those who are into water rights). They have > not found a way to tap > > into the wetness of the northern western part > of the nation to bring > > water south. The highly populated areas of > Alta California are in > > semi-arid or desert climates. Los Angeles has > some imported water, > but > > the population is only probably 4 million, > with about 2 million in > San > > Diego, and everyone else scattered in rural > areas around the nation > > (most of AC is undeveloped, uninhabited or > inhabited mostly by > native > > tribes) > > > > Montrei has a much higher population, > 11,309,445 people due to its > > abundance of water, and opportunity. Alta > California is poorer and > had > > been participating in a war with Tejas, and > then with Deseret > rebels. > > Montrei has kept to itself mostly, and has > both the weatlth and > > standard of living to allow a bigger > population. It's a strange > little > > prosperous jewel in the region. > > > > So, both total to about 18,955,304 people > more than half of what our > > California does. I expect IB to be far less > populous than our world. > > > > So, perhaps around four and a half billion > then? Anyway, I'm asking > because the technology in IB is less advanced > in general than *here*. This is a perennial and common misconception. I'd be curious to know where you got the idea from? If anything, IB's technology is "differently advanced" rather than "less advanced". Is it because people ride around in trains and zeppelins? Or because they haven't really gotten into space yet? I'm curious, because you're not the first commentator to say that IB's technological level is lower than *here*. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 14 00:31:43 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7816 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 08:31:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 08:31:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.23) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 08:31:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 08:31:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 08:31:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:31:17 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <equhcl+kv4o@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070214032109.75168.qmail@web52025.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=vdx3MgufwH_i_ZTCpqGrL2wyKFPojnuW61uTAEIeUsobQfMyA0kjNg X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> > wrote: > > > So, perhaps around four and a half billion > > then? Anyway, I'm asking > > because the technology in IB is less advanced > > in general than *here*. > > This is a perennial and common misconception. I'd > be curious to know where you got the idea from? > If anything, IB's technology is "differently > advanced" rather than "less advanced". > > Is it because people ride around in trains and > zeppelins? Or because they haven't really gotten > into space yet? I'm curious, because you're not > the first commentator to say that IB's > technological level is lower than *here*. > > Padraic > Its mentioned somewhere in the website that the average technology level of IB is comparable to that of 1980's *here*. I'd call that less advanced. Besides, I said "less advanced in general". Its as (if not more) advanced in somethings, but less advanced in others. Actually, starting a space-program with 1980's technology would be much better than starting one with 1950's-60's technology.
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 14 00:34:21 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 32205 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 08:34:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 08:34:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.184) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 08:34:21 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 08:34:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 08:34:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 08:34:16 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:34:15 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <equhi7+s6c5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070214031642.37826.qmail@web52023.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.184 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=AhSuyBkx_-qPFJGMvMJTc17QXf97g1oHkTKpEmIZA0IW-0vkJp9nNA X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> > wrote: > > > Firstly, what's the population of the world in > > the present in IB? > > Certainly fewer than *here* and *now*. Probably > not by much less. 4.5B was bandied about, and > that might be about right. > > > Secondly, with the various changes made to the > > number of adherents to > > religions in IB, what would be the ranking of > > each (major) religion > > *there*. > > > > I'm thinking something like this - > > > > 1) Christianity > > 2) Hinduism > > 3) Non-religious/atheist et al > > I'm not sure why this one is so high. > Just going by numbers for *here*. Perhaps non-religious might occupy the #6 slot *there*. But, then again, *here*, atheism is often equated with communism by some of those who are rather overtly religious (and perhaps some who aren't so religious). *There* on the other hand, overt-religiousness would probably be equated with SNORism by many people. > Padraic > > > 4) Islam > > 5) Buddhism > > 6) Chinese folk religion > > 7) Zoroastrianism > > 8) Sikhism > > 9) Judaism > > 10) Manichaeism > > 11) Bahá'í Faith > > 12) Jainism > > 13) Shinto > > 14) Xescuto > > 15) Lithuanian Paganism > > 16) An Graveth > > 17) Mandaeism > > 18) Druze > > > > Any comments? > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . >
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 14 00:38:22 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68905 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 08:38:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 08:38:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.10) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 08:38:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 08:37:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 08:37:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:37:22 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <equho2+6f3c@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eqs1or+t7nc@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.10 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Croatia proposal X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=nwCzpUJLwdVz1T2x-OL__TcEGdjW7rcylDF6XaxqBveRLpI5_D4gbw X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "dubrovcanin2" <dubrovcanin2@...> wrote: > > I suggest following: > > Currently, Ustasha regime of Tomislav Pavelit' and Krunoslav Tomit' > is oppressing not only Slovenia, but also normal peace-loving Croat > people, by violent means. It's regime is non democratic, so there is > underground movement for democratisation of Croatia called "National > Renessaince Movement" (NRM) which is supported by majority of Croat > people. Slovenes are joining the Movement led by Stipe Mesit' who > promissed them autonomy whithin Croatia. Moderate Slovenes see this as > an opportunityfor improving their current status of opressed people by > the ustasha regime of Croatia. > However, Slovene government -in-exile in Dalmatia is reluctant to > support NRM because they want immediate recognition of an independent > Slovenia. > > There is to see how will Dalmatia react, will they support NRM, to > overthrow Ustasha regime in Croatia? > > NRM stands for: > > 1. overthrow violent Ustasha regime > 2. establishment of democratic republic of Croatia and autonomous > region of Slovenia > 3. modernization of Croatian language (while ustasha regime uses > archaic language) and recognition of Slovenian language as co- official > in Slovenia region > > Is this a good proposal? > I am interested in participating (I live in *there Croatia, although > it's *here Dalmatia :-) > Sounds interesting. I have no objections, but then I'm no expert on the Balkands in IB.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Feb 14 05:25:17 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 63923 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 13:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 13:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52020.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.252) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 13:25:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 84772 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2007 13:25:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20070214132510.84770.qmail@web52020.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Fmtm8PUVM1lUmDZxFwkaSTctiX11rVAAWu05dhL0PKHVF4uZGGUopL9uS0.4AK6VU6keOv741z1I3pFusO6T9M6lvf6mPxoPyt5iAdYVAf75CpWRVHykZTgdoRXtA0caqkDDpViGZt2yGjRD22zX_7hDxvZ8WAse8WW2SnOFJyEoMlfxlbY- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52020.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:25:09 PST Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:25:09 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <equhcl+kv4o@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=cjxOgl3eZgXHNAh0lj4scRd_2Qso5KaLLuPQQJuXDnMqZxt7 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> > > wrote: > > > > > So, perhaps around four and a half billion > > > then? Anyway, I'm asking > > > because the technology in IB is less > advanced > > > in general than *here*. > > > > This is a perennial and common misconception. > I'd > > be curious to know where you got the idea > from? > > If anything, IB's technology is "differently > > advanced" rather than "less advanced". > > > > Is it because people ride around in trains > and > > zeppelins? Or because they haven't really > gotten > > into space yet? I'm curious, because you're > not > > the first commentator to say that IB's > > technological level is lower than *here*. > > > > Padraic > > > Its mentioned somewhere in the website that the > average technology > level of IB is comparable to that of 1980's > *here*. I'd call that less advanced. > > Besides, I said "less advanced in general". Its > as (if not more) > advanced in somethings, but less advanced in > others. And sometimes they just don't have the same drives we've had *here* (no space race or cold war, for example), so things come about differently. > Actually, starting a space-program with 1980's > technology would be > much better than starting one with 1950's-60's > technology. Well, there is that. I think the 80s reference is by now out of date, but was probably intended to give _some_ kind of indication of where they are. If you can find it, we can look into it and see about its merits. Padraic > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Feb 14 05:31:33 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84832 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 13:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 13:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52028.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.29) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 13:31:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 65692 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Feb 2007 13:30:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20070214133058.65690.qmail@web52028.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: _IMq3QoVM1m55NPyaus7jCiKXjHG_lKBYv.7hti3.WIx6Y4Vrggbok8rruyCBoVW_trRo4SSlCa.qwyrOqd4fFG8bnoPD9A6br9t81WR8PCifGFWzRheE9AlmF12RGyjHSjWvbdMIT8AC.ZE6TKtL4e9ojHyOv.QZgwtMmkncuUzkSDunEW0 Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52028.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:30:58 PST Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 05:30:58 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <equhi7+s6c5@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.29 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=iqxA7qVl-HxRM3w2Q-auWpd73551iWntm3ypR72qwYQekYBj X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> > > wrote: > > > > > Firstly, what's the population of the world > in > > > the present in IB? > > > > Certainly fewer than *here* and *now*. > Probably > > not by much less. 4.5B was bandied about, and > > that might be about right. > > > > > Secondly, with the various changes made to > the > > > number of adherents to > > > religions in IB, what would be the ranking > of > > > each (major) religion > > > *there*. > > > > > > I'm thinking something like this - > > > > > > 1) Christianity > > > 2) Hinduism > > > 3) Non-religious/atheist et al > > > > I'm not sure why this one is so high. > > > > Just going by numbers for *here*. Perhaps > non-religious might occupy > the #6 slot *there*. > > But, then again, *here*, atheism is often > equated with communism by > some of those who are rather overtly religious > (and perhaps some who > aren't so religious). I'm sure Atheism exists on the faith continuum of *there* as it does *here* -- but since it's an "anti-religion", it probably should be in the list of population by religion. "Non-religious" is a bit nebulous, as that could mean people who are "technically" of some religion (in name only, but not practicing), people who practice non-religious spirituality and Atheists and Agnostics who don't practice any religion (or who practice an anti-religion). > *There* on the other > hand, overt-religiousness > would probably be equated with SNORism by many > people. Could be, especially in Eastern Europe. SNORism was a radical Slavicism that had dragged the Orthodox into its political doctrines and aims. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 14 06:23:57 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33002 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 14:23:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 14:23:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 14:23:56 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 14:23:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 14:23:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 14:23:31 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 14:23:31 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqv613+ne19@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070214132510.84770.qmail@web52020.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.120 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=Mpeuux4SNto8JAPo_shg0gpihAPGkHnvt7jV5rKackRql-BhVjNcRQ X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> > wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > Brown <elemtilas@> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > So, perhaps around four and a half billion > > > > then? Anyway, I'm asking > > > > because the technology in IB is less > > advanced > > > > in general than *here*. > > > > > > This is a perennial and common misconception. > > I'd > > > be curious to know where you got the idea > > from? > > > If anything, IB's technology is "differently > > > advanced" rather than "less advanced". > > > > > > Is it because people ride around in trains > > and > > > zeppelins? Or because they haven't really > > gotten > > > into space yet? I'm curious, because you're > > not > > > the first commentator to say that IB's > > > technological level is lower than *here*. > > > > > > Padraic > > > > > Its mentioned somewhere in the website that the > > average technology > > level of IB is comparable to that of 1980's > > *here*. I'd call that less advanced. > > > > Besides, I said "less advanced in general". Its > > as (if not more) > > advanced in somethings, but less advanced in > > others. > > And sometimes they just don't have the same > drives we've had *here* (no space race or cold > war, for example), so things come about > differently. > > > Actually, starting a space-program with 1980's > > technology would be > > much better than starting one with 1950's-60's > > technology. > > Well, there is that. I think the 80s reference is > by now out of date, but was probably intended to > give _some_ kind of indication of where they are. > If you can find it, we can look into it and see > about its merits. > Here it it - http://ib.frath.net/w/Computers And the quote - "While IB's technological level is somewhere equivalent to 15 years ago (1980s), it is catching up. It is expected that IB and *here* will reach parity in another 20 years." I knew I'd seen it in there somewhere. > Padraic > >
From dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com Wed Feb 14 07:36:31 2007 Return-Path: <dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 92711 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 15:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 15:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.123) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 15:36:25 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 15:36:24 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 15:36:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 15:36:24 -0000 X-Sender: dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16890 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 12:58:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 12:58:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.59) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 12:58:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 12:58:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 12:58:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:58:29 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqv11l+l5ac@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.59 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 89.172.83.22 From: "dubrovcanin2" <dubrovcanin2@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Croatia proposal X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=298631720; y=LWAoUsn-kiydKtyAhkVqpE9J82Kstspco7qfOZBQkY1BypWirPBd X-Yahoo-Profile: dubrovcanin2 X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 14 Feb 2007 15:36:23 -0000 I studied this...it'd be cool
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Wed Feb 14 07:38:47 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 61556 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2007 15:38:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Feb 2007 15:38:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2007 15:38:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 15:37:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Feb 2007 15:37:44 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:37:43 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eqvac7+2v11@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <equho2+6f3c@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.23 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Croatia proposal X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; yšqwotDWE4tzXM5krZUmVCKjSeuK_kWu3oo5s9EBsimUHr3C X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "dubrovcanin2" <dubrovcanin2@> > wrote: > > > > I suggest following: > > > > Currently, Ustasha regime of Tomislav Pavelit' and Krunoslav > Tomit' > > is oppressing not only Slovenia, but also normal peace-loving Croat > > people, by violent means. It's regime is non democratic, so there is > > underground movement for democratisation of Croatia called "National > > Renessaince Movement" (NRM) which is supported by majority of Croat > > people. Slovenes are joining the Movement led by Stipe Mesit' who > > promissed them autonomy whithin Croatia. Moderate Slovenes see this > as > > an opportunityfor improving their current status of opressed people > by > > the ustasha regime of Croatia. > > However, Slovene government -in-exile in Dalmatia is reluctant to > > support NRM because they want immediate recognition of an > independent > > Slovenia. > > > > There is to see how will Dalmatia react, will they support NRM, to > > overthrow Ustasha regime in Croatia? > > > > NRM stands for: > > > > 1. overthrow violent Ustasha regime > > 2. establishment of democratic republic of Croatia and autonomous > > region of Slovenia > > 3. modernization of Croatian language (while ustasha regime uses > > archaic language) and recognition of Slovenian language as co- > official > > in Slovenia region > > > > Is this a good proposal? > > I am interested in participating (I live in *there Croatia, although > > it's *here Dalmatia :-) > > > > Sounds interesting. I have no objections, but then I'm no expert on > the Balkands in IB. > Yes, this is really Ferko's region of influence...anyone know how to raise him? Is he still in Fujian?
From zahir@brainlink.com Fri Feb 16 12:04:19 2007 Return-Path: <zahir@brainlink.com> X-Sender: zahir@brainlink.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21299 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2007 20:04:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2007 20:04:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.214) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2007 20:04:16 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2007 20:02:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2007 20:02:03 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 20:02:02 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <er52jq+ghv0@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.214 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 68.124.173.190 From: "David" <zahir@brainlink.com> Subject: IB: New Coalition Government in NAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=48429920; y=OibPSBNuhISYVYbdFIyF-RoCFgvx3WjrQS7Bbde7L25Neg X-Yahoo-Profile: zahir13 (I'm having trouble with my internet connection, so this is my first chance to post this since I wrote it. Sorry.) WHIG/LOYALIST COALITION TAKES OFFICE National News Corporation (Philadelphia) Weeks of negotiation ended with a new coalition in Parliament this week. Although many predicted the wounded Progressive Conservatives would swallow their pride and form an administration with Albert Gore¡¯s Whigs, new leader Stephen Harper (Les Plaines) ultimately refused to back down from demands unacceptable to the NeoLeft. As a result, the Oblong Office announced the three leaders of the new Covenant Loyalist Party would be joining Gore¡¯s cabinet. Senators Howard Provo (Jacobia) and Diane Rodham (Illinoise) will be Ministers of Justice and Health respectively, while Deputy Eugene Levi (Ontario) has accepted the post Secretary of State for Internal Affairs. Deputy Ion Edwards (Carolina) has shifted over to Foreign Affairs, replacing Senator Josette Biden (Kent). This last is seen as an explicit sign that Gore intends for Edwards to succeed him in 2010 to the General Moderator-ship rather than Biden, who has openly said she intends to seek that office. On the other hand, Rodham¡¯s take-over of Health is a fairly clear indication that Gore¡¯s (and Edwards¡¯) vaunted UNICOV program is to be abandoned in favor of something akin to the CL¡¯s National Health Service proposal. The new administration now has a solid majority in both Houses of Parliament. Harper, the new Opposition Leader, is seen to have cemented his position in the Progressive Conservatives following the blows of the Watergap Scandal, the 2006 General Election results and the sudden death of Senator O¡¯Kinneide (Massachusetts Bay) by holding fast to the party faithful in terms of ideology. To many PCs, sharing power with Gore and his NeoLeft allies is anathema. He has promised a rebirth of the party and its ideals. Apart from party Leader, he is also the Opposition Whip of the Senate. Deputy Franklin Dibb (Ouisconsin) has been elected Opposition Whip in the House. Some commentators question Edwards¡¯ qualifications as Foreign Secretary, given his limited experience in the area and even his relatively few trips abroad. On the other hand, Edwards does speak Spanish and has visited Florida as well as Jamaica. This might herald a shifting emphasis in Foreign Affairs from Biden, who not only has traveled to Louisianne over fifty times but speaks fluent French. Three League-wide editorials have also noted that Biden, unlike Edwards, is a member of the American Leadership Conference. The ALS has become a target of conspiracy theories regarding the double assassination of First President Jean Francois Young and Japanese Mikado XXXX last year. No such reservations have been expressed over Provo, Rodham or Levi, who are generally acknowledged as qualified for their respective posts. Provo, while not an attorney himself, has a long history of working closely with legal experts as well as law enforcement officials when Lord Governor of Jacobia. Rodham is an acknowledged expert on Heath Care and social services, even having served as deputy Chair of the Senate Committee on Medical Affairs. Levi, the first person of Jewish extraction to hold this post, has worked closely with Native Tribal Leaders his entire career both in Ontario and Philadelphia. He is a close personal friend of the Cherokee Ouda and has traveled extensively in the Unincorporated Territories. The new cabinet is the latest in a series of political shake-ups that have rocked the North American League over the past two years, and to some extent as far back as the 2000 election, the most disputed such since 1876. At that time the Progressive Conservatives deadlocked and ultimately offered no official candidate for Octagon House. Despite this, the vote in many ridings proved extremely close and prompted interventions by the Courts. Gore¡¯s tenure, widely expected to be relatively stable following the rancor and animosity of the Clinton years, has proven at least as tumultuous.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Fri Feb 16 13:15:18 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 36576 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2007 21:15:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Feb 2007 21:15:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Feb 2007 21:15:15 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2007 21:14:56 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2007 21:14:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Feb 2007 21:14:56 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 21:14:56 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <er56sg+ch65@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.126 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosmic News: Feb. 11-13 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=52DTpCIdBAljrBxxcX_cslsiLnGsfAKKxrWXalrjERW5UsK5-w X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 11 (FIU-Burma) From "The Wonderful and Glorious History of the Life of Our Queen", Arakan Press: The Queen of Burma was born in the Andaman Islands, the daughter of a humble tribesman. Her beauty was known throughout the islands, and soon even the governor had heard of the beautiful maiden. The governor summoned the girl to his palace. When he saw her, he desired her and made her his mistress. Many of his retinue abandoned their Andamanese mistresses when they returned the court of the King, but the governor took his mistress with him. To Be Continued … Week 7 (Feb. 12-18) 12 (Earth-Tasmanian Devil) Pranvera whirled around and bared her razor-sharp teeth at the intruder. He was a male humanoid with a flat snout and square teeth. A woman was grasping his left arm, a woman who had the head of a dog and and a curious flat yet uneven chest. "I am the Healer," he said, "And this is my Assistant, Canida." Pranvera moved forward, hissing. Luljeta and Blerta followed her. "What do you want, foreigner?" "I am the Healer. I have come to help you with your plague." At that pronouncement, all three natives of this world laughed cacocaphonously in derision. "You know nothing of our world, stanger," Pranvera replied. "We are a violent people. We regarded hospices as the refuges of children and weaklings. Even this plague of facial cancer failed to convince most of us." "Surely you would prefer healing to extinction," queried the Healer. "Come with me to the maternity ward. I think you will understand then." 13 (Detective World) Time: late 1930's Place: Arizona "Since we have come to differing conclusions independently," deliberated Hank Faraday, "we should look at the evidence together. Maybe then we will agree." "That's not a bad idea," remarked Manley Royal. "My brother and I know the site of the crime well. We used to ride out there with our sister Alice Beth." "Let's go then," articulated Joel Faraday. "But what about the young lady?" "She must be tired from her trip across the country," said Medford Royal. "She should rest here a while." "Although I appreciate your concern for my welfare, gentlemen," responded Dana Wren, "I shall do no such thing. I have come this distance to solve a mystery and that is precisely what I intend to do."
From plikma@hotmail.com Sat Feb 17 13:54:30 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96272 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2007 21:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Feb 2007 21:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.205) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Feb 2007 21:54:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2007 21:54:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Feb 2007 21:54:22 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 21:54:21 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <er7tid+102e0@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.205 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: IB: Questions concerning Oregon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=2B0hF2APkQdrdxFtOUDcSrhnSyP2BnUZ4iSqWMEqEgTYEw X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas 1) Would it be correct to say that Oregon is everything from 42º to 52º 40' and west of the continental divide? 2) When did Oregon become independant? 3) Did Lewis and Clark happen *there*? (Presumably the French would have used that route). 4) When did Oregon become Ecotopic? 1950s? 5) Is Oregon the first Ecotopic naion in the world?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Feb 17 16:27:39 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14196 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2007 00:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2007 00:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52021.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.253) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2007 00:27:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 65041 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Feb 2007 00:26:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20070218002603.65039.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: ikeLbs0VM1mMTxbjsKL.KeLAt1LrgVDNDlT.MSuMxIN50rC8OPTfWstVLdwmwTLs52vnC5XfYRXCRAs26jp8ZWQLc3_WH9_KLXcEtsJw2aFDlJvftRLtXzyhJAzPE8SyWUcBL8jIhkV.8gZuQ.hLf7qOo867O5gG.2No2acUapwG0btblj2B Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52021.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:26:03 PST Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:26:03 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <er7tid+102e0@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.253 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Questions concerning Oregon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=WCSM5AKekF7AqzKSmoNQEMuaYK4E-phaof_JpUi8hAop8aph X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > 1) Would it be correct to say that Oregon is > everything from 42º to > 52º 40' and west of the continental divide? If that's what's on the map! Roughly WA, OR and BC. > 2) When did Oregon become independant? Independent of what? It was only vaguely British on account of the land being owned by the British North American Co. (I think). When the HBCo took over, they don't seem to have taken over what would become Oregon. > 3) Did Lewis and Clark happen *there*? > (Presumably the French would > have used that route). No Lewish and Clark expedition, on account of there being no Thomas Jefferson, President of the US, to send them on the expedition. > 4) When did Oregon become Ecotopic? 1950s? > > 5) Is Oregon the first Ecotopic naion in the > world? I don't know. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Feb 17 21:12:46 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33343 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2007 05:12:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2007 05:12:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52017.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.249) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2007 05:12:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 54223 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Feb 2007 05:12:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20070218051238.54221.qmail@web52017.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: Wrfu_00VM1khQkujfIZ1.D9boOuuei1YfJIIyVT.9XPSBUukS2FyBiJwxIrWOoM0Tj2v8lm_LD7_6lBpy5drs8mHBYKCcpceD.UcSN4xkZydI2hF_SKvgrvKJQ7rrHvuCZ55JtKxmuUdF_Y6c2zEwgUiE797OkroyoSITXV1uiOKjdDdwrMj Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52017.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 17 Feb 2007 21:12:38 PST Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 21:12:38 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070218002603.65039.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Questions concerning Oregon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=wkNJ1q1jxtczhQBLNQRTLi_RrTMQoBEp64tshpGOxrvBJK6j X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > > 3) Did Lewis and Clark happen *there*? > > (Presumably the French would > > have used that route). > > No Lewish and Clark expedition, on account of > there being no Thomas Jefferson, President of > the US, to send them on the expedition. Anyway, it strikes me there's plenty of NW Territories (of the NAL) for them to traipse through! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Sun Feb 18 03:22:53 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25505 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2007 11:22:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2007 11:22:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.183) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2007 11:22:47 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2007 11:22:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2007 11:22:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2007 11:22:38 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:22:37 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <er9ctt+mj09@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eqhkvu+408t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.249.9 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: De-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=grNenX2zNIR7YIIDHA695a0R8JXoeJYxLTvTNxzEr7Kp6Illn92E X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno As I see you didn't have objections referred about making of these four proposals de-proposed articles, and after making few changes sugested, I going to remove the proposal tag of these articles. Pedro Moderno --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> wrote: > > Hi everybody! > > What do you all think about de-proposing the following articles? > > Abdul Karim Qassim > http://ib.frath.net/w/Abdul_Karim_Qassim > > Gamal Abdel Nasser > http://ib.frath.net/w/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser > > Saddaam Hussayn > http://ib.frath.net/w/Saddaam_Hussayn > > Shukri al-Kuwatli > http://ib.frath.net/w/Shukri_al-Kuwatli > > I will be waiting for your opinions. > > Pedro Moderno >
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Sun Feb 18 07:24:51 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37456 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2007 15:23:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2007 15:23:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2007 15:23:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 57538 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Feb 2007 15:22:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Qf3GL0cVM1mIPtUhgssoOIbuTg68eQF9l2TYJNy_ApFPGvSUKU.ER23B1Rr9Ze9b4GeKGlqMCoI2NGLGV2jBVICDPkNSqzCrku3zyW0SHzD9KC0bch5YnT8d3N99y3lHRlMQFdgAGjzqbzmjNz.TU83pfUQ- Received: from [68.88.137.92] by web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 15:22:40 GMT Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 15:22:40 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <302009.54672.qm@web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: dawn of civilisation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=lHZFDTl8g5ZobscF5-k6XjIsLsTWN5xMgH4vuYA1KXVncoLROQUJpA X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood Going on from the "American megafauna" threads, does anyone know of any specific reasons _why_ the earliest river valley civilisations were in those particular rivers? AFAIK, the earliest centres of civilisation in the Old World were the Nile valley, Mesopotamia, the Indus valley and the Yellow River. Is it just random chance that there were no equivalent centres of civilisation in other great rivers- the Ganges, the Congo, the Mekong, the Yangtze, or others? Or were there such civilisations, but for some reason they never became powerful or well-known? What about non-hydraulic civilisations of similar antiquity? I know of the Mycenaeans and the Minoan culture, but are there others in other parts of the world? If we allow a "butterfly effect" as intense as Llywelyn would like in our American non-extinction timeline, wouldn't civilisation probably happen elsewhere and in a different manner than *here? Unless there are specific reasons why the river valley civilisations that we know about came to prominence - such as resources? Geoff ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From jeffwilson63@frii.com Sun Feb 18 07:49:53 2007 Return-Path: <jeffwilson63@frii.com> X-Sender: jeffwilson63@frii.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91414 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2007 15:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2007 15:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.frii.com) (216.17.128.162) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2007 15:49:53 -0000 Received: from [4.225.215.163] (dialup-4.225.215.163.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.225.215.163]) by mail.frii.com (FRII) with ESMTP id 97416A4D36 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 18 Feb 2007 08:49:29 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <45D87587.4070501@frii.com> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 08:49:27 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com References: <302009.54672.qm@web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <302009.54672.qm@web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 216.17.128.162 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Jefferson Wilson <jeffwilson63@frii.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] dawn of civilisation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=193537240; y=hlAi3giLrRu2gj7yeSZjla1E8q77aXo4BmaaIvX34oZzZN0hPbz3cw X-Yahoo-Profile: jeff_wilson63 Geoff Horswood wrote: > AFAIK, the earliest centres of civilisation in the Old > World were the Nile valley, Mesopotamia, the Indus > valley and the Yellow River. Is it just random chance > that there were no equivalent centres of civilisation > in other great rivers- the Ganges, the Congo, the > Mekong, the Yangtze, or others? > Or were there such civilisations, but for some reason > they never became powerful or well-known? Don't know about the others, but I think the main problem with the Congo (which shared by the Amazon) is that it passes through jungle. Creating a substantial government in jungle is a catch-22 situation. You need a substantial government to create the roads to permit the communication and transportation needed to develop a substantial government to . . . Prior to the European expansion, both the Congo and the Amazon held significant populations, but they organized around villages or clans. -- Jefferson http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/rpg/
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Sun Feb 18 09:53:36 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2302 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2007 17:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2007 17:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2007 17:53:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2007 17:53:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2007 17:53:29 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:53:28 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <era3qo+96c5@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 89.180.26.16 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: IB Proposal: The Gulf Leopards X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=GcNP1fWCMRVzY1cZPgnsbICeERuwBhz8HqHNRcDKe39j7rZSwSJK X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno Hi everybody. Finally my first 2007 proposal draft. For better understanding of this proposal draft all characters referred altready have articles on IBwiki. As usual I expect your suggestions, corrections and opinions in general. And it's something like this: The Gulf Leopards The term Gulf Leopards refers to the economies of seven small arab oil producing states located at the Arabian Gulf. These states were able to achieve fully economical and social development thanks, firstly, to oil industry and later by the diversifying of their economies. These territories are the emirates of Bahrain, Qatar, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Sharjah and Oman, in the Thousand Emirates, plus Kuwayt. The first oil generation In the aftermath of the First World War the Ottoman Empire withdrew from Arabian Peninsula after its defeat. Local lords were able then to rule their territories, often with FK or France support. So were often occupied in warfare between each other. With the discovery of oil in Iraaq (1927) and Saudi Arabia (1939) some local royal families, especially the Hashemite and the Saudi, became extremely wealthy. But to common people no changes happened in their lives as they stayed as miserable and oppressed as before. Oil business was fully in the hands of the ruling elite who was much more interested in ruling their countries as if these were private property. These warring monarchs, born during the last years of the 19th century and who got rich thanks to oil, are usually referred as the first oil generation. The most notable were King Faisal I (of Hijaaz and Iraaq) and King Abdul Aziz (of Saudi Arabia). The second oil generation Some of their sons, born mostly between 1900 and 1920, were sent to study or to have diplomatic careers abroad. This permitted them to discover new perspectives, and returned with a changed mentality. Instead of being just warrior kings as their fathers they became politicians inspired in foreign ideologies. They started large public works and reforming projects which they financed with oil benefits. Although was then when common people finally got some benefit from oil the main motivation of these new rulers was definitely the self keeping in power. As result all these leaders were dictators which maintained order with iron fist. The first notable example of the second oil generation was King Ghazi I of Hijaaz and Iraaq, who briefly instituted SNORism in Iraaq. But the truly most important examples were King Faisal I al- Saud (from Saudi Arabia) and General Abdul Karim Qassim (from Iraaq, this one without any ties to any royal family). Historical lessons Between the 1950's and the 1970's several historic events occurred in the Middle East area. These events would cause important consequences so as would give important lessons to the following oil generation. These events were: The Suez Crisis In 1956 Egypt defeated two of the most powerful military powers in the world, France and the FK, in a short war which was called the Suez Crisis. At that time oil prices reached historical maximums making huge profits to oil exporting nations. Thanks to these benefits Iraaq and Saudi Arabia would both be able to maintain ambitious reforming projects during the next years. The oil importing nations learned then two important lessons: -their economies were then too dependable from oil imports. High oil prices would mean economical crisis. To be free of that dependency solution was found in alternative sources of energy, notably the Tesla Generators and, especially in France, nuclear power plants. -developed oil importing nations understood that they should treat underdeveloped nations as equal and not by the usual paternalistic/colonialist ways. Such would influence a lot the decolonisation wave in the next decade so as future co-operation maintained since then. The reforming projects With high oil prices Iraaq and Saudi Arabia were able to start radical and ambitious reforming projects. Although those projects were at first much successful and had the common people support they were dependable from oil prices. In these projects were made huge public works and caused important social changes. Especially these changes were disliked by the most conservative sectors (especially by the clergy). When the oil prices decreased the reforming projects came into failure. Such failure would be later to be much exploited by the conservative. The Oil Crisis of Hijra 1393 On November 1973 (1393 for the Moslem) oil prices crumbled down due to the excess of oil production in Iraaq and the decrease of oil imports. To such event wasn't almost given importance in the developed nations as the crisis didn't affect them. But the oil exporting countries sunk in economical crisis causing the failure of the reforming plans and the conservative were able to turn the tide in their favour. As consequence Abdul Karim Qassim compromised his wished pan-arab leadership so as Pan-Arabism lost its strength as political ideology. Arab countries were then divided between those who supported him (arab oil importing countries) and those who were against him (oil exporters). The conservative clergy, disliking the social changes caused by the reforming plans, were able to overthrow King Faisal I al-Saud (1975) and Qassim (1979) and both leaders found the same faith (both died during the coup d'etats) and their countries turned into radical religious regime. Such event would provide to next oil generation other important lessons. Changes should have the support of the whole population and shouldn't be too radical. Also was agreed that oil wealth isn't the same as development. Curiously this one was the opinion of the deposed general Qassim. The third oil generation Such generation was born mostly between 1940 and 1960. As the previous one they had academic studies made in developed countries. But they were different; they were open minded but also moderate. They learned from the mistakes made by the second oil generation. Also had the luck of ruling over small countries, much easier to rule. They understood that they shouldn't be too dependable from oil extraction and diversifying economy should be a major goal. Instead of being too worried with the maintenance of political power at all cost their worries were mostly economy and the radical religious wave coming from Iraaq and Saudi Arabia. When they reached power, during late 1970's, they started new reforming plans inspired by the Three Leaps Forward plan created by the deposed King Faisal I al-Saud, but much more moderate not to cause the hostility from the clergy and common conservative people. Such plans would find an important help when oil prices increased once again due to the Perso-Iraaqi War (1980-88) and the increase of the needs of oil by industrialised countries (due to growing petrochemical industry). But instead of just enjoying the higher oil benefits these new leaders used it to diversify economies starting industrialisation (especially manufacturing and petrochemicals) focusing on exporting to other nations. The location not far from India and Europe granted them important markets. Also opened their countries to foreign investment attracted by relatively low salaries. Later this economical diversification would also spread to banking services (especially in Bahrain and Dubai) and tourism. Socially the Third Oil Generation understood that they had to fight religious radicalism. Avoiding causing hostilities with the clergy the political rulers allied with them and used the Third Pillar of the Islam, the Zakat (spending a fixed portion of one's wealth for the poor or needy), to create a welfare system which also granted the common people's support. Also understood that less educated persons tend to hold more easily radical doctrines thousands of young students were sent to schools abroad to study and, collaterally and secretly, to open their minds. Also education was seen as a way to improve productivity. The Gulf Leopards today During the first ten years oil was the primal source of income of the seven Gulf Leopards. But as their economies were diversified they avoided the fluctuations of oil prices and consequent economical instability. Due to local and foreign investment these countries experienced since the 1980's some of the higher growth economical rates in the world. Such granted one of the highest standards of living worldwide to the people. In time also democratic reforms were made, usually much close to the so-called islamic democracy ideology (moderate conservative democracy under Islam principles). With the economical growth lots of modern architecture was built being the Gulf Leopards known as having nowadays some of the most spectacular modern buildings in the world. Together with its hot climate these countries became known, in tourist terms, as the Gulf Riviera which became one of the most important tourist destinations outside Summer months. Pedro Moderno
From wachevrier@hotmail.com Sun Feb 18 13:22:38 2007 Return-Path: <wachevrier@hotmail.com> X-Sender: wachevrier@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23492 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2007 21:22:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2007 21:22:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc3-s30.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.230) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2007 21:22:38 -0000 Received: from BAY109-W8 ([64.4.19.108]) by bay0-omc3-s30.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:21:46 -0800 Message-ID: <BAY109-W871DB046997C9047B3CFFCD8B0@phx.gbl> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e64f8a8f-64ee-421a-8903-f752d7dfbd59_" To: <conculture@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:21:46 +0000 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Return-Path: wachevrier@hotmail.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2007 21:21:46.0943 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBA034F0:01C753A2] X-Originating-IP: 65.54.246.230 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: wayne chevrier <wachevrier@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [conculture] IB: Questions concerning Oregon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2550847; y=P9OQb5EFY6nUDvXEXaXuOCCVPvulhB6KN4VL0WkPqTeyS6AXvPOFLg X-Yahoo-Profile: waynechevrier --_e64f8a8f-64ee-421a-8903-f752d7dfbd59_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 plikma@hotmail.com nevesht:
 
1) Would it be correct to say that Oregon is everything from 42º to
52º 40' and west of the continental divide?
 
42 degrees to 54 40', but following the drainage basin for the northern border

2) When did Oregon become independant?
 
Always was, various fur companies from several countries(inc. FK, France, Spain, NAL, Russia) had overlapping claims, an actual government was formed when settlers arrived(first major group came from Japan escaping the troubles ending with the Meiji Restoration and Satsura Rebellion)

3) Did Lewis and Clark happen *there*? (Presumably the French would
have used that route).
 
Not into Oregon

4) When did Oregon become Ecotopic? 1950s?
 
Environmental issues became important c. 1900 after a mine leachate disaster in the Flathead(poisoned the Columbia fishery for several seasons) combined with the aristocratic nature of the Herusiya(importance of traditional fishing/hunting/gathering rights). Ecotopic was added to the name of the country in the 1950's as the term and associated philosophy developed.

5) Is Oregon the first Ecotopic naion in the world?
 
It depends on your definition, but I think Cork may have used the term earlier.


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From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sun Feb 18 13:39:55 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47514 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2007 21:39:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Feb 2007 21:39:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.214) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2007 21:39:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n24.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2007 21:39:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2007 21:39:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:39:23 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erah2b+mppm@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.214 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Homo Habilior Worlds: Feb. 14-15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=yDoydd9LuB9Fo-nWm9lH1EA_hSA2p_me3clMgoV9SVJ9EG-9zQ X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 14 (Homo Habilior World-2) "After many months, some strangers arrived with their daughter, Gwenfrewi. At first Iwarssohn thought that.they were members of another interdimensional colony somewhere on this world, but he soon realized that their transporter was able to be held in the hand rather than requiring an entire ship. Iwarssohn secretly coveted this device. He led them out on the hunt, which they had desired greatly, and camped many nights before committing his perfidy." 15 (Homo Habilior World-1) The two men, one blonde-haired, blue-eyed, and fair-skin, the other black-haired, dark-eyed, and dark-skinned, with hideous scars, grappled in the dust of the African plain. "You will NOT harm Gwenfrewi!"Iwarssohn shouted. "Her death is worth the lives of the millions she will condemn to suffering and destruction!" "She wouldn't do such a thing!" "She will. I should warn you, white man, that if you spill my blood, you will contract the foul ape-disease of that girl." "Nice try." "No, husband," cried Lothilde. "He is telling the truth. I now recognize the signs."
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 19 02:33:10 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85763 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2007 10:33:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2007 10:33:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.56) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2007 10:33:08 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2007 10:32:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2007 10:32:55 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 10:32:53 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erbucl+2nsv@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <302009.54672.qm@web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: dawn of civilisation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=DZrclvsHixaqX19luzgGCuDPwjeoZ7sZPguGtLG3Y_Tg_MzDXQXzyQ X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > Going on from the "American megafauna" threads, does > anyone know of any specific reasons _why_ the earliest > river valley civilisations were in those particular > rivers? > > AFAIK, the earliest centres of civilisation in the Old > World were the Nile valley, Mesopotamia, the Indus > valley and the Yellow River. Is it just random chance > that there were no equivalent centres of civilisation > in other great rivers- the Ganges, the Congo, the > Mekong, the Yangtze, or others? > Or were there such civilisations, but for some reason > they never became powerful or well-known? > > What about non-hydraulic civilisations of similar > antiquity? I know of the Mycenaeans and the Minoan > culture, but are there others in other parts of the > world? > I've been looking stuff up in wikipedia (as usual), and have found these maps, which could be rather useful (especially the first two) - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_2000_BCE.png http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_1000_BCE.png http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_500_BCE.png http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_323_BCE.png http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_200_BCE.PNG http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_820.png > If we allow a "butterfly effect" as intense as > Llywelyn would like in our American non-extinction > timeline, wouldn't civilisation probably happen > elsewhere and in a different manner than *here? > Unless there are specific reasons why the river valley > civilisations that we know about came to prominence - > such as resources? > I have no problem with doing an IB-like timeline, with a limited butterfly effect in the pre-contact Old World (contact in this case is likely to be with the Vikings, though). Its just that I tend to follow chaos theory to its conclusions - *Random events are just that, random. *Some events (like the meeting of a particular egg-and-sperm combination) are more random than others (like astronomical phenomena). > Geoff >
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 19 03:12:43 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46568 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2007 11:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2007 11:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.71) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2007 11:12:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 71641 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2007 11:12:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: X8wUKpUVM1kZzQqIks26bCBnqcPuGz2XQkBm7COLL6fzBPBuzRyikQj3c6A.NRbnuHf1Me1keozkpuvbrVXKuxaB.0bmawDEsfFjTjOm9vTwPz4czeVMEukdbB8AtRInT2ECyJXwKGoNiY_n2qlb3CgiSYc- Received: from [65.69.153.141] by web26708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:12:36 GMT Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:12:36 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <erbucl+2nsv@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <857079.71181.qm@web26708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.71 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: dawn of civilisation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=SFeqvrGZ6A3khCqJbtCMXTU-xVYB24FoRW43gHuVKLUGr1p2aXvsDA X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood > <geoffhorswood@...> > wrote: > > > > Going on from the "American megafauna" threads, > does > > anyone know of any specific reasons _why_ the > earliest > > river valley civilisations were in those > particular > > rivers? > > > > AFAIK, the earliest centres of civilisation in the > Old > > World were the Nile valley, Mesopotamia, the Indus > > valley and the Yellow River. Is it just random > chance > > that there were no equivalent centres of > civilisation > > in other great rivers- the Ganges, the Congo, the > > Mekong, the Yangtze, or others? > > Or were there such civilisations, but for some > reason > > they never became powerful or well-known? > > > > What about non-hydraulic civilisations of similar > > antiquity? I know of the Mycenaeans and the > Minoan > > culture, but are there others in other parts of > the > > world? > > > > I've been looking stuff up in wikipedia (as usual), > and have found > these maps, which could be rather useful (especially > the first two) - > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_2000_BCE.png > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_1000_BCE.png > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_500_BCE.png > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_323_BCE.png > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_200_BCE.PNG > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_820.png > Very interesting! > > If we allow a "butterfly effect" as intense as > > Llywelyn would like in our American non-extinction > > timeline, wouldn't civilisation probably happen > > elsewhere and in a different manner than *here? > > Unless there are specific reasons why the river > valley > > civilisations that we know about came to > prominence - > > such as resources? > > > > I have no problem with doing an IB-like timeline, > with a limited > butterfly effect in the pre-contact Old World > (contact in this case > is likely to be with the Vikings, though). Unless you want to fully factualise St. Brendan and his Irish monks in about the 8th Century, or hypothetical Phoenician contact earlier still. It seems like Columbus was last. > Its just > that I tend to > follow chaos theory to its conclusions - > > *Random events are just that, random. > *Some events (like the meeting of a particular > egg-and-sperm > combination) are more random than others (like > astronomical > phenomena). > I have no real problem with a strongly divergent timeline. Li Alam is a lot more divergent than IB. I just like to be able to trace the lines of cause-and-effect through history. > > Geoff > > > > > ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 19 05:01:51 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41454 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2007 13:01:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2007 13:01:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2007 13:01:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2007 13:01:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2007 13:01:33 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 13:01:31 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erc73b+cuku@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <857079.71181.qm@web26708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: dawn of civilisation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=30wz44qaOvVV1x9PcNfgkkRmzo0vc7JEKzbQmGSa1Rov07I4FaS7Eg X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood > > <geoffhorswood@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Going on from the "American megafauna" threads, > > does > > > anyone know of any specific reasons _why_ the > > earliest > > > river valley civilisations were in those > > particular > > > rivers? > > > > > > AFAIK, the earliest centres of civilisation in the > > Old > > > World were the Nile valley, Mesopotamia, the Indus > > > valley and the Yellow River. Is it just random > > chance > > > that there were no equivalent centres of > > civilisation > > > in other great rivers- the Ganges, the Congo, the > > > Mekong, the Yangtze, or others? > > > Or were there such civilisations, but for some > > reason > > > they never became powerful or well-known? > > > > > > What about non-hydraulic civilisations of similar > > > antiquity? I know of the Mycenaeans and the > > Minoan > > > culture, but are there others in other parts of > > the > > > world? > > > > > > > I've been looking stuff up in wikipedia (as usual), > > and have found > > these maps, which could be rather useful (especially > > the first two) - > > > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_2000_BCE.png > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_1000_BCE.png > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_500_BCE.png > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_323_BCE.png > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_200_BCE.PNG > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:World_820.png > > > > Very interesting! > Thanks. Perhaps those could be edited to fit our American Megafauna (or whatever its going to be called) timeline. > > > If we allow a "butterfly effect" as intense as > > > Llywelyn would like in our American non-extinction > > > timeline, wouldn't civilisation probably happen > > > elsewhere and in a different manner than *here? > > > Unless there are specific reasons why the river > > valley > > > civilisations that we know about came to > > prominence - > > > such as resources? > > > > > > > I have no problem with doing an IB-like timeline, > > with a limited > > butterfly effect in the pre-contact Old World > > (contact in this case > > is likely to be with the Vikings, though). > > Unless you want to fully factualise St. Brendan and > his Irish monks in about the 8th Century, or > hypothetical Phoenician contact earlier still. It > seems like Columbus was last. > Well, I think that the Vikings would be the best bet. After all, in the 10th Centuary, who knows what those Amerindian Civilisations have been up to. I'd think that one or more East-Coast state would be sending up fishing expeditions up to Newfoundland. The're going to bump into someone sooner or later, so if its not the Norse, its probably going to be Basques. > > Its just > > that I tend to > > follow chaos theory to its conclusions - > > > > *Random events are just that, random. > > *Some events (like the meeting of a particular > > egg-and-sperm > > combination) are more random than others (like > > astronomical > > phenomena). > > > > I have no real problem with a strongly divergent > timeline. Li Alam is a lot more divergent than IB. I > just like to be able to trace the lines of > cause-and-effect through history. > I don't know about you, but I can (usually) manage just fine. What that says about me, I don't know? :) > > > Geoff > > >
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Mon Feb 19 14:10:58 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83918 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2007 22:10:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2007 22:10:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.217) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2007 22:10:58 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2007 22:10:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2007 22:10:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Feb 2007 22:10:57 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:10:54 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erd79e+j8m4@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.217 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Members who joined between Dec. 2006 and Feb. 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=hNH7FILD1Q6XERmsWqT_B2GkEEqVSykCvZGQhzUUrh5NclNpTXqY X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell Would the_keoan, bigfridge224, dubrovcanin2, bgmanofid, kubusjeczek, jimwilson_sf, tepetl11, and/or sean_b_palmer, like to introduce themselves? Tell everyone a little about themselves? Say something about their concultures?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Feb 19 15:58:49 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 35327 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2007 23:58:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Feb 2007 23:58:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52025.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.26) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2007 23:58:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 51141 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Feb 2007 23:58:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20070219235835.51139.qmail@web52025.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: iQGxdPwVM1nnxEtKf018HAUPPD2RHDavhNxpCVscXO6n7T9PotwPhfAPyw3ppZhLMDwUOuhfNXItbMgyKiOWqM2nWmO3vvgXPGwpFDTVUkYrZRVd6xJdxvjVM7KotGn1jpANZdOhrlcKt853fYhPvr2iEvSo5Vk3CkFnF_HuZ9qvOw3mvTdv Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52025.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:58:35 PST Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:58:35 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eq668e+5l95@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=v14wCw8QRnGLgL4i3scrCtuAOE5EvxWlc2cyqrLEKse3f1N5 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> wrote: > "Future Evolution: An Illuminated History of > Life to Come" by Peter > Ward. > It's an serious examination of future avenues > of evolution in a human- > dominated environment. I think I have this book somewhere, though I can't find it at the mo. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it really is a great resource. Lots of good pictures and descriptions of possible future beasties. > On that note, I have a couple of polycosmoi > (polycosmo w/omega) in > mind: > 1) where dwell truly Aquatic Apes (would there > extra adaptations?) I would expect so! I think it is now reasonably certain that whales and other aquatic mammals evolved from land animals. It would make very little sense for an aquatic ape to persist in being hairy and living in trees, for example! > 2) where the Nile empties into the Qattara > (does it ever reach the sea?) I think the Qattara is too deep at ~130m below sea level. The Wikipedia article mentions a plan to pipe seawater into the Q from the Med. The project would create a lake some 90m deep that would evaporate faster than new water is allowed in. I'm sure this project would alter the local ecosystem; but it might be an interesting project for IB's Egypt to undertake rather than flooding the area above Aswan. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Feb 19 16:06:55 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13040 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2007 00:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2007 00:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52022.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.56) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2007 00:02:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 78602 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Feb 2007 00:02:53 -0000 Message-ID: <20070220000253.78600.qmail@web52022.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: TFeeua8VM1nPIrgWaSTyzqWWQd1tpb8AT5ldjwQIe5hWn2oKnyExYbnNOsa5.MTWCg-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52022.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:02:53 PST Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:02:53 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eqv613+ne19@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Questions about the world in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=P-sAYhNc8UC9tu15n1qqMmCAbboLpcELxbVdj9MfW-Ch_tl- X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> > > wrote: > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > > Brown <elemtilas@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > So, perhaps around four and a half > billion > > > > > then? Anyway, I'm asking > > > > > because the technology in IB is less > > > advanced > > > > > in general than *here*. > > > > > > > > This is a perennial and common > misconception. > > > I'd > > > > be curious to know where you got the idea > > > from? > > > > If anything, IB's technology is > "differently > > > > advanced" rather than "less advanced". > > > > > > > > Is it because people ride around in > trains > > > and > > > > zeppelins? Or because they haven't really > > > gotten > > > > into space yet? I'm curious, because > you're > > > not > > > > the first commentator to say that IB's > > > > technological level is lower than *here*. > > > > > > > > Padraic > > > > > > > Its mentioned somewhere in the website that > the > > > average technology > > > level of IB is comparable to that of 1980's > > > *here*. I'd call that less advanced. > > > > > > Besides, I said "less advanced in general". > Its > > > as (if not more) > > > advanced in somethings, but less advanced > in > > > others. > > > > And sometimes they just don't have the same > > drives we've had *here* (no space race or > cold > > war, for example), so things come about > > differently. > > > > > Actually, starting a space-program with > 1980's > > > technology would be > > > much better than starting one with > 1950's-60's > > > technology. > > > > Well, there is that. I think the 80s > reference is > > by now out of date, but was probably intended > to > > give _some_ kind of indication of where they > are. > > If you can find it, we can look into it and > see > > about its merits. > > > > Here it it - > > http://ib.frath.net/w/Computers > > And the quote - > > "While IB's technological level is somewhere > equivalent to 15 years > ago (1980s), it is catching up. It is expected > that IB and *here* > will reach parity in another 20 years." > > I knew I'd seen it in there somewhere. Hm. I'm not the computer expert, but I really think that 1980s is a little too primitive for the technology! I would agree that _computer usage_ is probably somewhere in 1980s levels. PCs are some time away, if they ever evolve in that direction; and most people that use computers are in science, medicine, research, government and the military. There is the Teletecks network, which could evolve into a sort of interconnected computer network, but I think they haven't quite put two and two together yet. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From bread.sandwich@gmail.com Tue Feb 20 20:13:56 2007 Return-Path: <bread.sandwich@gmail.com> Received: (qmail 81638 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2007 04:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2007 04:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2007 04:10:32 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 04:10:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 04:10:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 04:10:22 -0000 X-Sender: bread.sandwich@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46449 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2007 17:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Feb 2007 17:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2007 17:54:35 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2007 17:54:35 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2007 17:54:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Feb 2007 17:54:35 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:54:34 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erfckq+7vf2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <erd79e+j8m4@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.167 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 194.80.176.253 From: "the_keoan" <bread.sandwich@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Members who joined between Dec. 2006 and Feb. 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=234483579; y=OEV62TzwoMRYYy8aSRawbsQTQUzjeNNzee-fChB16-7yresA X-Yahoo-Profile: the_keoan X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 21 Feb 2007 04:10:22 -0000 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > Would the_keoan, bigfridge224, dubrovcanin2, bgmanofid, kubusjeczek, > jimwilson_sf, tepetl11, and/or sean_b_palmer, like to introduce > themselves? Tell everyone a little about themselves? Say something > about their concultures? > I am a student in Wales, currently working on a few things. One is that I want to run a world of Darkness fantasy game in a world with modern technology, fantasy races and a multt-ethnic civil war situation. The other is an idea I had for a world I call Anadraxia where there are 300 million immortal souls constantly being reborn. However, the Human population passed 300 million 2 thousand years before technological parity with Earth. Those with souls have a mark over their eyes so that people know. This means that people are only just starting to deal with permanent death and relations between those who have souls and those who do not can be... strained, at best. In some cases, those with souls have been executed, and early in history children born without souls were quite often killed as babies out of mercy.
From murukctr@bigpond.com Wed Feb 21 07:52:18 2007 Return-Path: <murukctr@bigpond.com> Received: (qmail 94256 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2007 15:48:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2007 15:48:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.23) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2007 15:48:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 15:46:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 15:46:52 -0000 X-Sender: murukctr@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2954 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2007 06:37:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2007 06:37:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2007 06:37:38 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 06:37:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 06:37:25 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:37:25 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ergpb5+9a6k@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 144.137.90.236 From: "Colin Richardson" <murukctr@bigpond.com> Subject: New member - introducing myself X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299681896; y=MHuUqa0pZOfahYfzKNVnU4oXD85_F_TQgKZOSKCPL6OCPZTqJu1qKVd1OA X-Yahoo-Profile: colum_macardrigh X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 21 Feb 2007 15:46:49 -0000 Greetings to all! I am an Australian, resident in Australia, though have lived and worked for 15 years in parts of Africa, SE Asia and PNG. I am interested in languages (speak 4 - Eng, French, and 2 PNG linguae francae), and am interested in a conlang based on Hiri Motu, but developed further, as a lingua franca in Papua. From the point of view of the IB project, I would like to look at Papua, develop an alternative history and culture. I note from the WorldMap2001.png website, that the island of New Guinea (*here*) is divided into Papua (70%) with the balance being pockets of territory belonging to Japan, Mazapahit, Maluku and Bornei-Philipinas. A search only turned up 2 references to Papua (annexation 1883 by Kingsland, and independence granted by Kingsland 1949). Given 1949 for independence as a starting point for historical divergence (*here* independence being 1975), makes for an interesting search. Not many Papuan politicians known *here* in that time frame, and some of *here* politicians would in any case disappear (e.g. Sir Michael Somare - since his home area of the Sepik River would fall *there* in the Japanese territory (Admiral Yamamoto Land). Also, *there* Papua includes a large part of *here* West Irian/West Papua, excludes the Bismarck Islands, and clearly is lacking the German influence in *here* New Guinea. A nice challenge! What do you think? Colin Richardson (Colum MacArdRigh)
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Wed Feb 21 09:53:08 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47138 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2007 17:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2007 17:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2007 17:47:33 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 17:46:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 17:46:24 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:46:22 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eri0he+2e5m@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070219235835.51139.qmail@web52025.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.55 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=QMPTiZQhCV0n19w9hlViXoyUHF1piBo36d5kOf1sT2deZh8qPg X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@...> > wrote: > > > "Future Evolution: An Illuminated History of > > Life to Come" by Peter > > Ward. > > It's an serious examination of future avenues > > of evolution in a human- > > dominated environment. > > I think I have this book somewhere, though I > can't find it at the mo. If it's the one I'm > thinking of, it really is a great resource. Lots > of good pictures and descriptions of possible > future beasties. > > > On that note, I have a couple of polycosmoi > > (polycosmo w/omega) in > > mind: > > 1) where dwell truly Aquatic Apes (would there > > extra adaptations?) > > I would expect so! I think it is now reasonably > certain that whales and other aquatic mammals > evolved from land animals. It would make very > little sense for an aquatic ape to persist in > being hairy and living in trees, for example! The crucial question here is the availability of suitable marshy coasts near Earth-Prime's cradle of humanity. I was imagining a process which ends in more realistic merfolk via half-aquatic, swamp- dwelling hominins. > > > 2) where the Nile empties into the Qattara > > (does it ever reach the sea?) > > I think the Qattara is too deep at ~130m below > sea level. The Wikipedia article mentions a plan > to pipe seawater into the Q from the Med. The > project would create a lake some 90m deep that > would evaporate faster than new water is allowed > in. I'm sure this project would alter the local > ecosystem; but it might be an interesting project > for IB's Egypt to undertake rather than flooding > the area above Aswan. I'm familiar with the pipeline. FIU's Kingdom of Egypt might attempt it. But my idea is that since Egypt was one of the key civilizations of the ancient world, and the Nile was the lifeline, diverting the Nile would be a very big rock in the time stream. I initially thought of "No Nile World", but couldn't figure out how I could accomplish this. > > Padraic > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. Which conlang is this? A Sabine-influenced one? > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . >
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Wed Feb 21 10:01:41 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73350 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2007 18:01:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2007 18:01:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.22) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2007 18:01:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 18:00:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 18:00:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:00:07 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eri1b8+50j4@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <erfckq+7vf2@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.22 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: Members who joined between Dec. 2006 and Feb. 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=G2p6IfY4o7YusJS7Xy932sIawOOI543jcGX7MoRqvyKJdr5KsA X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "the_keoan" <bread.sandwich@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@> > wrote: > > > > Would the_keoan, bigfridge224, dubrovcanin2, bgmanofid, kubusjeczek, > > jimwilson_sf, tepetl11, and/or sean_b_palmer, like to introduce > > themselves? Tell everyone a little about themselves? Say something > > about their concultures? > > > > I am a student in Wales, currently working on a few things. > > One is that I want to run a world of Darkness fantasy game in a world > with modern technology, fantasy races and a multt-ethnic civil war > situation. > > The other is an idea I had for a world I call Anadraxia where there > are 300 million immortal souls constantly being reborn. However, the > Human population passed 300 million 2 thousand years before > technological parity with Earth. Those with souls have a mark over > their eyes so that people know. > > This means that people are only just starting to deal with permanent > death and relations between those who have souls and those who do not > can be... strained, at best. In some cases, those with souls have been > executed, and early in history children born without souls were quite > often killed as babies out of mercy. > I can tell Anadraxia's ethical/religious problems are going to be interesting! Does karma have any effect?
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Wed Feb 21 12:01:36 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25168 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2007 19:55:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2007 19:55:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2007 19:55:10 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 19:55:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 19:55:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 19:55:04 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:55:02 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eri82m+572d@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <ergpb5+9a6k@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.246.167 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: New member - introducing myself X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=LL29rrPU6dYmZi-GCsugiOr8T2YqK8nfeef9bsAuYekVnkeSgsCs X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno I had noted a long (well, I'm not here for so long) ago that Papua has so few references. It would be interesting to develop that world area a bit as so much can still be created. Pedro Moderno --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Richardson" <murukctr@...> wrote: > > Greetings to all! I am an Australian, resident in Australia, though > have lived and worked for 15 years in parts of Africa, SE Asia and > PNG. I am interested in languages (speak 4 - Eng, French, and 2 PNG > linguae francae), and am interested in a conlang based on Hiri Motu, > but developed further, as a lingua franca in Papua. From the point of > view of the IB project, I would like to look at Papua, develop an > alternative history and culture. I note from the WorldMap2001.png > website, that the island of New Guinea (*here*) is divided into Papua > (70%) with the balance being pockets of territory belonging to Japan, > Mazapahit, Maluku and Bornei-Philipinas. A search only turned up 2 > references to Papua (annexation 1883 by Kingsland, and independence > granted by Kingsland 1949). > > Given 1949 for independence as a starting point for historical > divergence (*here* independence being 1975), makes for an interesting > search. Not many Papuan politicians known *here* in that time frame, > and some of *here* politicians would in any case disappear (e.g. Sir > Michael Somare - since his home area of the Sepik River would fall > *there* in the Japanese territory (Admiral Yamamoto Land). Also, > *there* Papua includes a large part of *here* West Irian/West Papua, > excludes the Bismarck Islands, and clearly is lacking the German > influence in *here* New Guinea. A nice challenge! > > What do you think? > > Colin Richardson > (Colum MacArdRigh) >
From plikma@hotmail.com Wed Feb 21 12:24:01 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 60378 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2007 20:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2007 20:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.131) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2007 20:17:33 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 20:17:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 20:17:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 20:17:09 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:17:09 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eri9c5+sjvu@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.131 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: IB: Mixed Media Game X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=2V9k6bN_GUrIx1ywwsBDxc4vc3bI35tVJdeSqWD6p_bFgg X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas http://ib.frath.net/w/Mixed_Media_Game Something im working on... basically its <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_Reality_Game">ARG</a> without the internet. Important to note - the main difference is the way the fan community works rather than the way the l .
From bread.sandwich@gmail.com Thu Feb 22 08:01:31 2007 Return-Path: <bread.sandwich@gmail.com> Received: (qmail 54342 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2007 16:01:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.59) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:26 -0000 X-Sender: bread.sandwich@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93132 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2007 01:18:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2007 01:18:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.128) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2007 01:18:42 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2007 01:18:39 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2007 01:18:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2007 01:18:39 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 01:18:38 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erir1e+fj7j@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eri1b8+50j4@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.128 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 194.80.176.253 From: "the_keoan" <bread.sandwich@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Members who joined between Dec. 2006 and Feb. 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=234483579; y=nrKYybKNJetSzIRDZcprUzcE0ey8q0Iwgc2jZvASzHHN4koW X-Yahoo-Profile: the_keoan X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:25 -0000 > I can tell Anadraxia's ethical/religious problems are going to be > interesting! Does karma have any effect? > Not as such, I'm taking a very simple view of the soul. After death, the soul hangs around in the spiritual realm until a new body opens up, then it takes the first body it comes across. The concept of karma has no relevance in terms of what bodies people get born into. However, Karma is relevent in that souls eventually achieve transcendence after a few thousand times getting reborn. When this happens the soul rejoins The Transcendent Reality, which nobody knows anything about. Two new souls are then spat into the spiritual plane in its place. This is the only way new souls are born, and its very rare. There is a myth about another way souls come into the world. Some say the transcendent reality sometimes makes itself manifest in a prophet. The great heroes of Anadraxian religion are often these divine prophets. But they probably don't exist at all.
From murukctr@bigpond.com Thu Feb 22 08:09:45 2007 Return-Path: <murukctr@bigpond.com> Received: (qmail 90223 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2007 16:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Feb 2007 16:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Feb 2007 16:03:45 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:10 -0000 X-Sender: murukctr@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10034 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2007 23:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Feb 2007 23:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.107) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2007 23:41:36 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 23:41:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 23:41:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Feb 2007 23:41:33 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:41:32 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erilbc+hnqt@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.107 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 58.166.90.198 From: "Colin Richardson" <murukctr@bigpond.com> Subject: How do you create an IB account? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299681896; y=ZWQ4pyLUllOhTcRZQWbBbg0NEABafKDJ6M8pJlWD8LVlhTCeDHMaJXYmjQ X-Yahoo-Profile: colum_macardrigh X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 22 Feb 2007 16:01:09 -0000 BoArthur in Lla Dafern, says to simply post to conculture and we'll go from there. My ID and log in for conculture does not work for IB - and I can find no way of obtaining an ID and log in for IB. IB's main page also states "Alternatively, you may of course boldly enter Lla Dafern (The Pub) and introduce yourself there. Please create a user account first before editing in this wiki." (With a link on "user account".) But when one clicks on "user account" link, all that comes up is "User Login" - which is not very helpful. IOW, there seems to be no way to create a IB user account. Perhaps having posted to conculture, one just waits to be invited to join IB?
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Thu Feb 22 17:32:49 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68614 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2007 01:32:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2007 01:32:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.102) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2007 01:32:48 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n9.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2007 01:31:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2007 01:31:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2007 01:31:38 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 01:31:38 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erlg5q+ilf7@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <erilbc+hnqt@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.102 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 12.160.33.128 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: How do you create an IB account? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=OSTSdL2Lc1jIntUOU_EzPC3cndLUsxksj3XxXelg9-HYBcJg X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Colin Richardson" <murukctr@...> wrote: > > BoArthur in Lla Dafern, says to simply post to conculture and we'll go > from there. My ID and log in for conculture does not work for IB - and > I can find no way of obtaining an ID and log in for IB. > > IB's main page also states "Alternatively, you may of course boldly > enter Lla Dafern (The Pub) and introduce yourself there. Please create > a user account first before editing in this wiki." (With a link on > "user account".) > > But when one clicks on "user account" link, all that comes up is "User > Login" - which is not very helpful. IOW, there seems to be no way to > create a IB user account. > > Perhaps having posted to conculture, one just waits to be invited to > join IB? > Since you're here, why don't you go ahead and give us a nice resume of your ideas for IB? Or Questions? We love questions, as Quentin can attest!
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Fri Feb 23 14:52:32 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75914 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2007 22:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Feb 2007 22:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.122) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Feb 2007 22:46:35 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2007 22:44:41 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2007 22:44:41 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Feb 2007 22:44:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 22:44:41 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ernqop+q8fo@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.122 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosmic News: Feb. 17-22 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=_ZIeRY0kgNmdAWTjCtLsqb5HXkU_TpvSlPJKNLsxTEkORy6edQ X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 17 (FIU) ARAKAN, Kingdom of Burma - Police dispersed a potentially riotous crowd demonstrating against the alliance of Kingdom and Republic. The crowd initially was sufficiently restrained so that the police reciprocated, but then certain indiscreet persons forced the police to retaliate. 18 (FIU) ROMA, Papal Estates - Pope Damasus III has reiterate his denial of the annual petition that "the year should be divided not only according to the seasons, but according to the difference of an hour." 19 (Merfolk World) It is a marvelous tale the sailors tell! They who crewed the execution ship of Ákos, son of Iszák, say that just as the executioners had spread the chum and were about toss Ákos, son of Iszák, into the intestinal mass, a herd of merfolk surfaced and demanded that they be given the prisoner. The captain of the execution ship foolishly refused. 20 (FIU) From The Wonderful and Glorious History of the Life of Our Queen, Arakan Press: The governor of the Andaman Islands returned to Arakan with his young mistress. Our king was then a young man and had never seen the islands over which he ruled. When he saw the mistress of his companion, the governor, he too desired her. He did not pursue her, for he did not wish to upset the governor. Then the governor betrayed the king. His mistress secretly learned of the treachery and warned the king. In gratitude, the king executed the governor and took her as his mistress. 21 (Earth-Tasmanian Devil) The Healer and Canida followed Pranvera to the maternity ward. Several pens were surrounded by plastic barriers. Pranvera gestured towards one of the pens, in which a female of her species lay prostrate and exhausted after parturition. Eight small, slimy naked whelps stirred without apparent purpose. "Watch what happens next," Pranvera said. After a minute or two, the instinct of the babies kicked in, and several began to crawl towards the two teats of their mothers. The foremost was making good time until the one immediately behind him shoved him violently to one side and bared astonishingly sharp teeth at him. "How does the mother suckle all eight?" "All eight? Two teats means two children. The ones which reach the food source first." "What about the others?" "They die." 22 (Detective World) Time: late 1930's Place: Arizona The three cars pulled up near the scene of the crime almost at the same time. From the first car emerged the local crime solvers, brothers Manley and Medford Royal, along with their sister Alice Beth. The second car deposited the teenage sleuths of Bayton, brother Hank and Joel Faraday, onto the dusty red soil. The last car contained the distaff detective of Big Creek Bluff, the stylish Dana Wren and her tomboy friend Jane Forgill. The Faraday brothers and Dana Wren followed the Royal brothers up the steep slopes where the murder had taken place; Alice Beth and Forgill remained a considerable distance behind. "These are the five greatest detectives in the world," said Forgill to Alice Beth. "How could they disagree?" "I can tell you," said a voice behind them.
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Fri Feb 23 16:27:13 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78397 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 00:27:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 00:27:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 00:27:12 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 3801914400C; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:20:37 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5D914400D for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:20:34 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07542-03 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:20:31 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F37714400C for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:20:31 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:20:40 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <ernqop+q8fo@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <ernqop+q8fo@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200702241320.40753.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: Re: [conculture] Polycosmic News: Feb. 17-22 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=2gtETIIAIgi8jYpbXBywmoHCnG5gowTgG9LwmQe0kuGc0lVZXoV9ctit X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir On Saturday 24 February 2007 11:44 am, habarakhe4 wrote: > 22 > (Detective World) > Time: late 1930's > Place: Arizona > The three cars pulled up near the scene of the crime almost at the > same time. From the first car emerged the local crime solvers, > brothers Manley and Medford Royal, along with their sister Alice > Beth. The second car deposited the teenage sleuths of Bayton, brother > Hank and Joel Faraday, onto the dusty red soil. The last car > contained the distaff detective of Big Creek Bluff, the stylish Dana > Wren and her tomboy friend Jane Forgill. The Faraday brothers and > Dana Wren followed the Royal brothers up the steep slopes where the > murder had taken place; Alice Beth and Forgill remained a > considerable distance behind. > "These are the five greatest detectives in the world," said Forgill > to Alice Beth. "How could they disagree?" > "I can tell you," said a voice behind them. > All we need now is a crossover with Detective World's equivalent of Enid Blyton's Famous Five. That would be the true meaning of Fear! :) - andrew.
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Fri Feb 23 16:32:54 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75167 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 00:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 00:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 00:32:51 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id DBD46144005; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:15:46 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C22014400C for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:15:43 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07542-02 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:15:40 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618B2144005 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:15:40 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:15:42 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <erir1e+fj7j@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <erir1e+fj7j@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200702241315.42597.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Members who joined between Dec. 2006 and Feb. 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=eOG_HDFRHkppdLckyvfxVspIooHFwJBrH3nLSEWK2sFztitbmzvFvNwe X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir On Thursday 22 February 2007 2:18 pm, the_keoan wrote: > > I can tell Anadraxia's ethical/religious problems are going to be > > interesting! Does karma have any effect? > > Not as such, I'm taking a very simple view of the soul. After death, > the soul hangs around in the spiritual realm until a new body opens > up, then it takes the first body it comes across. The concept of > karma has no relevance in terms of what bodies people get born into. > When does a soul enter a new body? At conception, or birth, or during pregnancy? > However, Karma is relevent in that souls eventually achieve > transcendence after a few thousand times getting reborn. When this > happens the soul rejoins The Transcendent Reality, which nobody knows > anything about. Two new souls are then spat into the spiritual plane > in its place. This is the only way new souls are born, and its very > rare. > Does The Transcendent Reality spit out souls that are previously transcended, or are these souls original creations? - andrew.
From plikma@hotmail.com Sat Feb 24 03:40:17 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30748 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 11:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 11:40:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.128) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 11:40:16 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 11:39:14 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 11:39:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 11:39:14 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 11:39:14 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erp852+tq7c@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.128 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: IB: Questions concerning the NAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=mbZBx-l7f4nC8kZOHnvxP2Rk0xJL64sCGB30inwPkypT_Q X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas 1) Who are council fire and what do they do? Is it another name for the Viceregal college, or is it something to do with Aquanishuonigy? 2) If, theoretically, the monarch nominates the viceroys, what about the native viceroy? The GM? Native monarchs (CN, Miami)? Council Fire? 3) Is there a national PO in the NAL (like the USPS or FDEx)? What about in LA? 4) Does the Louisianne/LP border go north of the Mizouri so that all of the west of St Louis is in LA? 5) Is the border between Ouisconsin and Illinoise the river Illinoise where it meets teh Middisipi
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Feb 24 07:07:47 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28538 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 15:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 15:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52018.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.250) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 15:07:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 51754 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Feb 2007 15:04:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20070224150442.51752.qmail@web52018.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: GnPrM08VM1m.GpTjRrOQBu.mvi3i2iSgxsoV5h4.Y249gjjXyH24AN9dtPksJXoVlQ-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52018.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 07:04:42 PST Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 07:04:42 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <erp852+tq7c@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.250 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Questions concerning the NAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=lPdfRA-Fk1MBlzmfbk9jOgBdEMULcxy1NmFmPsYmlUT18fpH X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > 1) Who are council fire and what do they do? Is > it another name for > the Viceregal college, or is it something to do > with Aquanishuonigy? The Council Fire is not really a governmental body. It is a gathering of Native representatives, presumably originally the Five Nations (now Aquonishuonigy); anymore it almost certainly includes a far broader membership. I would assume that their principle duties are the promotion of Native interests in modern America and the cooperation of Native governments within modern America. They get a mention in recent times because it is traditional for polities that seek admission to the League that they present their claims and proposal before the Council Fire for consideration and blessing. That is, the Natives get a kind of right of first refusal, even though no one's ever actually been refused. This ceremony is simply a rehashing of earlier times when the Newcomers (i.e., the Europeans) sought alliance with the Native nations. Though it is the European government that has become ascendant, it is still felt important that the Native governing bodies be consulted in such important matters. > 2) If, theoretically, the monarch nominates the > viceroys, what about > the native viceroy? The GM? Native monarchs > (CN, Miami)? Council Fire? Possibly the Council Fire. That would make sense. > 3) Is there a national PO in the NAL (like the > USPS or FDEx)? What > about in LA? Yes, there is an American postal service, known as the Royal Post Service. It was standardised by one Benjamin Franklin, a famous philosopher, printer and scientist of xviij century Philadelphia. Its symbol is a crowned "RP" within a circular post horn. LA has "Le Post Louisiannaise", and there is an article on the Wiki. > 4) Does the Louisianne/LP border go north of > the Mizouri so that all > of the west of St Louis is in LA? The NAL / LA border follows the Missouri / Mizouri River from its joining with the Mississippi all the way up to about Great Falls (Montana), where the border with Oregon moves to the northwest. There is a map on the Atlas page at www.bethisad.com that shows this pretty well. > 5) Is the border between Ouisconsin and > Illinoise the river Illinoise > where it meets teh Middisipi In part, yes. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Sat Feb 24 08:11:53 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75894 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 16:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 16:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.114) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 16:11:53 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n13.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 16:11:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 16:11:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 16:11:51 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:11:49 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erpo45+ko4q@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <200702241320.40753.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.114 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Polycosmic News: Feb. 17-22 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=j6daPsToq2IvobH8ROIz_RZPD5d4sqFIjKnH6JVB_alGyBComBZQ X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, andrew <hobbit@...> wrote: >[snip] > ... Enid Blyton's Famous Five. ... Just a few days ago I was thinking of a story I'd been read 47 years ago as an 8yo child on board the P&O Corfu on my way to India. I couldn't remember the title or author, only the characters' names and some of their characteristics. Thanks to you, I now realize it must have been one of Blyton's "Five" stories -- probably the first. Thank you.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Feb 24 09:41:13 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 91016 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 17:39:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 17:39:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52022.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.56) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 17:39:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 29615 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Feb 2007 17:39:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20070224173933.29613.qmail@web52022.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 7F51PxMVM1k.gPs1lSk_cBBDHG.Toee_TB6x5kCQiT_Lh_ouzMwaNXYMPVWIa2G.Y8lnhy.PnoNEfGxLqwR8eBRPvf_FvMGKOkbFnBzm0bTIcl5lj0HtozrBHN7cf9liCDhDMZAr24EjupXWaTvVPvJyFpQ8ruYZsUVjv94SDACwOINIDgg- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52022.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:39:33 PST Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:39:33 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070224150442.51752.qmail@web52018.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Questions concerning the NAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=UUuG33mpI8ya2R_0u-WlKvvYcB2PXa8UT_jbNF2t0tPUDpAK X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > 1) Who are council fire and what do they do? > Is > > it another name for > > the Viceregal college, or is it something to > do > > with Aquanishuonigy? See <http://ib.frath.net/w/Council_Fire> -- it contains everything I was able to find about this body. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From plikma@hotmail.com Sat Feb 24 11:41:47 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84608 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 19:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 19:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.246) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 19:41:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n20.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 19:41:37 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 19:41:36 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 19:41:36 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erq4dg+qj40@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070224150442.51752.qmail@web52018.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.246 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: IB: Questions concerning the NAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=2YW6ILkliFokyuz82jNTPHt3dCg5Dv0FC2p2ajm70SLUYw X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas > > 4) Does the Louisianne/LP border go north of > > the Mizouri so that all > > of the west of St Louis is in LA? > > The NAL / LA border follows the Missouri / > Mizouri River from its joining with the > Mississippi all the way up to about Great Falls > (Montana), where the border with Oregon moves to > the northwest. There is a map on the Atlas page > at www.bethisad.com that shows this pretty well. > Yes, but according to <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=St+Louis&ie=UTF8&z=12&ll8.398989,-90.357742&spn=0.161438,0.488892&om=1&iwloc=addr">this map</a>, most of St Louis is north of the river. Wouldn't that put in LP? That's really why I was asking. Because that's w hat i thought too but i didn't get why does the border go around?
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sat Feb 24 12:52:04 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13926 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 20:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 20:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.207) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 20:52:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n19.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 20:50:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 20:50:52 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 20:50:52 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erq8fc+eu9l@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <200702241320.40753.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.207 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 216.38.149.50 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: Polycosmic News: Feb. 17-22 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=8FgtbsFFHrURccrlX8SOtbx775IbQ9ZgEQHz-2e-4XLCZcC68Q X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, andrew <hobbit@...> wrote: > > On Saturday 24 February 2007 11:44 am, habarakhe4 wrote: > > > 22 > > (Detective World) > > Time: late 1930's > > Place: Arizona > > The three cars pulled up near the scene of the crime almost at the > > same time. From the first car emerged the local crime solvers, > > brothers Manley and Medford Royal, along with their sister Alice > > Beth. The second car deposited the teenage sleuths of Bayton, brother > > Hank and Joel Faraday, onto the dusty red soil. The last car > > contained the distaff detective of Big Creek Bluff, the stylish Dana > > Wren and her tomboy friend Jane Forgill. The Faraday brothers and > > Dana Wren followed the Royal brothers up the steep slopes where the > > murder had taken place; Alice Beth and Forgill remained a > > considerable distance behind. > > "These are the five greatest detectives in the world," said Forgill > > to Alice Beth. "How could they disagree?" > > "I can tell you," said a voice behind them. > > > All we need now is a crossover with Detective World's equivalent of Enid > Blyton's Famous Five. That would be the true meaning of Fear! :) > > - andrew. > Detective World, despite its name, is not solely based on youthful sleuths. The dominance of the Faraday Brothers and Dana Wren, however, makes the contribution of the roving Glover Boys, the Robbins Twins (both pairs), and the Sam Twist tech dynasty less prominent. The Robbins Twins switched to more sleuthy endeavors, and TwistTech is a sort of benign version LuthorCorp by the mid-fifties. The Twist family, unlike the others aforementioned, is not longaeval. Speaking of the Famous Five, has it occurred to anyone that the Blytonverse would have a lot of well-trained former kid gumshoes in the fifties and sixties? I imagine that many of them would be British government agents!
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Feb 24 14:48:43 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10155 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 22:47:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 22:47:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52030.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.31) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 22:47:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 2835 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Feb 2007 22:47:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20070224224721.2833.qmail@web52030.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: a9.FORYVM1kM66grH9Nh7wn9CC3OjQwyJgfbXyux3.2_FwBSExVqraQx4Wwnb_fUJjo5FOXwaM7JFWbDWgorGFZTEnBOaCy4xDfOxabFn0TQsVZjPbuqsdsaQFAbj_Qy.xA.IEyolyHCGVBQmASIGVRjlJEvvBsQqYnZnu.GkITYCycHAON4 Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52030.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Feb 2007 14:47:21 PST Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 14:47:21 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <erq4dg+qj40@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Questions concerning the NAL X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=aQ3qC5LXJmhdJwVHDCXonjIcyY0jIDAv25Nto68TuunApuXk X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > 4) Does the Louisianne/LP border go north > > > of the Mizouri so that all > > > of the west of St Louis is in LA? > > > > The NAL / LA border follows the Missouri / > > Mizouri River from its joining with the > > Mississippi all the way up to about Great > > Falls > > (Montana), where the border with Oregon moves > > to > > the northwest. There is a map on the Atlas > > page > > at www.bethisad.com that shows this pretty > > well. > > > > Yes, but according to this map <http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=St+Louis&ie=UTF8&z=12&ll=38.398989,-90.357742&spn=0.161438,0.488892&om=1&iwloc=addr">> most of St Louis is north of the > river. Wouldn't that put in > LP? That's really why I was asking. Because > that's w hat i thought too > but i didn't get why does the border go around? How do you figure? I'm looking at a fairly magnified *here*'s St. Louis on that map and it's all south of the Missouri and west of the Mississippi. *There*, there is also a St. Louis on the NAL side of the Mississippi. Looking on the above map, *here*'s West Alton, St. Charles and St. Peters are all on the NAL side of the river. Florissant, Maryland Heights and Chesterfield are all on the LA side. The border "goes around" because it follows the Missouri to its junction with the Mississippi at Hartford, and then follows the Mississippi on down. This allows for St. Louis to be in Louisianna, as it is a farily major entry point. Hope that clarifies things! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sat Feb 24 20:17:45 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83330 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2007 04:17:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2007 04:17:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.117) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2007 04:17:44 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 04:17:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 04:17:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 04:17:10 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 04:17:10 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <err2k6+5jvo@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.117 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Homo Habilior Worlds: Feb. 23-24 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=wfAOjvP8Lls_qR7sl_OEQ0TrqKpc91lZ6n1ob90WHZDQ1bqknQ X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 23 (Homo Habilior World-2) Melisande to Popopoyoll: "I do not know what transpired on that fatal hunt - Iwarssohn claims that the husband slew the wife and then himself. I believe, however, that he killed them himself in order to procure the device. He did not bring the handheld transporter back to the camp, so I assume he left it inoperational in the field." "Ayawsiwall, the woman who shanghaied me for diagnosing Gwenfrewi, the other one in the other time line, has a handheld transporter. But you know that - what you don't know is that the device only works for people from its world of origin. What about Gwenfrewi, this Gwenfrewi?" 24 (Homo Habilior World-1) Iwarssohn, astonished, turned to his wife. "What do you mean that this man has the same ape-disease as Gwenfrewi?" Lothilde gazed, level, at her husband. "I, not you, have the medical training. Let the man explain." Iwarssohn released the swarthy stranger from his grip. "Explain." The stranger stood at the distance and glared at Iwarssohn. "My name is Tilmassin." Gwenfrewi gasped and stumbled backwards into Melisande's grave. "Tilmassin?" "Yes. Tilmassin. You might remember me in a slightly younger form."
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Sat Feb 24 22:10:29 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87458 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2007 06:10:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2007 06:10:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2007 06:10:27 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 68CFB14400C; Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:02:59 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BD114400D for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:02:56 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31728-02 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:02:53 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F5E14400C for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:02:52 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:02:57 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <erq8fc+eu9l@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <erq8fc+eu9l@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200702251902.57953.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Polycosmic News: Feb. 17-22 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=vThnqcvCi5QClPbvpIHr0KjQtpVrFwOKm94iFbprmB4Vxd3aSrAULHc0 X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir On Sunday 25 February 2007 9:50 am, habarakhe4 wrote: > Speaking of the Famous Five, has it occurred to anyone that the > Blytonverse would have a lot of well-trained former kid gumshoes in > the fifties and sixties? I imagine that many of them would be > British government agents! > George and Bond are probably sitting around wondering what to do with Alex Ryder. - andrew.
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 26 03:19:29 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22698 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 11:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 11:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.67) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 11:19:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 46146 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Feb 2007 11:19:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20070226111911.46144.qmail@web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 9xqC9MMVM1kUB28btzw4kASKVYpyhwG2LiLMk_Mr85c7as.K5uhk.vdO9a_QTZdktBe5L11.fw96zbcaLhFO7s.nxGIPTIf0QUTnk6OZYz9BEbEqHEJU9ge1gqKV2hd_uRRvn2hf Received: from [67.64.115.204] by web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:19:11 GMT Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:19:11 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.67 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: American Ice-Age survivors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=zOMCybd-HI9u90zQiDa5US8we3M6HWWTVEhstaZcMUfv9Yf7LjhQmQ X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood Did we ever come to any decision about what species we are going to allow to survive in our New World TL? Horses (how many of the 5 species of equine?) and camels, certainly, but are we going to rescue anything else from extinction? I like the idea of several of the ice-age beasts roaming into our New-World-with-domestications TL, but I'm torn between the "oh, that creature would be cool to have" impulse to keep adding things, and the wish to keep the TL relatively realistic. I really like the thought of a proboscidean; and Wikipedia rather tantalisingly puts the extinction of the gomphothere _Cuvieronus_ at around 400BC, but I can't find any confirmation of this, or much at all about the creature beyond its name. It seems to have lived in Florida and Argentina. Then there are some smaller creatures: the dwarf pronghorn, the giant hutia of the Caribbean (domesticable as a rabbit/guineapig-type food animal?), another kind of hare (_Aztlanolagus_) and the short-faced skunk. And a couple of predators I keep wanting to add: the Dire Wolf (it seems to have been mostly a scavenger; my thought was that a hyena analogue is hardly going to have trouble) and just to spice things up, the American Cheetah _Miracinonyx trumani_). Help! Save me from the impulse to keep adding things! I find myself wanting to say something like "and a ground sloth or two, and if we have the cheetah, maybe the American Lion could survive too, and...) Arrgh! Geoff ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 26 03:56:13 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14355 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 11:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m38a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 11:56:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.102) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 11:56:10 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n9.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 11:56:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 11:56:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 11:56:06 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:56:05 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eruhsl+tj35@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070226111911.46144.qmail@web26704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.102 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: American Ice-Age survivors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=pZx_57FFBenzVGT9uO-Wz6y9okPownal1HoNxyh39s9c2abKKCSnJQ X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > Did we ever come to any decision about what species we > are going to allow to survive in our New World TL? > Don't think so. We'd better do that now. > Horses (how many of the 5 species of equine?) and > camels, certainly, but are we going to rescue anything > else from extinction? > Maybe two or three. So, we could have one large one as a New-World horse, and one or two as New-World donkeys. Two might be just fine. > I like the idea of several of the ice-age beasts > roaming into our New-World-with-domestications TL, but > I'm torn between the "oh, that creature would be cool > to have" impulse to keep adding things, and the wish > to keep the TL relatively realistic. Calm down Geoff. Take deap breaths > > I really like the thought of a proboscidean; and > Wikipedia rather tantalisingly puts the extinction of > the gomphothere _Cuvieronus_ at around 400BC, but I > can't find any confirmation of this, or much at all > about the creature beyond its name. It seems to have > lived in Florida and Argentina. That could be a good New-World elephant analouge. > > Then there are some smaller creatures: the dwarf > pronghorn, the giant hutia of the Caribbean > (domesticable as a rabbit/guineapig-type food > animal?), another kind of hare (_Aztlanolagus_) and > the short-faced skunk. Those would probably be fine. > > And a couple of predators I keep wanting to add: the > Dire Wolf (it seems to have been mostly a scavenger; > my thought was that a hyena analogue is hardly going > to have trouble) and just to spice things up, the > American Cheetah _Miracinonyx trumani_). No problem with those. > > Help! Save me from the impulse to keep adding things! > I find myself wanting to say something like "and a > ground sloth or two, and if we have the cheetah, maybe > the American Lion could survive too, and...) > Giant sloth is sooooo tempting. Perhaps the lion could survive. But no Sabretooths. I repeat - NO SABRETOOTHS. :) > Arrgh! Peace friend. Calm your mind. > > Geoff > > ===== > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England >
From murukctr@bigpond.com Mon Feb 26 08:46:28 2007 Return-Path: <murukctr@bigpond.com> Received: (qmail 73854 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 16:46:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 16:46:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.108) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 16:46:27 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n11.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:20 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:20 -0000 X-Sender: murukctr@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85978 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2007 01:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2007 01:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.215) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2007 01:10:15 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 01:10:02 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 01:10:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 01:10:02 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 01:10:01 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erqnl9+nl48@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.215 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 58.165.184.40 From: "Colin Richardson" <murukctr@bigpond.com> Subject: Luba, Kasai, Lunda and Katanga etc X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299681896; y=kZtCxWWeFQyJ8CbJFRtLSw7FNvprAP-wHdlKdopBQjmAq8zN92owB8Kp-Q X-Yahoo-Profile: colum_macardrigh X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:20 -0000 Reading the IBWiki notes on Katanga, then comparing with Luba, Lunda and Kasai, it seems to me that there has been some arbitrary line drawing on maps and definitions of boundaries, without reference to actualities of *here*. The proposal artical on Katanga seems to focus primarily on geopolitics, with little reference to the ethnic realities. Sure, *there* is based on QSS; but QAA suggests some connection to *here* realities, allowing for divergence. What seems to have been overlooked is that Katanga *here* is primarily Luba/Lunda, and the dominant local language is Kiluba (not Tshiluba - which is the dialect spoken in Kasai!). The 15th century Luba/Lunda empires *here* were predominantly in Katanga/Kasai, not further north in the *now* provinces of Equateur and the Congo rainsforest basin, as suggested in the IBWiki articles. Not saying that in althist this could not be different, but feel that some justification for the move from *here* is needed in terms of how/why the tribal foci are so far north, when elsewhere in Africa ethnic divides seem to be related to *here*. Thoughts, anyone?
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Mon Feb 26 08:48:18 2007 Return-Path: <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 84511 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 16:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23d.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.213) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n23.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:44:45 -0000 X-Sender: kode_conlangs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 99585 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2007 04:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Feb 2007 04:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.213) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Feb 2007 04:24:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n16.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 04:23:58 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 04:23:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Feb 2007 04:23:58 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 04:23:58 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <err30u+stfm@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <BAY109-W871DB046997C9047B3CFFCD8B0@phx.gbl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.213 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 63.167.237.65 From: "kode_conlangs" <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Questions concerning Oregon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=300122342; y=pRRKATCcRwl8HDNszEsWogoBCIb0Q6u11NlXr0QjzR1D3WkUicIJCw X-Yahoo-Profile: kode_conlangs X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 26 Feb 2007 16:44:44 -0000 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, wayne chevrier <wachevrier@...> wrote: > > > plikma@... nevesht: > > > > 1) Would it be correct to say that Oregon is everything from 42º to52º 40' and west of the continental divide? > > 42 degrees to 54 40', but following the drainage basin for the northern border > 2) When did Oregon become independant? > > Always was, various fur companies from several countries(inc. FK, France, Spain, NAL, Russia) had overlapping claims, an actual government was formed when settlers arrived(first major group came from Japan escaping the troubles ending with the Meiji Restoration and Satsura Rebellion) 3) Did Lewis and Clark happen *there*? (Presumably the French wouldhave used that route). > > Not into Oregon 4) When did Oregon become Ecotopic? 1950s? > > Environmental issues became important c. 1900 after a mine leachate disaster in the Flathead(poisoned the Columbia fishery for several seasons) combined with the aristocratic nature of the Herusiya(importance of traditional fishing/hunting/gathering rights). Ecotopic was added to the name of the country in the 1950's as the term and associated philosophy developed.5) Is Oregon the first Ecotopic naion in the world? > > It depends on your definition, but I think Cork may have used the term earlier. > > . -- Wayne Chevrier How much of a native Amerindian presence is there in Oregon? IIRC the Columbia basin supported a large number of people, who were still quite dense on the ground *here* when Lewis & Clark stopped by. Did the native populations suffer from diseases *there* to the extent that they did *here*, and were they able to recover their numbers enough to be a factor in present-day Oregon?
From murukctr@bigpond.com Mon Feb 26 08:48:53 2007 Return-Path: <murukctr@bigpond.com> Received: (qmail 92620 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 16:48:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 16:48:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.55) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 16:48:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:46:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:46:53 -0000 X-Sender: murukctr@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74310 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 14:10:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 14:10:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 14:10:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 14:09:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 14:09:53 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 14:09:52 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erpgvg+evnq@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <erlg5q+ilf7@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 58.165.184.40 From: "Colin Richardson" <murukctr@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: How do you create an IB account? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299681896; y=OmtfCLATABu3ODrgmcL_riaEg1JjbVoLvw6yJWGV0B6T-_96r9bkFp-2Zw X-Yahoo-Profile: colum_macardrigh X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 26 Feb 2007 16:46:52 -0000 > Since you're here, why don't you go ahead and give us a nice resume of > your ideas for IB? Or Questions? We love questions, as Quentin can > attest! > Thanks for the comment Daniel - I may expand a little further on it sometime soon. I already posted basic idea for a part of IB I would like to work on - Papua. I grew up there, and have worked there since, speak the 2 main linguae francae, Hiri Motu and Tok Pisin. See my comments in message 22805 (22 Feb). In IB Papua Tok Pisin would probably not exist - it was introduced by the Germans *here*, and in IB they appear to have had no presence in the region. The divergence thus starts at least as early as 1883 - and intensifies in 1949 with Kingsland granting independence to Papua (*here* indep was 1975). The Dutch presence *here* seems largely missing *there* (per the map referred to), and there is a Japanese presence in the NW. Kingsland Papua then is much larger that is Australian Papua *here*, extending into parts of *here* West Papua, and including a large part of *here* German New Guinea. I am curious as to any QSS impact on the status of the Bismarck islands (New Britain, New Ireland, Manus, Bougainville) and the Solomon Islands (all *here*). In the map referred to (http://ib.frath.net/w/images/0/08/WorldMap2001.png), these islands do not seem to be part of Papua, but are coloured as if part of Australasia - but I can find no reference to them in any Australasia-related article in IB. Any comments anyone? Same problem with the Japanese portion as shown on the map - Admiral Yamamoto Land. Ditto the Maluku, Mazahapit and Bornei-Philipinas enclaves indicated on the map - nothing found in IB text except the "Australasia and the Pacific" Archive ideas, some of which are not taken up in other parts of the Pacific. Anyone know of any work done in this area? This would imply that the linguistic situation that prevailed in *here* Papua from the colonial impact (the adoption of Motu as an intertribal language for administration) would extend to the whole of the *there* territory - a totally different situation cf *here*, and one that would have modified the form of the pidginised Motu (Police or Hiri Motu). I'm not clear in studying IB to what extent *here* real persons can validly by included *there*. Is there a rule on persons still living being included *there*, especially when they are known to be present *here* before the divergence point?
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Mon Feb 26 08:49:26 2007 Return-Path: <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 11797 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 16:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 16:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 16:49:26 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:40 -0000 X-Sender: kode_conlangs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83535 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 23:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 23:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.50) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 23:14:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n21.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 23:14:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 23:14:05 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:14:04 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erqgrs+4440@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <erd79e+j8m4@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.50 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 63.167.237.65 From: "kode_conlangs" <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Members who joined between Dec. 2006 and Feb. 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=300122342; y=urQiBXDqSoxZoV5wTMVkIvlVtU8pLQ7XD8AS85GH9-qZ5eVyy0NRNA X-Yahoo-Profile: kode_conlangs X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:38 -0000 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > Would the_keoan, bigfridge224, dubrovcanin2, bgmanofid, kubusjeczek, > jimwilson_sf, tepetl11, and/or sean_b_palmer, like to introduce > themselves? Tell everyone a little about themselves? Say something > about their concultures? > I just joined today (Feb. 24). Those of you on the CBB or ZBB may know me as kodé /k_>o"te/ [k_>OU"de:]. My concontinent is called (temporarily) Santres Maxure, in a not-yet- created daughterlang of Old Sanhr (or one of its relatives). There's not really much concrete that I've produced, but I have been working on it since I was around 8 or 9 (I'm 20 right now). As regards conculturing/-worlding, I'm most interested in history, esp. of wars and of ideas, geography, both physical and human, sociology and economic structure, and philosophy and religion. Of course, I'm also big on conlanging, of course.
From bread.sandwich@gmail.com Mon Feb 26 08:50:13 2007 Return-Path: <bread.sandwich@gmail.com> Received: (qmail 69059 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 16:46:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 16:46:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 16:46:16 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:55 -0000 X-Sender: bread.sandwich@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51683 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2007 14:37:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Feb 2007 14:37:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.187) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Feb 2007 14:37:57 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n5.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 14:37:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 14:37:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Feb 2007 14:37:56 -0000 Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 14:37:55 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erpik3+j11o@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <200702241315.42597.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.187 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 194.80.176.253 From: "the_keoan" <bread.sandwich@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Members who joined between Dec. 2006 and Feb. 2007 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=234483579; y=SJbGRS2BkAC_8T68ue-Pq3-n6Pdj-5liFzaYzhIAS80G9Lx3 X-Yahoo-Profile: the_keoan X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 26 Feb 2007 16:45:54 -0000 > When does a soul enter a new body? At conception, or birth, or during > pregnancy? The Third Trimester is usual. When the body is formed yet not fully there. Or, at least, that is when a Soulmark appears usually above the left eye. This identifies a person as being a person with a soul. > Does The Transcendent Reality spit out souls that are previously > transcended, or are these souls original creations? It is more like a soul aquires energy through its rebirths in the physical universe, when it finally transcends, that energy cannot transcend with it but it needs to go somewhere, therefore The Transcendent Reality creates two new souls to use the energy.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Mon Feb 26 09:47:43 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 90242 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 17:42:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 17:42:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.132) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 17:42:38 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 17:41:38 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 17:41:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 17:41:38 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:41:36 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <erv64g+21u2@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <ds6pg0+gj3b@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.132 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: Detectiveworld (LONG) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=YLz-HzpUpIWxMxhkqSRSmCmdJ4PWyuwwqcV2sU0cQoz7glj3VQ X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 This is the Detective World data, 'forwarded' --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@...> wrote: > > have given deep thought to 'Detectiveworld', based on the (Stratemeyer) Syndicate > concerns, and have reached the following conclusions: > > TwistTech (formerly Twist Technologies), the family firm dominated by SamTwist, Sr., > Sam Twist, Jr., and Sam Twist IV, has accelerated technology beyond that of Earth- > Prime, but the accumulations of patents specifically licensed to TwistTech has created > a sort of fluid monopoly on cutting edge technology. > > Longaeval individuals have emerged, starting with the Topher Triplets (actually > Brothers), with the following characteristics: > > 1.Longevity - longaeval individuals have physiological years stretched over more than > a chronological year. This trait usually appears between 15 and 18 or later, although > it can occur as early as four. The actual ratio can vary from 1:4 to 1:32. > > 2.Charismatic dominance - a longaeval individual can request nearly anything of > anyone and expect compliance. > > 3.Serendipitous Coherence - a longaeval individual can follow several apparently > unrelated threads and expect that all of them will tie together coherently. > > 4.Near Invulnerability - a longaeval individual is nearly impossible to kill (for an > exception, see Molly Jordan, wife of John Faraday). > > 5.Hair Color - longaeval siblings display a distinct contrast in contrasting hair color. > > These characteristics have guaranteed the fear of the US government, but its inability > to resist. Any governmental corruption is guarnateed to draw the attention of the > Longaeval Syndicate or League. > > Important Longaeval Individuals > Romulus, Rick, and `Ram' Topher > The Roberts Siblings (Ann and Rob, b. 1896, Ferdinanda `Ferdie' and `Flip', b. 1904) > The Randall Boys (Moe, b. 1910, Ned, b. 1911, M'liss, b. 1914, M'liss II b. 1926) > Hank & John Farraday (b. 1911 & 1912) > Dana Wren (b. 1914) > Dulcie & Lana Jane (b. 1915 & 1916) > The Pallisers (Homer b. 1941, Haley b. 1943, Hick (Richard) b. 1946, Honey 1948, > Hudson (f) b. 1950) > Dana Wren II (b. 1941) > Hank & John Farraday Jr. (b. 1941, 1942) > > The Twists are not longaeval. Common traits of longaevals are a conservative outlook > and increasing arrogance towards normal humans. There may also be a more liberal > outlook on sexual relationships between longaevals, which is not publically > acknowledged. > > > The eras of Detectiveworld are: > > 1900-1927: The Era of Adventurers. Longaeval individuals travelled the world, but > Twist Technologies was more important than detective works. > > 1927-1939: The Gilded Era. Detective work began to be the principal interest of > longaeval individuals. Thanks to Twist Technologies, the US suffered a much less > harsh depression than the rest of the world. The defection of M'liss (I) Randall to the > Nazis in 1938 marked the waning of this era. > > 1939-1945: The War Era. The US government recruited longaevals into the O.S.S. > > 1945-1959: A fallow period, in which the longaeval community lacked its previous > coherence. The only new Longaevals were the Palliser children. > > 1954: Sam Twist, Jr., becomes involved in Twist Technologies and triggers the Space > Age. The Space technology, however, is in the hands of TwistTech. > > 1959: The Argent Era. The sudden appearance of a new, second- generation `Dana > Wren' spurs the emergence or reemergence of longaeval individuals, stretching into > 1960. The original `Dana Wren' soon escaped Soviet captivity, where she had been > since 1944. > > 1970's: The Commercial Era. Longaeval individuals, who had previously limited their > commercial interests to book rights, now licensed their adventures to television > producers. Rumors of an affair between a Wren and a Faraday brother was a major > scandal. > > 1980's: The Dark Era. In 1980, the Longaeval Syndicate collapsed through internal > fighting. The second-generation longaevals who shared legacy names were tired of > the dominance of their elders and wanted to be acknowledged on their own merits. > Sam Twist III came into his own, but spent most of his time gallivanting about the > solar system with his ethnic buddies. Molly Jordan Faraday, wife of John Faraday, was > assassinated, launching the Faradays into darker cases (how much of the darkness > was due to John's depression affecting the world is a heated subject of debate). Only > the Twists, the Faradays, and the Wrens remained active; all other longaevals > refrained from public activity. > > 1990's: The Brazen Era. Sam Twist IV made TwistTech once again a progressive force. > > > [Creator's note: it is surprising how much of this history could be immediately > `borrowed' from the history of pulp/comics] >
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Mon Feb 26 14:01:02 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21573 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 22:01:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 22:01:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.111) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 22:01:01 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 22:00:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 22:00:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Feb 2007 22:00:46 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:00:46 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ervlae+3269@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <erv64g+21u2@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.111 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Detectiveworld (LONG) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=0l0Dc-B0Y-b7V0dyUF98lwehwYMq9xWx2u145CRRqZj2Lkzt-CsO X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell Are the Twists any relation to Oliver Twist? Are they the alt. versions of *here*'s Tom Swifts? What happened to Sam Twist III?
From wachevrier@hotmail.com Mon Feb 26 14:55:34 2007 Return-Path: <wachevrier@hotmail.com> X-Sender: wachevrier@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69814 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 22:55:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 22:55:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc3-s29.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.229) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 22:55:32 -0000 Received: from BAY109-W6 ([64.4.19.106]) by bay0-omc3-s29.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:55:10 -0800 Message-ID: <BAY109-W6988127CB3CAC5902B5CECD830@phx.gbl> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_1e5215d8-f269-4200-bd1f-67a995f19231_" To: <conculture@yahoogroups.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:55:10 +0000 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Return-Path: wachevrier@hotmail.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Feb 2007 22:55:10.0915 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B287930:01C759F9] X-Originating-IP: 65.54.246.229 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: wayne chevrier <wachevrier@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [conculture] Re: IB: Questions concerning Oregon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2550847; y=jZj31xkucSG2H12kmSS6P6wEyYCKYbO6_KROvjamuJ61f2qCqvCL7Q X-Yahoo-Profile: waynechevrier --_1e5215d8-f269-4200-bd1f-67a995f19231_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 kode_conlangs@yahoo.com nevesht:
 
--- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, wayne chevrier <wachevrier@...>
wrote:
>
>
> plikma@... nevesht:
>
>
>
> 1) Would it be correct to say that Oregon is everything from 42º
to52º 40' and west of the continental divide?
>
> 42 degrees to 54 40', but following the drainage basin for the
northern border

> 2) When did Oregon become independant?
>
> Always was, various fur companies from several countries(inc. FK,
France, Spain, NAL, Russia) had overlapping claims, an actual
government was formed when settlers arrived(first major group came
from Japan escaping the troubles ending with the Meiji Restoration
and Satsura Rebellion)

3) Did Lewis and Clark happen *there*? (Presumably the French
wouldhave used that route).
>
> Not into Oregon

4) When did Oregon become Ecotopic? 1950s?
>
> Environmental issues became important c. 1900 after a mine
leachate disaster in the Flathead(poisoned the Columbia fishery for
several seasons) combined with the aristocratic nature of the
Herusiya(importance of traditional fishing/hunting/gathering
rights). Ecotopic was added to the name of the country in the 1950's
as the term and associated philosophy developed.5) Is Oregon the
first Ecotopic naion in the world?
>
> It depends on your definition, but I think Cork may have used the
term earlier.
>
> . -- Wayne Chevrier

How much of a native Amerindian presence is there in Oregon? IIRC
the Columbia basin supported a large number of people, who were
still quite dense on the ground *here* when Lewis & Clark stopped
by. Did the native populations suffer from diseases *there* to the
extent that they did *here*, and were they able to recover their
numbers enough to be a factor in present-day Oregon?
 
The chiefs are part of the Herusiya, but the populations did crash. Land is still under traditional ownership for the most part, but most citizens of the indigenous nations are of mixed ancestry.

--Wayne Chevrier 





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From Montrei13@gmail.com Mon Feb 26 15:05:35 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82134 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2007 23:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Feb 2007 23:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO an-out-0708.google.com) (209.85.132.241) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 2007 23:05:35 -0000 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d17so1045204and for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:05:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Ca6IRyqsCXv3UjpBIVXfTZ7Wk/65vT566Fo8OkqKP5RnN0m1VqpatqljnVqUFwzIXA7I4xgM+OQkGiy53Xqz8UGmYVfRR35TicCjrAuq0jr7KqVDedQ/pvJ+/jZNjGiDWkjMiHIYtasuWypLPXUmPUxT/mbXztqGp3ImP+eAE+A= Received: by 10.114.103.1 with SMTP id a1mr879696wac.1172531129988; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.94.18 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:05:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7b9d11410702261505t242cd18ft9b453890fa43a0a0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:05:29 -0800 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <BAY109-W6988127CB3CAC5902B5CECD830@phx.gbl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <BAY109-W6988127CB3CAC5902B5CECD830@phx.gbl> X-Originating-IP: 209.85.132.241 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Questions concerning Oregon X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=TFv67_LNoftklXJov1au5bRHMcYOcoArJwiC-DahsOUWRRE4 X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 2/26/07, wayne chevrier <wachevrier@hotmail.com> wrote: > The chiefs are part of the Herusiya, but the populations did crash. Land is still under traditional ownership for the most part, but most citizens of the indigenous nations are of mixed ancestry. > > --Wayne Chevrier I would expect the results to be similar there as here in regard to disease, but that native cultures were able to better re-assert themselves than here. In Alta California, the Txumax (Chumash) were able to keep a better hold on their traditonal culture, and like Oregon, most would be of mixed ancestry rather than pure, 100% native.
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 26 16:55:31 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62750 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2007 00:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2007 00:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.69) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2007 00:55:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 59007 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Feb 2007 00:55:13 -0000 Message-ID: <20070227005513.59005.qmail@web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: vqp79W0VM1k82rNkLi3sBFX5IinjBfzt05.MFXRBw_W7YHLKFh32PsZ.IvA3lQ5BFs9vS6kmz_Cp8yMfmqo9lCxizeMnd63W_ZDVVG_MuuflSpqmlHoc_xHh7kcLNmGpv5rF0myL Received: from [68.88.138.76] by web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:55:13 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:55:13 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eruhsl+tj35@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: American Ice-Age survivors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=wGvbv9XIMwFZDYbHcGiJPvMo_cvT9eCu39gXg4hk-IraMNDOjXD53A X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Giant sloth is sooooo tempting. Perhaps the lion > could survive. > > But no Sabretooths. I repeat - NO SABRETOOTHS. :) > Actually, sabretooths and glyptodonts are the two which don't tempt me at all. I'm quite happy that those remain extinct. > > Arrgh! > > Peace friend. Calm your mind. > > > > > Geoff > > > > ===== > > > > One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity > > -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England > > > > ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Feb 26 17:56:43 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 73574 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2007 01:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2007 01:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52029.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.30) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2007 01:56:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 8801 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Feb 2007 01:56:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20070227015624.8799.qmail@web52029.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XECtrloVM1mYkTTuzB8UhE0PEn8rSzyissIZ8XzKRa9b7SUEZF82C9w3PE6L7IIuts4qJ9np6wdyaLK3mQIWkdgtC_YX.AhfdRbfJIEXrElfQBsCXF2.p0K1kqMjs7ds17RZ2QmriE7gtlqMn8TKtVesTuz8oWH1VVtuXZvGnLIP21K7a2lu Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52029.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:56:24 PST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:56:24 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <erpgvg+evnq@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.30 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: How do you create an IB account? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=y7D3drKNxVjgCjP1JL9QoYekRthD_nsJJZWROS_XlHblROzQ X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Colin Richardson <murukctr@bigpond.com> wrote: > I'm not clear in studying IB to what extent > *here* real persons can > validly by included *there*. Is there a rule on > persons still living > being included *there*, especially when they > are known to be present > *here* before the divergence point? We often end up with real persons (from *here*) ending up *there* as well. Sometimes they turn out quite different, sometimes they are similar. For example, we have a Richard Nixon in both trouser legs of Time, however the IB Nixon is a car salesman in Alta California -- never president of the USA. We also have an Albert Gore in both timelines. *There*, he is presently General Moderator of the NAL. Sometimes famous people from *here* aren't *there* at all. Wilbur and Orville Wright, for example, are famous *here* for having conducted the very first flights with powered airplanes. They are nowhere to be seen *there*, and the credit for the first aeroplane flight goes to one Alberto Santos Duval (*here*'s runner up, Alberto Santos Dumont). Sometimes the name changes between *here* and *there*, too. If you have some Papuan characters in mind, feel free to either expand on what you know about them, or feel free to make a composite character if you want to. Certainly, you are free to give these people different names. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 27 03:47:58 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24685 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2007 11:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2007 11:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.125) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2007 11:47:56 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2007 11:47:06 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2007 11:47:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2007 11:47:06 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:47:05 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <es15np+os8i@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.125 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: States in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=Y8M2LYuhoScqJG6b0piw3Bqv2XGZ1SCTqNPQLgqr97U72P-mN5tgqw X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones I've been dooing some reaserch into possible sites for possible states in American Megafauna. The possible locations in *here's* America would be limited by the climate. In North America for example, the Rocky Mountains, the Great American Desert and most of Arctic and Subarctic Canada (as well as Alaska) aren't going to become "civilised" (I use the term in its Victorian context in this post) until much later, perhaps with a "Great Game" equivalent, or an Amerind version of Russia appearing at some point. Expect most of the states to be east of the Mississippi, with some a hundred or so miles to the west, extending around the great lakes and the St Laurence, perhaps extending into Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. In South America, most of Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay and Argentina aren't going to be really exploitable by civilised peoples for quite some time, so most European colonisation in the Americas would probably occur around there. Expect states to emerge in or adjacent to the Andes, or costal Colombia and Venezuela. Central America is heavily forrested - although there were Mayan city- states around there *here* (and probably equivalents *there*), transport is going to be an issue. Expect Hellenistic/Phoeniecian-like city-states/colonies around there. The Caribbean is a diferent matter. The Greater Antilles (not so sure about the Bahamas) do have fairly abundent reasources, so whoever inhabits those areas there will be fairly well off. Expect more city- states around there, and significant trading with the mainland. Also, the actual location of important resources are going to be a factor, especially copper and tin (early on), and iron (a bit later). Both copper and tin occur in the Andes, since the Inca were a bronze- age culture. Iron too, probably. Mesoamerica is rather more limited when it comes to those resources, but iron and copper do occur in areas adjacent to it, so expect resource-mining colonies/settlements to emerge around those sites, along with trading-posts, with camel-trains and/or cargo-ships transfering supplies, as well as considerable trading with the Caribbean. In the rest of North America, the situation is somewhat diferent, due to the fact that the reasources, although fairly abundent, are rather scattered, so expect considerable trade in the civilised parts. Thoughts? (especially Geoff)
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Tue Feb 27 11:47:19 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 2726 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2007 19:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Feb 2007 19:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.31) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Feb 2007 19:47:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n29.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2007 19:46:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Feb 2007 19:46:54 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:46:54 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <es21re+8koe@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <es15np+os8i@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.31 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: States in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=R49iUvZ0wGTND1JCpgOnHuT5tjstctF1uNejxG2u5sFIulYuRZIz X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@...> wrote: >[snip] >Thoughts? (especially Geoff) I am afraid I don't know how relevant or responsive my reply here is, but; Be aware that, *here* in OTL, the division in what became the "east-of- the-Mississippi United States" into a slave-owning South and a "free" North, predated the settlement of European "whites" in that region.
From rfmilly@msn.com Tue Feb 27 19:53:12 2007 Return-Path: <rfmilly@msn.com> X-Sender: rfmilly@msn.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93426 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2007 03:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2007 03:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bay0-omc3-s18.bay0.hotmail.com) (65.54.246.218) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 03:47:35 -0000 Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.61.73]) by bay0-omc3-s18.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:47:29 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:47:29 -0800 Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV1EC134DD2656AC9C8F5FEAC810@phx.gbl> Received: from 71.115.178.98 by BAY102-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:47:24 +0000 X-Originating-Email: [rfmilly@msn.com] X-Sender: rfmilly@msn.com To: "conculture" <conculture@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:47:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:47:22 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2007 03:47:29.0190 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B329C60:01C75AEB] Return-Path: rfmilly@msn.com X-Originating-IP: 65.54.246.218 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Roger Mills" <rfmilly@msn.com> Subject: Re: IB: Papua/New Guinea X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=181787247; y=FDJP0rqh0KeVWQDvCfNswd36CQbTXCPVI-kBgzkgDVQNuw X-Yahoo-Profile: romiltz Colin Richardson wrote: > In IB Papua Tok Pisin would probably not exist - it was introduced by the Germans *here*... Admittedly I've been remiss in my duties w.r.t. Indonesia. The World Map you cite (on the frath.wiki) agrees with my old one. But since the Spanish held onto the Moluccas for a reasonable time (and fringes of NW PNG (Bird's Head and Geelvink Bay, and some of the west coast--caution, here be savages!!) there's likely to be either a Spanish-Malay based pidgin, or maybe just Ambonese Malay with a lot of Spanish words, possibly some from the southern PI as well. Whether that pidgin would have had any wider circulation is doubtful; I suspect the lingua-franca version of Malay never spread much beyond the Dutch-controlled areas *here*. So whatever pidgin develops in the remainder of PNG will depend on who grabbed what. Something I neglected to think about-- *here* the statelets of Ternate and Tidore (2 small islands off Halmahera) were powerful in the Moluccas long before Europeans got there-- as pirates, raiders, controllers of the first leg of the spice trade. Interestingly, they were some of the earliest converts to Islam (early 1400s IIRC). Yet their non-Austronesian languages have made almost no contribution to any of the Moluccan languages *here*, and probably wouldn't have *there* either-- the Spanish, like the Dutch, would have seen to it that they lost their influence. I don't know how Islam reached that little corner of Indonesia so early; perhaps through the southern PI? Anyhow, it might be intriguing if IB's Ternate and Tidore were also, somehow, isolated Islamic enclaves in the area. > I am curious as to any QSS impact on the status of the Bismarck islands (New Britain, New Ireland, Manus, Bougainville) and the Solomon Islands (all *here*). In the map referred to (http://ib.frath.net/w/images/0/08/WorldMap2001.png), these islands do not seem to be part of Papua, but are coloured as if part of Australasia - but I can find no reference to them in any Australasia-related article in IB. Any comments anyone? Same problem with the Japanese portion as shown on the map - Admiral Yamamoto Land. Ditto the Maluku, Mazahapit and Bornei-Philipinas enclaves indicated on the map I don't see any Mazapahit areas indicated in PNG; and I don't know who installed the two red dots indicating Bornei-Phil. or why :-))) Of course the Bird's Head and west coast are part of Maluku and have been since Spanish days. As to the other islands/areas you mention, I know not. > This would imply that the linguistic situation that prevailed in *here* Papua from the colonial impact (the adoption of Motu as an intertribal language for administration) would extend to the whole of the *there* territory - a totally different situation cf *here*, and one that would have modified the form of the pidginised Motu (Police or Hiri Motu). It could be, then, that each colonial area has its own lingua franca?? It might depend on how much traffic there is between them; it's likely one language or another might become predominant in trade at least, if not administration. I don't know the history of Tok Pisin, but didn't it originate mainly from sailors/traders in the China trade? then spread wherever Engl. ships, or others with polyglot crews, ventured?
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 27 19:54:31 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10220 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2007 03:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2007 03:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.70) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 03:49:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 83826 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Feb 2007 03:48:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: fIieO8cVM1mQ0cZ2smLS.Zn6BBnxO3oIiPMWDqKzblUw9YC1dYl.PFOD3b6hWVRcx8u4jw5_hlhcT03fWw7puQ.NMPlJldGtznsnZu6X8MJaHi8synMbcAvLbfdEQF52F5bv8.Gx Received: from [67.64.119.212] by web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:48:01 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:48:01 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070227005513.59005.qmail@web26712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <258659.83531.qm@web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: American Ice-Age survivors X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=JDRXfIxdoiDacEgJoqpWznJB3o7-87k7RJSKBhgq3JqX-Motoutk2g X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood As for the equines, I'm thinking of these three to survive: Equus scotti - seems to parallel the Old World wild horses that were domesticated. Equus conversidens - the information I have says this is a smaller equine that frequented the Mexico-Southern US area. Equus calobatus - one of the "stilt-legged horses" of the Americas. The information I have says that these were smaller and slenderer than regular horses, and suggests a parallel with the onager, kiang and/or kulan. Not all of these need be domesticable. We may want to factor in something like the zebra or kulan, that basically can't be tamed well. This decision was largely made by the fact that I can't find any information on E. idahoensis or E. frumanius. So there you go. ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 27 19:57:26 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 42431 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2007 03:51:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2007 03:51:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.70) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 03:51:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 79807 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Feb 2007 03:40:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: vtPtq8AVM1memKxausEcwl9DI6y6LG9h9UgB31s1ogvVomjJXiKovn260aJkvztVnA-- Received: from [67.64.119.212] by web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:40:34 GMT Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:40:34 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <es15np+os8i@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <72384.75851.qm@web26713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] States in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=p7hI4JvQfSwjFkINn35CuepiFdpuwA3YrQ4NoW4Lk4Dqq4qAjjzc9A X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > I've been dooing some reaserch into possible sites > for possible states > in American Megafauna. > I've been looking myself at possible cradles of civilisation- where would civilisation start, and why, and what would the geography say directly about its culture. > The possible locations in *here's* America would be > limited by the > climate. I concur. > In North America for example, the Rocky Mountains, > the Great American > Desert and most of Arctic and Subarctic Canada (as > well as Alaska) > aren't going to become "civilised" (I use the term > in its Victorian > context in this post) until much later, perhaps with > a "Great Game" > equivalent, or an Amerind version of Russia > appearing at some point. > Expect most of the states to be east of the > Mississippi, with some a > hundred or so miles to the west, extending around > the great lakes and > the St Laurence, perhaps extending into Nova Scotia > and New Brunswick. > I was thinking of all the great river-valley civilisations and expecting the Mississippi to produce something similar. But I expect the centre of civilisation might later shift towards the coast, paralleling the shift from Mesopotamia to Greece & Rome in the Old World *here. I wondered about the Columbia river (NW USA), and whether that area might develop its own cultural region. It might be a bit isolated, though- the other side of the Rockies and barred from much expansion north or south by climatic differences. The other great centre of civilisation in North America would probably be the Great Lakes area. > In South America, most of Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay > and Argentina > aren't going to be really exploitable by civilised > peoples for quite > some time, so most European colonisation in the > Americas would probably > occur around there. Expect states to emerge in or > adjacent to the > Andes, or costal Colombia and Venezuela. > What about the Parana/Rio de la Plata area in northern Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay? I don't know what the terrain forms are doing in that area, but ISTR that the jungle is giving way to grassland and the Chaco. > Central America is heavily forrested - although > there were Mayan city- > states around there *here* (and probably equivalents > *there*), > transport is going to be an issue. Expect > Hellenistic/Phoeniecian-like > city-states/colonies around there. You have dense jungle from the Yucatan southwards, becoming more desertified the further north into Mexico you go. But you also have the Rio Grande and a couple of other reasonable sized rivers. I agree with you that transport is a big deal in the heavily forested areas, but further north, you're in semidesert, or full-on desert. Again, unless they take to the seas, exporting their civilisation is going to be tough. > The Caribbean is a diferent matter. The Greater > Antilles (not so sure > about the Bahamas) do have fairly abundent > reasources, so whoever > inhabits those areas there will be fairly well off. > Expect more city- > states around there, and significant trading with > the mainland. Definitely. It was actually here that I pictured a Hellenistic/Phoenician-type trading culture taking off - small island polities that become, in essence, city-states, and a Phoenician-like seafaring culture making most of the New World's early advances in shipbuilding and navigation. > Also, the actual location of important resources are > going to be a > factor, especially copper and tin (early on), and > iron (a bit later). > > Both copper and tin occur in the Andes, since the > Inca were a bronze- > age culture. Iron too, probably. > > Mesoamerica is rather more limited when it comes to > those resources, > but iron and copper do occur in areas adjacent to > it, so expect > resource-mining colonies/settlements to emerge > around those sites, > along with trading-posts, with camel-trains and/or > cargo-ships > transfering supplies, as well as considerable > trading with the > Caribbean. > > In the rest of North America, the situation is > somewhat diferent, due > to the fact that the reasources, although fairly > abundent, are rather > scattered, so expect considerable trade in the > civilised parts. > Yes. I've been looking for some decent resource maps of the New World that show where the main strategic metals (Copper and especially Tin first, and Iron a little later, and after that other metals like lead, silver and gold) are concentrated, and not finding anything. > Thoughts? (especially Geoff) Good ideas. We seem to be thinking in parallel tracks. Geoff ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Tue Feb 27 22:39:28 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 95391 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2007 06:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2007 06:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 06:38:27 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 8609C14400C; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:32:29 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C4C14400D for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:32:25 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06766-03 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:32:23 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41DF14400C for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:32:22 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:32:28 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <BAY102-DAV1EC134DD2656AC9C8F5FEAC810@phx.gbl> In-Reply-To: <BAY102-DAV1EC134DD2656AC9C8F5FEAC810@phx.gbl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200702281932.29121.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Papua/New Guinea X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=rJkC8rmNOJcEzAVET9OwfbbW4GQZSSgNjzs7PFwBNBP8JR-frJ4KyDY2 X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir On Wednesday 28 February 2007 4:47 pm, Roger Mills wrote: > I don't know the history of Tok Pisin, but didn't it originate mainly > from sailors/traders in the China trade? then spread wherever Engl. > ships, or others with polyglot crews, ventured? > I don't have information on Tok Pisin, but my dictionary on Bislama says that it did originate from the China trade, most of the development happened on the Queensland plantations. It had little prestige until after WWII when greater mobility allowed it to expand as a vernacular language. Apparently what language will emerge in the area depends on who controls trade and education. - andrew.
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 28 01:01:26 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88082 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2007 09:01:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2007 09:01:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.116) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 09:01:26 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 09:00:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 09:00:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 09:00:58 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:00:57 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <es3gc9+ufrp@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <es15np+os8i@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.116 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: States in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=6I5qT2j7iHrBqhiam_TOjUNxI-z0Zm1Xp0r3Xh4ax-VZdyUATtDrpA X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones This message was sent to me by e-mail by Phil Eklund. It is relevent, and was probably sent to me instead of posting it here by accident, so I'll include it here. == The e-mail == I am working on a game on the origins of humanity and civilization, using ideas from American Megafauna, to be called "Origins". Some details on the forum at www.sierramadregames.com. I have the map and cards done, and hopefully soon a playtest copy. For resources, I mainly have potentially domesticable megafauna and plants. But some mineral resources as well, esp. silver in mesoamerica and the atacuma desert. As for tin in S. America, I am not sure about that. I disagree that the Antilles were a resource rich area, I consider them rather like spacely populated desert islands. Phil Eklund Sierra Madre Games --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > I've been dooing some reaserch into possible sites for possible states > in American Megafauna. > > The possible locations in *here's* America would be limited by the > climate. > > In North America for example, the Rocky Mountains, the Great American > Desert and most of Arctic and Subarctic Canada (as well as Alaska) > aren't going to become "civilised" (I use the term in its Victorian > context in this post) until much later, perhaps with a "Great Game" > equivalent, or an Amerind version of Russia appearing at some point. > Expect most of the states to be east of the Mississippi, with some a > hundred or so miles to the west, extending around the great lakes and > the St Laurence, perhaps extending into Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. > > In South America, most of Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay and Argentina > aren't going to be really exploitable by civilised peoples for quite > some time, so most European colonisation in the Americas would probably > occur around there. Expect states to emerge in or adjacent to the > Andes, or costal Colombia and Venezuela. > > Central America is heavily forrested - although there were Mayan city- > states around there *here* (and probably equivalents *there*), > transport is going to be an issue. Expect Hellenistic/Phoeniecian-like > city-states/colonies around there. > > The Caribbean is a diferent matter. The Greater Antilles (not so sure > about the Bahamas) do have fairly abundent reasources, so whoever > inhabits those areas there will be fairly well off. Expect more city- > states around there, and significant trading with the mainland. > > Also, the actual location of important resources are going to be a > factor, especially copper and tin (early on), and iron (a bit later). > > Both copper and tin occur in the Andes, since the Inca were a bronze- > age culture. Iron too, probably. > > Mesoamerica is rather more limited when it comes to those resources, > but iron and copper do occur in areas adjacent to it, so expect > resource-mining colonies/settlements to emerge around those sites, > along with trading-posts, with camel-trains and/or cargo-ships > transfering supplies, as well as considerable trading with the > Caribbean. > > In the rest of North America, the situation is somewhat diferent, due > to the fact that the reasources, although fairly abundent, are rather > scattered, so expect considerable trade in the civilised parts. > > Thoughts? (especially Geoff) >
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 28 01:04:35 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29762 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2007 09:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2007 09:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 09:04:35 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 09:03:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 09:03:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 09:03:17 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:03:17 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <es3ggl+gde5@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <es21re+8koe@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: States in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=YK1Q5EO6QrM8Bwe-RjiUR-Xs_baWROgmz2Ww2slP9TO3l8ut0vrD0Q X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@...> wrote: > > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@> > wrote: > >[snip] > >Thoughts? (especially Geoff) > > I am afraid I don't know how relevant or responsive my reply here is, > but; > Be aware that, *here* in OTL, the division in what became the "east- of- > the-Mississippi United States" into a slave-owning South and a "free" > North, predated the settlement of European "whites" in that region. > Most interesting. Thanks for that. Therefore, perhaps the southeastern North America cultures will have a plantation-like agriculture system, with slave labour. This will probably make them quite rich.
From murukctr@bigpond.com Wed Feb 28 10:16:58 2007 Return-Path: <murukctr@bigpond.com> Received: (qmail 90707 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2007 18:10:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2007 18:10:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28b.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.30) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 18:10:07 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 18:10:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 18:10:02 -0000 X-Sender: murukctr@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72130 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2007 14:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Feb 2007 14:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Feb 2007 14:45:36 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 14:44:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 14:44:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Feb 2007 14:44:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:44:52 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <es44h5+4kv1@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <BAY102-DAV1EC134DD2656AC9C8F5FEAC810@phx.gbl> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.167 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 124.183.72.143 From: "Colin Richardson" <murukctr@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: IB: Papua/New Guinea X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299681896; y=SaO9YAZruyy-llmRQhhtB_iuTKdmMFx_i19ARBj6icYUY9e_4VyM0ugSGg X-Yahoo-Profile: colum_macardrigh X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 28 Feb 2007 18:10:01 -0000 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Mills" <rfmilly@...> wrote: > > Colin Richardson wrote: > > > In IB Papua Tok Pisin would > probably not exist - it was introduced by the Germans *here*... > > So whatever pidgin develops in the > remainder of PNG will depend on who grabbed what. > > I am curious as to any QSS impact on the status of the Bismarck > islands (New Britain, New Ireland, Manus, Bougainville) and the > Solomon Islands (all *here*). In the map referred to > (http://ib.frath.net/w/images/0/08/WorldMap2001.png), these islands do > not seem to be part of Papua, but are coloured as if part of > Australasia - but I can find no reference to them in any > Australasia-related article in IB. Any comments anyone? Same problem > with the Japanese portion as shown on the map - Admiral Yamamoto Land. > Ditto the Maluku, Mazahapit and Bornei-Philipinas enclaves indicated > on the map > > I don't see any Mazapahit areas indicated in PNG; and I don't know who > installed the two red dots indicating Bornei-Phil. or why :-))) Of course > the Bird's Head and west coast are part of Maluku and have been since > Spanish days. As to the other islands/areas you mention, I know not. In http://ib.frath.net/w/World_map there is a blue dot at the westernmost point of the Bird's Head indicating Mazapahit. I did some further searches and reading in IBWiki, and it seems suggestions have been made (http://ib.frath.net/w/Talk:World_map) that China had colonized the North (?NW) coast of New Guinea before the Australasians; after the Great Oriental War some of this was taken over by members of the Austronesian League - Maluku the westernmost part, Japan the Admiral Yamamoto Land, and Mazapahit and Bornei-Philipinas, some cities... This would suggest a fairly recent impact for these nations, and the impact of the Chinese in NW New Guinea may not have penetrated far into Papua - esp given the mountainous geography! > I don't know the history of Tok Pisin, but didn't it originate mainly from > sailors/traders in the China trade? then spread wherever Engl. ships, or > others with polyglot crews, ventured? > Not according to works I have read. A useful summary is in Wikipedia under Tok Pisin article. Pidgins have developed anywhere there is a need for simple communication between two language groups, esp for trade. The English-Chinese pidgin was simply one of the earlier ones. A Portuguese pidgin has influence many others - sailors would seem to spread common phrases or words around. But most developed where they were, and depending on the dominant foreign language. There is no evidence I have seen in *here* PNG that there is any traceable Chinese influence in Tok Pisin. There is German influence, and local languages, besides English, but it was already developing before the Germans were removed. Some suggest that *here* Tok Pisin, Solomons Pijin, and Vanuatu Bislama developed from the "blackbirder" situation in Queensland, and was taken back to the islands by returning labourers. For Solomons and Vanuatu, this may well be. But PNG was not a major source of Blackbirded labourers; the Germans would not have looked lightly on Australians barging into their waters, and inveigling their people onto ships! And while Queensland/Britain controlled Papua (sth), there is no evidence that any "kanaka" pidgin impacted there - rather "Police Motu" was the norm. Since *there* the German influence is nil, and their early (*here*) stronghold New Britain is Australasian anyway, it is an interesting point as to whether Pidgin/Pisin penetrated significantly into Papua. I take the concept from *here* that the 1st Lt-Governor, Sir William MacGregor (A Scot! - fits with *there* Kingsland!!) found an existing pidgin language, a simplified form of the tribal language Motu, and adopted it, with modifications, as the intertribal language for Papua, to be used for administration, especially the new locally recruited police (hence the old name Police Motu). *There*, the same would apply, but would have a much larger influence, not being countered by a parallel or opposing influence from the northern side. *Here*, Hiri Motu has had at first a parallel development with Tok Pisin (NG Pidgin), and then a decline as the more populous Pisin-speaking areas predominated. But initially Hiri (Police) Motu spread to almost all the Australian territory of Papua, from Daru to Popondetta and Samarai. I grew up in that environment, and learned Hiri Motu as a child - and continued to study it. Today, Hiri Motu is still around, still official, but losing ground to Pidgin. *There*, I propose a Kingsland admin under Sir William MacGregor (1883-?), in which with no German presence, and a much freer hand, the influence of Hiri Motu continued to spread and develop, becoming a major unifying factor in Papua, especially after Independence in 1949. I am working on translating the countries of IB-world into Motu, not just a transcription, and would like to develop a history where this would be a strong feature. MacGregor is followed by another Scot, Sir Hubert Murray who expands the same. The influence of Motu (already used in tribal trading - the Hiri - to the Gulf region of Papua (*here* and *there*), accelerates development as it never did *here*. With hundred of tribes and language groups in Papua, such is necessary. From there I foresee a structure of government which takes into account that in most of Papua (*here* PNG), tribal government is by a council of elders, by concensus ("the Melanesian Way" so often referred to in PNG *here*), not an authoritarian chief system as in much of Polynesia and Fiji (*here*). Papua (independent) would have a parliament elected by popular vote but with candidates likely to be voted on tribal lines, and a regional elders house of policy and review. Still working on the concepts. Contact with the putative Chinese NW would have been minimal for long - perhaps it could be that the beginnings of contact were a triggering factor for Australasia's war with China? Or perhaps China was planning expansion into Papua - perhaps did occupy some parts as part of the Great Oriental War? Austronesian participation in expelling them from the island might then give a rational for Japan and the others receiving parts of the former Chinese territory... Input would be welcome!
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Thu Mar 01 19:56:36 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44395 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2007 03:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2007 03:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.164) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2007 03:56:35 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2007 03:56:35 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2007 03:56:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2007 03:56:35 -0000 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 03:56:33 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <es879h+adr2@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.164 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Mostly FIU News: Feb. 16, 25-28, Mar. 1 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=8TeoGt9QebRQ7PjOkzw75YrMhKBVZhYNkDoPo3NKeWmroXPCeg X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 16 (FIU) LAOJINSHAN CITY, Central Zone of Jinguo - Against the protests of the two flanking zones of Jinguo, the leaders of the city officially recognized Assemblyman Xian as Emperor. This recognition has restored the Imperial status in which Jinguo existed prior to its Republican phase. 25 (FIU) LONG CITY, Southern Zone of Jinguo After consultation with the External Imperial Consuls, more colloquially Emperors of the Purepacha and Mexica, the Tetrarchy who currently govern the Southern Zone have consented to the prospect of a new Emperor and new Empire. There remain, however, concerns about the agedness and heirlessness of the new Emperor. 26 (FIU) ROMA, Gli Estati Papali - Pope Damasus III has elevated his secretary Jurcevic to the cardinalate. This is an unprecedented honor for a Papal secretary during his secretariat. 27 (FIU) ALEXANDRIA, Kingdom of Egypt - In an astonishing feat of diplomacy, through numerous blandishments, the Persian Empire has agreed to suspend it proliferation of fissile weapons. 28 (Merfolk World) The merfolk grew angry at the captain's refusal and damaged the ship until it sank. As the Sea Whisperers grew frenzied by the massacred sailors, the merfolk seized Ákos, son of Iszák, and drowned him. They spared only three sailors on a small craft and told these three to take this warning back to the mainland: if a human offend the merfolk, to them shall they be delivered for justice. MARCH 1 (FIU) Kingdom of the Tamils, SOUTHERN INDIA "But will it work?" asked Hetuhamy. "That Indian Emperor, they say he has this genius boy who advises him. Some even say that the boy is an avatar." "That's treasonous speech, my friend," Arawinda said. "The boy may be smart, but he is still only a boy. The advantage in a prolonged war belongs to defendants. The invaders cannot know the terrain equally well." "I suppose so." "All we have to do is deliver the package. We don't need to know where in the south it came from, or how it works. And when it works, both Tamils and Burmans will be free of the Indian menace."
From murukctr@bigpond.com Fri Mar 02 08:25:24 2007 Return-Path: <murukctr@bigpond.com> Received: (qmail 63023 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2007 15:32:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2007 15:32:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.33) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2007 15:32:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n30.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2007 15:32:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Mar 2007 15:32:03 -0000 X-Sender: murukctr@bigpond.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88462 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2007 07:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Mar 2007 07:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.120) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2007 07:45:59 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n15.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2007 07:45:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2007 07:45:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2007 07:45:36 -0000 Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 07:45:35 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <es60av+kk1i@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.120 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 124.183.72.143 From: "Colin Richardson" <murukctr@bigpond.com> Subject: Ethiopia and Jews X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=299681896; y=5ID0geOfsd4P4MqgEH6e0N-83L4sGVt1HfpCcvEQhb58t14bTPjhQfkt_Q X-Yahoo-Profile: colum_macardrigh X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 02 Mar 2007 15:32:03 -0000 I'm a newbie here, and have just been reading the Talk on Ethiopia in IB. Seems a lot of question (though back in 2005) on the origin of the Jewish issue in Ethiopia. It might be relevant to note *here* that until the 4th Century, the Axumite/Ethiopic kingdom was a Jewish state (in religious terms - probably not ethnic). Ethiopian tradition has it that the monarchy was descended from a putative son of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba... whom they claim ruled both Ethiopia/Axum and Yemen. This son, said to be Menelik I, supposedly brought Judaism to Ethiopia. All that be as it may, historically Ethiopia was a Jewish state at the time of Christ. King Ezana in the 4th century AD declared the nation to be Christian. In the 6th century, a Queen Yuditi (Judith) tried to turn Ethiopia back to Judaism - unsuccessfully, and eventually I believe she was deposed. The "Falashas" evacuated to Israel some 30 years ago are believed to be descendants of Jewish Ethiopians who resisted the pressure to convert. Incidentally, the persecution that triggered the evacuation was not imperial, but under the communist Derg that replaced it. Perhaps some of this might be adapted into *there* if it helps! Colin
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Fri Mar 02 15:49:27 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 33887 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2007 23:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Mar 2007 23:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2007 23:32:33 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 2267614400A; Sat, 3 Mar 2007 12:32:28 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28DF144010 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 3 Mar 2007 12:32:24 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07453-01 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 3 Mar 2007 12:32:22 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CCCC14400A for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sat, 3 Mar 2007 12:32:21 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 12:32:11 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200703031232.12166.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=Gm3kbKT7UNMK5spU3x2x4LJ7DNNrSz00Hyxjahu7Uw87STGS44T4obXm X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir I'm not sure if the Helvetians were up to their old tricks -- maybe they were looking for something ressembling edible food for lunch: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2025383,00.html :) - andrew.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Fri Mar 02 17:21:32 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11675 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2007 00:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Mar 2007 00:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52021.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.253) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 2007 00:20:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 15019 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Mar 2007 00:20:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20070303002000.14935.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 59zzlMkVM1k4mPoH7A_igmgcJKqSV2fUmmM7.5VS.ZDOV29aPILnpSe7HHrxFdH7lN91ISxP5lSIU5nFeO5iU_7173zQMTC3H1KsJp_kIvXeFofAJPnVPl2BXn3bZHIIvQxdXJUtv9qJzpYQW6xvYyEv_xAgiob.3G8p03FZ7COvTrIIaKY0wVQmWRP4XEpy Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52021.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:20:00 PST Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <200703031232.12166.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.253 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=-GGaetH3RwRlt2sTiScppLKozrH6xqdzxmnSJYGgzJVjnA-Z X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> wrote: > I'm not sure if the Helvetians were up to their > old tricks -- maybe they > were looking for something ressembling edible > food for lunch: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2025383,00.html You've got to hand it to these little countries! "Invaded? Really? Well, no worries! I'm sure it was all just a misunderstanding! No harm done, eh? Whatwhat?" Padraic > > :) > > - andrew. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new > email design. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/RF7qlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From hobbit@griffler.co.nz Sat Mar 03 16:57:53 2007 Return-Path: <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Sender: hobbit@griffler.co.nz X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 78338 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2007 00:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2007 00:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.griffler.co.nz) (202.49.187.35) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2007 00:57:52 -0000 Received: by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 449E6144012; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:57:08 +1300 (NZDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.4 (2006-07-26) on fluffy X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_NJABL_DUL,RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=3.1.4 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D828C144013 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:57:05 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from mail.griffler.co.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (fluffy [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26669-01 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:57:03 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from [10.0.1.45] (60-234-137-193.bitstream.orcon.net.nz [60.234.137.193]) by mail.griffler.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9750144012 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:57:02 +1300 (NZDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 13:56:58 +1300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <20070303002000.14935.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20070303002000.14935.qmail@web52021.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200703041356.58752.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at griffler.co.nz X-Originating-IP: 202.49.187.35 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=65630474; y=StdBITz9pPLQscbH-PI6On1AQjvDxsnTFPlI0r3_7tZcIjuF24VlGzEb X-Yahoo-Profile: andrew_fferreir On Saturday 03 March 2007 1:20 pm, Padraic Brown wrote: > --- andrew <hobbit@griffler.co.nz> wrote: > > I'm not sure if the Helvetians were up to their > > old tricks -- maybe they > > were looking for something ressembling edible > > food for lunch: > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2025383,00.html > > You've got to hand it to these little countries! > "Invaded? Really? Well, no worries! I'm sure it > was all just a misunderstanding! No harm done, > eh? Whatwhat?" > I think it's a case of "Hey mister, our ball landed in your backyard...." - andrew.
From cinga@gmx.net Mon Mar 05 04:24:18 2007 Return-Path: <cinga@gmx.net> X-Sender: cinga@gmx.net X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 7306 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2007 12:24:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2007 12:24:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.218) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2007 12:24:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n26.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2007 12:23:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2007 12:23:52 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 12:23:50 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <esh24m+e7t@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <200703041356.58752.hobbit@griffler.co.nz> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.218 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 129.132.63.4 From: "Christian Thalmann" <cinga@gmx.net> Subject: Re: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=78467183; y=BBcyUGV7EWotLoyXIrd8EG4O2EBWc9UYaic4G1qiDI3YXg X-Yahoo-Profile: obrenai --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, andrew <hobbit@...> wrote: > I think it's a case of "Hey mister, our ball landed in your > backyard...." To which the all-American response would be a few shotgun blasts. Does Liechtenstein exist in Ill Bethisad? -- Christian Thalmann
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Mon Mar 05 11:17:29 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 68381 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2007 19:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Mar 2007 19:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2007 19:17:28 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2007 19:16:46 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Mar 2007 19:16:46 -0000 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 19:16:46 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eshqau+t8hl@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <esh24m+e7t@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.216 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=jnyQX5CAbOHBS8RSCWu866TbcSKpJmjgd3SV3zrbmGoKt4QJ X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Christian Thalmann" <cinga@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, andrew <hobbit@> wrote: > > > I think it's a case of "Hey mister, our ball landed in your > > backyard...." > > To which the all-American response would be a few shotgun blasts. > > Does Liechtenstein exist in Ill Bethisad? > > > -- Christian Thalmann > Quite possibly...a bellicose little nation that has more arms per-capita than France has cheeses....
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Mar 05 17:23:45 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 79849 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2007 01:23:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2007 01:23:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52016.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.248) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2007 01:23:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 62895 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2007 01:23:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20070306012339.62893.qmail@web52016.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: WnmPipYVM1mbi10QqbmgGssfaAbLAld40Oea5392sniyXkAMX9i8_l.O9U.stQauZe7SqLpOH1iN4giNVJ5SVbiwFNDClsja5rut77PipCOXxmduuaAKZoCMsim0BjlD_55fuTDI4uz.SDshuGZFEEA7a85bEYzgvf0ZYIC1nKoQVMfaRJfyHA-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52016.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:23:38 PST Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 17:23:38 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eshqau+t8hl@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=rEwbYo7THIgFNCzzlmOa_ppfhxExtjvuZalj9iuiQTH39FaM X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Christian > Thalmann" <cinga@...> wrote: > > > Does Liechtenstein exist in Ill Bethisad? > > > > -- Christian Thalmann > > > Quite possibly...a bellicose little nation that > has more arms > per-capita than France has cheeses.... Actually, there is no Lichtenstein in IB. I'm pretty sure it has been discussed, too. Padraic. Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Tue Mar 06 03:07:41 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11250 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2007 11:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2007 11:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.69) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2007 11:07:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 47079 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2007 11:07:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KTBuif8VM1lY393MpH2cgxgvspjPxh2Yr09htHy8IsKdntTxlQP2uyC4WJI3d1KetxFeaf_RFDVg6NQLL_AlIm7gEAgADTzpAhKp386bggg5JowdOyznfZgW1zSJHif1jPovufI.IHYZsn2g.t3eH8U9CTYk3_1hH.657eiaYqxeMSheBEB8s.EBXNpO_X6N Received: from [65.64.201.207] by web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:07:19 GMT Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 11:07:19 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070306012339.62893.qmail@web52016.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <957137.42215.qm@web26706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.69 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=Mgf1jaVmqJEDjhxcUwraw-Ix0u77EHiryZSHuLE5f7Y4FvTVcwmo7A X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood One of the amusing things for me is that in Li Alam, the Republic of Helvetica is one of the main sources of mercenary soldiers: No Papal edict *there* forbidding the Swiss to export mercenaries. It makes the whole thing kind of... inevitable. Geoff --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Christian > > Thalmann" <cinga@...> wrote: > > > > > Does Liechtenstein exist in Ill Bethisad? > > > > > > -- Christian Thalmann > > > > > Quite possibly...a bellicose little nation that > > has more arms > > per-capita than France has cheeses.... > > Actually, there is no Lichtenstein in IB. I'm > pretty sure it has been discussed, too. > > Padraic. > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; > tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . > ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From abrigon@gci.net Tue Mar 06 08:27:21 2007 Return-Path: <abrigon@gci.net> X-Sender: abrigon@gci.net X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59326 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2007 16:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2007 16:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO msgmmp-1.gci.net) (209.165.130.11) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2007 16:27:15 -0000 Received: from riana ([24.237.154.221]) by msgmmp-1.gci.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-3.03 (built Jun 27 2005)) with SMTP id <0JEH00DF5PJ0A550@msgmmp-1.gci.net> for conculture@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 07:23:26 -0900 (AKST) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 07:24:48 -0900 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-id: <002d01c7600b$fca188e0$a2d5fea9@riana> Organization: Raven Grafix MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <1173195036.910.86571.m20@yahoogroups.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.165.130.11 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Abrigon Gusiq <abrigon@gci.net> Subject: Re: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=256589137; y=QQ8IrP1tijQ3C4soUakjwvlYroX8jbGJ9uaNpEHxB6DzQCli X-Yahoo-Profile: abrigon66 The Helvetians just jumped the gun.. As long as the Prince of Leichetenstein has a male heir, they are seperate from Helvetians, but no heir, then the Principality becomes part of the Confederation. Switzerland is really a Confederation of States, much like the LATER United States of America. Mike
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Mar 06 15:56:58 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18787 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2007 23:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Mar 2007 23:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52020.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.252) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2007 23:56:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 18001 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2007 23:56:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20070306235644.17999.qmail@web52020.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jpzQlx4VM1lctjgL9CGV5_n6m9pVRMbYscwlyCoNV_qSxn5wO_vsrvsgR5jU2fMN9NR1HCTN5YKb4UpaVCJo3QI480GhNeeUVoVoxyxmifNObVHyFE7uU2B4kp3IW95SRNLdfX.d_VmhXiwQOpqROvqQorDcF_yLPXlsEifep.FZOri42T60PZV2tkJKesCu Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52020.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:56:44 PST Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:56:44 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eri0he+2e5m@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=_Pk6Lc2wMRLLJUzkKp3ZR8V-xYImYS0SN2xIfbySipERSFPO X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@...> > > wrote: > > > > > "Future Evolution: An Illuminated History > of > > > Life to Come" by Peter > > > Ward. > > > It's an serious examination of future > avenues > > > of evolution in a human- > > > dominated environment. > > > > I think I have this book somewhere, though I > > can't find it at the mo. If it's the one I'm > > thinking of, it really is a great resource. > Lots > > of good pictures and descriptions of possible > > future beasties. > > > > > On that note, I have a couple of polycosmoi > > > (polycosmo w/omega) in > > > mind: > > > 1) where dwell truly Aquatic Apes (would > there > > > extra adaptations?) > > > > I would expect so! I think it is now > reasonably > > certain that whales and other aquatic mammals > > evolved from land animals. It would make very > > little sense for an aquatic ape to persist in > > being hairy and living in trees, for example! > > The crucial question here is the availability > of suitable marshy > coasts near Earth-Prime's cradle of humanity. I > was imagining a > process which ends in more realistic merfolk > via half-aquatic, swamp-dwelling hominins. I suppose you could posit a wetter Rift Valley; not so wet that it's a bay, but low and marshy. How acquatic are these merfolk supposed to be? > > > 2) where the Nile empties into the Qattara > > > (does it ever reach the sea?) > > > > I think the Qattara is too deep at ~130m > below > > sea level. The Wikipedia article mentions a > plan > > to pipe seawater into the Q from the Med. The > > project would create a lake some 90m deep > that > > would evaporate faster than new water is > allowed > > in. I'm sure this project would alter the > local > > ecosystem; but it might be an interesting > project > > for IB's Egypt to undertake rather than > flooding > > the area above Aswan. > > > I'm familiar with the pipeline. FIU's Kingdom > of Egypt might attempt > it. But my idea is that since Egypt was one of > the key civilizations > of the ancient world, and the Nile was the > lifeline, diverting the > Nile would be a very big rock in the time > stream. I initially thought > of "No Nile World", but couldn't figure out how > I could accomplish this. If the Nile flowed east from its sources in stead of north... > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios > > asteros; tamenio > > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem > > emduriase! > > --Pomperios Perfurios. > Which conlang is this? A Sabine-influenced one? It's a noncelang. Has the sound and feel of an old Italic language but is not based on any. It translates as "Friends, Marusians, countrymen..." as I recall. In a related language, one Porfius Pomferius wrote, in his "Pe Salacandam", "Querto tatam abominos ec didos questundos." Either that, or it is the same language, but is infected by a QU- dialect, as "Perto" and "pestundos" would be expected, given the title of "Pe Salacandam". I do have a couple fragments of a Latin-like language that has some of the sound characteristics of Oscan / Umbrian: Pampan bos flamenes, oullaffer sacrifacefest, eafta pricuso fahtud bos: pater nustre piis in ceilu siest macreter tefo onumen ficater tefa bolontion tisupe ceilupe pane nuftro mahtu fousie douiad colfas naftras perficad poffo colfas oullaferom perfecemes iuiuseconoi ne feressnes de sufaper nes lifiriad. This in about 1998 or thereabouts. The language is from the World. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Wed Mar 07 07:33:38 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 1422 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2007 15:33:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2007 15:33:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.183) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2007 15:33:37 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2007 15:32:50 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2007 15:32:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Mar 2007 15:32:50 -0000 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:32:50 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <esmlv2+mt1i@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070306012339.62893.qmail@web52016.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=5KI0RMNhFxPbOms9imR4-jHlxTQGU0oysBU2mdnATiMyjLku X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Christian > > Thalmann" <cinga@> wrote: > > > > > Does Liechtenstein exist in Ill Bethisad? > > > > > > -- Christian Thalmann > > > > > Quite possibly...a bellicose little nation that > > has more arms > > per-capita than France has cheeses.... > > Actually, there is no Lichtenstein in IB. I'm > pretty sure it has been discussed, too. A breakaway republic? Maybe? ;) (I'm kidding...I dont' want to redraw the maps...)
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Mar 07 08:22:56 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24654 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2007 16:22:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Mar 2007 16:22:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52020.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.252) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2007 16:22:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 27081 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2007 16:21:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20070307162146.27078.qmail@web52020.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: yiLrgF4VM1nYC.gDVGu55bCAuUbvyTcerFwxB3J20x3_80ogAmq.6bOBvjBxRyVFGb90sB6J111hOn.jrqB_V6xtKoW0G7DltbKFUnxWiDylKW9VoTgslOwNJUx5idsj4Yelb2NROCxmYgPVBtCo Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52020.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:21:46 PST Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 08:21:46 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <esmlv2+mt1i@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=7TuWOszl4dHy6bb5YQ9hD28_th4G3D4MOf9R7KLLl5xY09jk X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > > > --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > "Christian > > > Thalmann" <cinga@> wrote: > > > > > > > Does Liechtenstein exist in Ill Bethisad? > > > > > > > > -- Christian Thalmann > > > > > > > Quite possibly...a bellicose little nation > that > > > has more arms > > > per-capita than France has cheeses.... > > > > Actually, there is no Lichtenstein in IB. I'm > > pretty sure it has been discussed, too. > > A breakaway republic? Maybe? ;) (I'm > kidding...I dont' want to > redraw the maps...) Too many republics as is mumblemumblemumble...
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Wed Mar 07 16:25:53 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 72148 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 00:25:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2007 00:25:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.56) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 00:25:52 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 00:25:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 00:25:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:25:19 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <esnl5f+4lon@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosmic News: Mar. 2-6 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=NlqRVoBbFfsk4HMmvd8zkWdsfsLj3CKWgFGW1qaSnidjblYbFw X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 2 (Earth-Tasmanian Devil) Pranvera led the Healer and Canida away from the maternity ward before the enclosed mother had finished nursing the victorious offspring and set upon devouring the ones who had failed. "Now you see what those of us who care about the survival of the race face,' Pranvera said. "Just before you arrived, this hospice was the field of battle. We have weathered many wars and many diseases, but this one will destroy us." "I would not be here were it not a critical point," the Healer said, "I can perceive the genetic paucity in your species. That increased the number and severity of epidemics. Each time large numbers of the population died, the capacity for infection increased. But I may be able to change that into an advantage. May I see a representative patient?" "No." "What? Why?" 3 (Detective World) Alice Beth Royal and Jane Forgill faced the swarthy stranger who had just assured them that he had the answer to the mysterious standoff among the world's youthful detectives. He was a mulatto, with bad teeth and horny palms, but his eyes belied his otherwise hardscrabble life. "What I am about to say, your mystery friends, they will not accept it." "Then it's not true," Forgill confidently stated. "It is true. Your friends cannot perceive it, because they are fish in water. You, on the other hand, are more ordinary." "And in what way are we so ordinary?" Royal demanded. Week 10 (Mar. 4-10) 4 (Magnoverse) As the Duc Diminutive flew into the sky with his comet net, he wondered what would happen to his new friends, the Fox and the Aeronaut. He hoped the Aeronaut would survive his desert ordeal. Soon, however, his thoughts drifted towards his home asteroid and his beloved Flower. How he would greet her when he finally returned! 5 (HHW-2) Melisande, the plainish girl assistant to Iwarssohn, the great white governor, answered Popopoyoll, the strange, short, darkish doctor: "The Gwenfrewi whom I met remained here for a while. Then her aunt Ayawsiwall, not the one who arrived with you, stormed into the camp. My Lothilde released my Gwenfrewi to my Ayawsiwall and they left. I presume they returned safely to their world. Since my Ayawsiwall succeeded in retrieved her niece, I would guess that my Ayawsiwall never recruited your counterpart, Popopoyoll, to help her." Popoyoll said, "That makes things clearer, even if it hurts my head. But since your Ayawsiwall has rescued her niece, there`s no need for me to here. On top of that, my Ayawsiwall has agreed with your Iwarssohn to sell out your Cambro-Mesican Empire in exchange for handheld transporter technology." 6 (HHW-1) "I am confounded," said Iwarssohn. "Gwenfrewi, you claim to know this stranger?" "A version of him. Back home, in the Cambro-Mesica Empire, Tilmassin was in my class. He was a friend of mine." "We became more than that," Tilmassin said. Gwenfrewi grimaced and flinched. "After you came back - will come back? - to Llan Denosti, you will spend time with me and transmit the ape-disease. Then, after you abandon my faithful love, you will become a gum-chewer. Then the epidemic will start and the empire will stagger. I represent the last hope of the Empire, which sent me back to kill the germ of this disaster." "I will not allow you to kill her," said Iwarssohn. "You will find a different solution."
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Wed Mar 07 16:38:24 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 26219 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 00:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2007 00:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.128) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 00:38:23 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 00:38:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 00:38:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 00:38:20 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:38:19 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <esnltr+q41r@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070306235644.17999.qmail@web52020.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.128 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=-lOJT-keBQZnP_MVcQFJeTCT3EojxL9yzvObKiQd2HGSy0Be2g X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@...> > wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > Brown <elemtilas@> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > "Future Evolution: An Illuminated History > > of > > > > Life to Come" by Peter > > > > Ward. > > > > It's an serious examination of future > > avenues > > > > of evolution in a human- > > > > dominated environment. > > > > > > I think I have this book somewhere, though I > > > can't find it at the mo. If it's the one I'm > > > thinking of, it really is a great resource. > > Lots > > > of good pictures and descriptions of possible > > > future beasties. > > > > > > > On that note, I have a couple of polycosmoi > > > > (polycosmo w/omega) in > > > > mind: > > > > 1) where dwell truly Aquatic Apes (would > > there > > > > extra adaptations?) > > > > > > I would expect so! I think it is now > > reasonably > > > certain that whales and other aquatic mammals > > > evolved from land animals. It would make very > > > little sense for an aquatic ape to persist in > > > being hairy and living in trees, for example! > > > > The crucial question here is the availability > > of suitable marshy > > coasts near Earth-Prime's cradle of humanity. I > > was imagining a > > process which ends in more realistic merfolk > > via half-aquatic, swamp-dwelling hominins. > > I suppose you could posit a wetter Rift Valley; > not so wet that it's a bay, but low and marshy. > How acquatic are these merfolk supposed to be? Analogy Dolphin < aquatic 'pigs' < 'pigs' Merfolk < Homo aquaticus < 'hominid' Homo Aquaticus is the one I'm thinking of here. But in a world where 'men' and 'dolphins' are more akin than Earth-Prime. Perhaps I'll work on H. aquaticus and then the transition to mermen. Or maybe I should throw geography out the window for the sake of creativity. > > > > > 2) where the Nile empties into the Qattara > > > > (does it ever reach the sea?) > > > > > > I think the Qattara is too deep at ~130m > > below > > > sea level. The Wikipedia article mentions a > > plan > > > to pipe seawater into the Q from the Med. The > > > project would create a lake some 90m deep > > that > > > would evaporate faster than new water is > > allowed > > > in. I'm sure this project would alter the > > local > > > ecosystem; but it might be an interesting > > project > > > for IB's Egypt to undertake rather than > > flooding > > > the area above Aswan. > > > > > > I'm familiar with the pipeline. FIU's Kingdom > > of Egypt might attempt > > it. But my idea is that since Egypt was one of > > the key civilizations > > of the ancient world, and the Nile was the > > lifeline, diverting the > > Nile would be a very big rock in the time > > stream. I initially thought > > of "No Nile World", but couldn't figure out how > > I could accomplish this. > > If the Nile flowed east from its sources in stead > of north... Could it, though? I still like the idea of a basin that doesn't so much _flood_ at different rates, but _evaporates_ at different rates throughout the year. > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios > > > asteros; tamenio > > > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem > > > emduriase! > > > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > Which conlang is this? A Sabine-influenced one? > > It's a noncelang. Has the sound and feel of an > old Italic language but is not based on any. It > translates as "Friends, Marusians, countrymen..." > as I recall. > > In a related language, one Porfius Pomferius > wrote, in his "Pe Salacandam", "Querto tatam > abominos ec didos questundos." Either that, or it > is the same language, but is infected by a QU- > dialect, as "Perto" and "pestundos" would be > expected, given the title of "Pe Salacandam". > > I do have a couple fragments of a Latin-like > language that has some of the sound > characteristics of Oscan / Umbrian: > > Pampan bos flamenes, oullaffer sacrifacefest, > eafta pricuso fahtud bos: > > pater nustre piis in ceilu siest > macreter tefo onumen > ficater tefa bolontion > tisupe ceilupe > pane nuftro mahtu fousie douiad > colfas naftras perficad > poffo colfas oullaferom perfecemes > iuiuseconoi ne feressnes > de sufaper nes lifiriad. > > This in about 1998 or thereabouts. The language > is from the World. > > Padraic > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . >
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Wed Mar 07 16:40:45 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 41368 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 00:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2007 00:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n8c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.170) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 00:40:45 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n8.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 00:39:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 00:39:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.88] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 00:39:48 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:39:47 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <esnm0j+84es@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.170 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.153.241 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: IB: de-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=Az4EGLCPeWB4dAKygUTHvR_KbzX6ysIVVUwF0yzyVhC3UNjU3jgl X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno Hi everybody! What you think about de-proposing (and upgrading them to facts)the following articles? Faisal I http://ib.frath.net/w/Faisal_I Ghazi I http://ib.frath.net/w/Ghazi_I Ibrahim bin Hussayn http://ib.frath.net/w/Ibrahim_bin_Hussayn Faisal II http://ib.frath.net/w/Faisal_II Pedro Moderno
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Mar 07 18:40:41 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24267 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 02:40:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2007 02:40:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52024.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.58) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 02:40:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 95815 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2007 02:40:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20070308024027.95813.qmail@web52024.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: xKaTNX0VM1lzRnZmIvOvSHp.JSbWFn.0gYkbHWCsvZBop3WGwD7kQRdNtBkNtqeHrjQwQvyn1ycp41QBX0eyBeSljeteUNUl_.bKOx_nSuRr7angJfsDj88IIZPPCyKKcpcdFymeJ1X7ubkxg1K9EWfOjhi0ZxB9phXLPaA5IWf7ykGAKCjxYQ-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52024.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 18:40:27 PST Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 18:40:27 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <esnltr+q41r@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.58 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=7l0hY1_ToQtnQrL9HbHEIH2Q2wh62Gq4T3d4NFGHXaGk5Lr7 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> wrote: > Perhaps I'll work on H. aquaticus and then the > transition to mermen. > Or maybe I should throw geography out the > window for the sake of creativity. That might be a plan. Creativity would be a requirement in comming up with an aquatic homonid; some judicious and creative rearrangement of the topography might be in order. > > If the Nile flowed east from its sources in > > stead of north... > > Could it, though? Some judicious and creative rearrangement of the topography... > I still like the idea of a basin that doesn't > so much _flood_ at > different rates, but _evaporates_ at different > rates throughout the year. I'm not sure if the Qatara Basin would be able to handle the flow of the Nile, though. The water might not evaporate fast enough. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Thu Mar 08 03:53:51 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 85437 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 11:53:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2007 11:53:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.104) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 11:53:49 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n10.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 11:53:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 11:53:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 08 Mar 2007 11:53:42 -0000 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:53:42 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <esotg6+uman@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.104 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=wugBk1mAA9FxXUZxblR-hQedxRRKwRpnNQr3M5i4FTv_cQNyfxnHGA X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones Any thoughts on Pre-contact Old World changes that could be made. There are a few I'd like - *China with a phonetic script (much easier to remember) *At least one celtic-speaking state in the British Isles (but I'm biased) *Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism more widespread and/or have a larger following by the present day *Surviving Byzantine Empire *Castile, Navarre (all of it) and Aragon remain seperate *Austrian Colonial Empire Also, when will the first contact between Old World and New World occur? (This is to help calibrate the butterfly effect.) Thoughts? Comments? (especially from Geoff)
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Thu Mar 08 11:06:31 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 96490 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2007 19:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m40a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 8 Mar 2007 19:06:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52022.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.56) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2007 19:06:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 66552 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Mar 2007 19:05:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20070308190531.66550.qmail@web52022.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 80wQ.X4VM1kVWMQ93LSRhhe65OK1Cg1gqZcpGLIKXnFp4KkTjsu3uTEBpMMdkVfya17kVZ44mtB1FzXANpak1b2i2FAZRLig5PndUjWDlklU6IWbXIHXTHBEuZajiXLkoryOtJCCUIdB8PLvk9J5Zx8P9lIOCYVWT2mLGW67Nf2ZkLvhTyHBluZLUD5_lf9e Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52022.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:05:31 PST Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 11:05:31 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <esotg6+uman@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=d2wVecxygrUIDLV07x6-ZERLiRBvvELbK2HxfH4B7ZgQRToQ X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Any thoughts on Pre-contact Old World changes > that could be made. There > are a few I'd like - > > *China with a phonetic script (much easier to > remember) > *At least one celtic-speaking state in the > British Isles (but I'm biased) > *Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism more widespread > and/or have a larger > following by the present day > *Surviving Byzantine Empire > *Castile, Navarre (all of it) and Aragon remain > seperate > *Austrian Colonial Empire A very apt description of Ill Bethisad: * Chinese writing is unchanged :( * The AE is Gaelic speaking; the Arvorec Isles are Modern Gaulish speaking * Zoroastrianism and Manicheanism are more widespread, especially Z. * The Byzantine/Roman empire survives in the guise of the Kingdom of Kemr * The Spains are plural *there* * Austria-Dalmatia had a large overseas empire, almost entirely in Africa > Also, when will the first contact between Old > World and New World > occur? (This is to help calibrate the butterfly > effect.) The _first_ happened when the first peoples left Asia and arrived in America. ;))) For IB, Columbus is the "official" first contact; but everyone in Scandinavia knows Leifr Erikson got there before him; and everyone in England knows that English fishermen beat Leifr to the punch; and everyone in the Basque country knows that Basque fishermen beat the English there; and everyone in Ireland knows that Saint Brendan got there before the Basques and everyone in Kemr knows that Saint Perran got to America before that as well. > Thoughts? Comments? (especially from Geoff) Not Geoff, but your wishlist has been granted all the same! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Fri Mar 09 03:33:12 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 56582 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2007 11:33:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2007 11:33:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.176.70) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2007 11:33:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 51865 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2007 11:21:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20070309112150.51863.qmail@web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 23JXnRwVM1mm7g_Ch.2tTIkw4PTunhU9ks7.MUD9dbVZb.CZvFYn_SV_R2Xx3llxIyqALnOpt46QuV36VGPsHfIQB5AIe2roiADEqud9v3dZJ9mQaWlznFG0Fw0wfjDJoJ6gmLA1K4B9Np8kuHEB4bE- Received: from [65.69.155.200] by web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 11:21:47 GMT Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:21:47 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <esotg6+uman@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 217.146.176.70 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=kS8VtnRENrfU81U5ecd7LrHvhM6a7elvjmeG1sIFuRsee8LgSsR0Sg X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Any thoughts on Pre-contact Old World changes that > could be made. There > are a few I'd like - > > *China with a phonetic script (much easier to > remember) I don't see why not. Maybe something similar to Chou Yin, or some other extremely simplified character-derived system. > *At least one celtic-speaking state in the British > Isles (but I'm > biased) No problem there. Pick your state and justify it. Scotland and Ireland are probably more likely survivors than Wales or Cornwall, but that's *this* reality. A TL where Edward was never the military conqueror that he was *here* might well result in your namesake "the Last" not being the Last at all, but uniting a resurgent Cymru that goes on to maintain its independence. > *Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism more widespread > and/or have a larger > following by the present day That could make life interesting! What if the Muslims never won quite as resounding a victory over the Persians? Persia (and its imperial territories in Central Asia) might well lean more to Zoroastrianism and/or Manichaeanism. This might also radically curtail the Eastward spread of Islam, and N. India, Malaysia, Indonesia etc might be Buddhist or Hindu or something else. > *Surviving Byzantine Empire Li Alam has a surviving Byzantine Empire, and the overt POD for that TL is 1147 in the middle of the Second Crusade. (There was a stronger Nestorian Church *there* even before that, but no overt changest to history before that date). > *Castile, Navarre (all of it) and Aragon remain > seperate Possible. How would the continued disunity of the Spains affect the Reconquista? > *Austrian Colonial Empire > What do you mean by "Colonial"? I assume you mean like France, Britain, Spain, Portugal and so on, carving out territories for themselves in Africa and the Americas (as well as elsewhere)? > Also, when will the first contact between Old World > and New World > occur? (This is to help calibrate the butterfly > effect.) > I liked your idea of making the major first contact be the Viking one with Eriksson. This gives a contact date of circa 1001CE, according to Wikipedia. If the repercussions of the contact become felt fairly strongly fairly soon after that, you should get most of what you want. > Thoughts? Comments? (especially from Geoff) > > ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Fri Mar 09 04:02:46 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22372 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2007 12:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2007 12:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.134) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2007 12:02:44 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 12:02:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 12:02:15 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 12:02:15 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 12:02:15 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <esric7+78jp@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070309112150.51863.qmail@web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.134 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 147.143.102.11 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=ehDNpE0y43iAzpGfvQ3LJ828XsYXr3DXEwOQTKod4iY_TlaEsyVwgw X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@...> wrote: > > > --- Llywelyn Jones <llywelynjones@...> wrote: > > > Any thoughts on Pre-contact Old World changes that > > could be made. There > > are a few I'd like - > > > > *China with a phonetic script (much easier to > > remember) > > I don't see why not. Maybe something similar to Chou > Yin, or some other extremely simplified > character-derived system. > > > *At least one celtic-speaking state in the British > > Isles (but I'm > > biased) > > No problem there. Pick your state and justify it. > Scotland and Ireland are probably more likely > survivors than Wales or Cornwall, but that's *this* > reality. A TL where Edward was never the military > conqueror that he was *here* might well result in your > namesake "the Last" not being the Last at all, but > uniting a resurgent Cymru that goes on to maintain its > independence. > Actually, I was thinking about having a P-Celtic version of IB's Kemr (and perhaps an independent Strathclyde if we could squeeze it in). > > *Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism more widespread > > and/or have a larger > > following by the present day > > That could make life interesting! What if the Muslims > never won quite as resounding a victory over the > Persians? Persia (and its imperial territories in > Central Asia) might well lean more to Zoroastrianism > and/or Manichaeanism. This might also radically > curtail the Eastward spread of Islam, and N. India, > Malaysia, Indonesia etc might be Buddhist or Hindu or > something else. > > > *Surviving Byzantine Empire > > Li Alam has a surviving Byzantine Empire, and the > overt POD for that TL is 1147 in the middle of the > Second Crusade. (There was a stronger Nestorian Church > *there* even before that, but no overt changest to > history before that date). Hmm, Byzantine colonial empire. :) > > > *Castile, Navarre (all of it) and Aragon remain > > seperate > > Possible. How would the continued disunity of the > Spains affect the Reconquista? > Not much, I'd think. Navarre is too far north to do much. Castile would get the bulk of Al-Andalus, with Aragon getting a bit of the province of Murcia in addition to what it gained *here* > > *Austrian Colonial Empire > > > > What do you mean by "Colonial"? I assume you mean > like France, Britain, Spain, Portugal and so on, > carving out territories for themselves in Africa and > the Americas (as well as elsewhere)? Yes, preaty much. > > > Also, when will the first contact between Old World > > and New World > > occur? (This is to help calibrate the butterfly > > effect.) > > > > I liked your idea of making the major first contact be > the Viking one with Eriksson. This gives a contact > date of circa 1001CE, according to Wikipedia. If the > repercussions of the contact become felt fairly > strongly fairly soon after that, you should get most > of what you want. Since the primary PoD is so far in the past, I think we could manage most (if not all) of them. Besides, whoever said that we couldn't sneek in a few more PoDs in, IB-style? :) Oh, and before I forget this time, perhaps a duotheistic Judaism (where they still worship Asherah)?
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Fri Mar 09 08:39:21 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84322 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2007 16:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2007 16:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.127) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2007 16:38:50 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 16:37:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 16:37:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 16:37:39 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:37:38 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ess2gi+88v1@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070307162146.27078.qmail@web52020.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.127 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Report of Helvetian Aggression X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=viKXegO9Yx_dMxf90vD2wZ9FOtTLmuqXoObDtbuRdBjFDhBG X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > Brown <elemtilas@> wrote: > > > > > > --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@> wrote: > > > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, > > "Christian > > > > Thalmann" <cinga@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Does Liechtenstein exist in Ill Bethisad? > > > > > > > > > > -- Christian Thalmann > > > > > > > > > Quite possibly...a bellicose little nation > > that > > > > has more arms > > > > per-capita than France has cheeses.... > > > > > > Actually, there is no Lichtenstein in IB. I'm > > > pretty sure it has been discussed, too. > > > > A breakaway republic? Maybe? ;) (I'm > > kidding...I dont' want to > > redraw the maps...) > > Too many republics as is mumblemumblemumble... > Don't worry...I'll refuse to recognize them if it ever happens...no maps for me, thank you. ;)
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Fri Mar 09 08:41:07 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80368 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2007 16:41:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Mar 2007 16:41:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.167) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2007 16:41:07 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n7.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 16:39:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 16:39:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Mar 2007 16:39:27 -0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:39:25 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <ess2jt+srd0@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <esnm0j+84es@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.167 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: de-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=4IuuyGZ5FRXQubAY9PWN2lJEfYPJV339ug2pZR7j9pkUqtWh X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> wrote: > > Hi everybody! > What you think about de-proposing (and upgrading them to facts)the > following articles? > > Faisal I > http://ib.frath.net/w/Faisal_I > > Ghazi I > http://ib.frath.net/w/Ghazi_I > > Ibrahim bin Hussayn > http://ib.frath.net/w/Ibrahim_bin_Hussayn > > Faisal II > http://ib.frath.net/w/Faisal_II > > > Pedro Moderno > Put it this way; I like them, they seem to mesh, but if they are ever found to violate QSS in whatever form (DOUBTFUL) we'll have to revisit them at that time.
From carrajena@yahoo.com Fri Mar 09 16:17:18 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43835 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2007 00:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2007 00:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60322.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.130) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2007 00:17:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 36101 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2007 00:17:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ezpAteoVM1nGovCAa5x3jqJ7QkNrHug6w90FLeHb5qqUQjLfj4_IDYW82fMbJIbwsygHOXSxU7X0cABQnyUJKkkxGFfxV94sQUxLJX8lhXmX9Na5L00OtuR9Djym Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60322.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:17:16 PST Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 16:17:16 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070309112150.51863.qmail@web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <634940.35358.qm@web60322.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.130 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y=7zOPg9SQ4zuDheRZZ_XAd5xowN5Z-3pxhORLDoN0ou-sMMnT X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > > *Castile, Navarre (all of it) and Aragon remain > > seperate > > Possible. How would the continued disunity of the > Spains affect the Reconquista? > Well, in C-a the "Spains" never unify. I'm not sure what becmes of Navarre (need to investigate), but Aragon becomes ascendant when they capture and keep Toledo. The entire Mediterranian coast of Hispania is Catalan speaking as is the Aragonese province of Grenada. Leon has a costal region in the north between Aquitaina, (Navarre?) and Portugal/Galicia and another in the south between Aragon and Portugal. The Reconquista happens pretty much on schedule, though, since Islam is so much weaker in C-a due to the loss of Egypt, Chirrinaga, Carraja and Morridanya. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Fri Mar 09 16:55:13 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23865 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2007 00:55:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2007 00:55:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.129) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2007 00:55:12 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2007 00:55:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2007 00:55:06 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Mar 2007 00:55:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 00:55:05 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <essvl9+ncra@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <ess2jt+srd0@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.129 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 89.180.24.118 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: IB: de-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=lu7SluPXxgdYLVBU2B0cYSVmrCV5X0cvjRvBs2k-z4kS13AG8a3B X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > > Put it this way; I like them, they seem to mesh, but if they are ever > found to violate QSS in whatever form (DOUBTFUL) we'll have to revisit > them at that time. > Ok, Daniel. When I created these articles I tried to find gaps in Middle East *there* so I could find space for my ideas. And it seems there are lots of gaps compared to Europe *there*, for example. I think these don't violate QSS, at least I didn't find then any violation. But if someone does (now or later) I would be glad to make the necessary changes. Pedro Moderno
From geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk Sat Mar 10 11:53:10 2007 Return-Path: <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 62094 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2007 19:53:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Mar 2007 19:53:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com) (217.146.177.72) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Mar 2007 19:53:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 34227 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2007 19:41:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Pt31BDcVM1nemdLwEMWsu9sMXXBOJ62ZJNEON5qebVAsULwW1eBwxAs12AH.zC_AKbMQyMYyrPvc5EfE5LhrLkV2CTCfYN7AcPySHzhrdfci3fg0iQvNG7uqDX6LnMRgeRK1eEL_tpGmSfQz3tA- Received: from [67.64.151.145] by web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:41:31 GMT Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:41:31 +0000 (GMT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070309112150.51863.qmail@web26707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <643654.31812.qm@web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 217.146.177.72 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=228651197; y=pxu_W2s9b6LTfBkgYqfjUrCZxfCg1vyxLXJKNQhW3IJb9ZkM9xJJRw X-Yahoo-Profile: geoffhorswood > > *Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism more widespread > > and/or have a larger > > following by the present day > > That could make life interesting! What if the > Muslims > never won quite as resounding a victory over the > Persians? Persia (and its imperial territories in > Central Asia) might well lean more to Zoroastrianism > and/or Manichaeanism. This might also radically > curtail the Eastward spread of Islam, and N. India, > Malaysia, Indonesia etc might be Buddhist or Hindu > or > something else. Another thing I thought of afterwards was how it would affect the spread of Islam if one of their first non-Arabian conquests (that of Zoroastrian Persia) didn't happen, or happened to a less-than-complete degree. The resulting loss of military confidence might well cause the religion to develop rather differently, and to absorb a lot less territory into its core area. Of course, Coptic Egypt and North Africa initially welcomed the Muslims as liberators from the oppressive rule of Byzantium. But what if a less-confident Islam never tried to conquer them, having failed to take over Persia? ===== One by one the penguins are stealing my sanity -Graffitum spotted on a bridge in England ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sat Mar 10 22:11:11 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28019 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2007 06:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2007 06:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52020.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.252) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2007 06:11:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 55494 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2007 06:11:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20070311061103.55492.qmail@web52020.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 5lHOvbcVM1koz.BI6VYxdIKaWwQDBLCTov2WjUOZUYc9guswSe0fV3C0yMo417RbnX_maP3FmhVfwgWotDTX0eJ0exoBJxUXvC3dN.UZikgANAHLYPORuayolyg_GX0DOa0DZXzVQoTlzf2pn99VDt_cxoj.5Mfrv4tX_.Cv1zcO7HXSIrKZYUiqR5TbweA- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52020.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 22:11:03 PST Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 22:11:03 -0800 (PST) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <643654.31812.qm@web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=n9c-tSJWAXni_B_YF6Rmg13M0FKaFh4hm4FnZgNEK5Q7S6hj X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Another thing I thought of afterwards was how > it [survival of Zoroastrianism] would > affect the spread of Islam if one of their > first > non-Arabian conquests (that of Zoroastrian > Persia) > didn't happen, or happened to a > less-than-complete degree. In the World, the Mediterranean (up until the recent upheavals) and middle east and parts of the *Caribbean is Zoroastrian for the most part. Mithraism and Christianity are the runners up. There is a vaguely Islam-like religion that is practiced in Mauretania -- it could be Mohammed's fragmented followers ended up in far western Africa. > The resulting loss of military confidence might > well > cause the religion to develop rather > differently, and > to absorb a lot less territory into its core > area. > Of course, Coptic Egypt and North Africa > initially > welcomed the Muslims as liberators from the > oppressive > rule of Byzantium. But what if a > less-confident Islam > never tried to conquer them, having failed to > take over Persia? It might be possible for the whole thing to collapse, especially early on. A religion that relies on the sword to spread its message could just as easily die by that sword. Enough early defeats and the leadership might be "replaced". One thing is pretty certain: if Persia isn't converted, then chances are good that Islam will never have a go at the later Mongol hordes... Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sun Mar 11 12:58:58 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 29248 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2007 19:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2007 19:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.117) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2007 19:58:57 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n14.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2007 19:56:35 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2007 19:56:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2007 19:56:35 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 19:56:34 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <et1mti+g9s0@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.117 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Mostly FIU News: Mar. 7-11 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=5iSk2CbgwQZymeZmEtCb0Jc-eb0ULeUpYrtkrTDfAu0Ya4ZjRg X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 7 (FIU) GONG CITY, Northern Zone of Jinguo - The Merchants' Guild of Gong City have offered an alliance with the Emperor, better known as Assemblyman Xian Jaohao. The Guild would provide mercantile contacts and scavenged Qipu Corporation technology in exchange for agricultural produce. 8 (FIU) UVIÉU, Republic of Asturias - Olayu Catuxa y Llelles, Head of Government, and Amilcar Agostinho Carvalhal Salvador, President of the Secular Republic of Portugal, have agreed on a cultural exchange program between Portugal and Asturias. This program would be similar to one which existed between Portugal and the Kingdom of England, Scotland, and Durham prior to the Liberian controversy. 9 (FIU) Bandar Bugis, on Al-Janubiyya Premier Alam ibn-Karim Rakotaorimanana has suffered further setbacks in the multi-party talks over the fissile disarmament of the Tribal Region of Uluru. 10 (FIU) Kingdom of the Tamils, SOUTHERN INDIA - Hetuhamy and Arawinda crept cautiously through the dim of night, carrying the package whose contents they did not know. What they did know was that whatever the package contained was the best, and maybe last hope, for the alliance of Tamils and Burmans. Then the click of rifles sounded in the night. Indian Imperial soldiers barked at the two to surrender the package. 11 (Earth - Tasmanian Devil) "I will tell you why," Pranvera said. "It wouldn't do any good to see a representative patient because General Hasta, leader of this nation, wouldn't allow you to spread any cure among his people." "He's a general. Doesn't he want his troops to be healthy?" Canida asked. "Certainly. But if other generals learned that he had vaccinated his troops, he would seem weak. " "That's the dumbest thing I've heard." "It is our way." "It doesn't seem to work very well right now." The Healer said, "I have vast experience in diplomacy. Your General could not be more difficult than the Nosophagoi and their giant war- ants." "Well," Pranvera conceded, "We have reached a point of desperation. If you sold him on the cure as a biological weapon, he might consent to its use." "Don't do it, Healer!"
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sun Mar 11 13:16:19 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14390 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2007 20:16:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2007 20:16:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.111) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2007 20:16:18 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2007 20:14:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2007 20:14:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2007 20:14:39 -0000 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:14:38 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <et1nve+mjq8@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070308024027.95813.qmail@web52024.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.111 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=kQzmOGV91aloCASxTCzhKo8U5pYc16cqu_j8fz8YgyxVaLCXAA X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@...> > wrote: > > > Perhaps I'll work on H. aquaticus and then the > > transition to mermen. > > Or maybe I should throw geography out the > > window for the sake of creativity. > > That might be a plan. Creativity would be a > requirement in comming up with an aquatic > homonid; some judicious and creative > rearrangement of the topography might be in > order. > > > > > If the Nile flowed east from its sources in > > > stead of north... > > > > Could it, though? > > Some judicious and creative rearrangement of the > topography... If there were no Nile, there is no Egypt. Eliminating Egypt reuqires the nomads flee to Palestine. The language of Egypt-Prime was accelerated due to the admixture of refugees who were assimilated; on Earth-NN, this language would likely be in Palestine and Phoenicia. Egypt-Prime provided the 365-day calendar; Earth-NN would lack that early measuring tool. Egypt-Prime's hieroglyphics allegedly inspired the Semitic abjad via the desert mines; no Nile, no Egypt, no state mines in the desert, no abjad. > > > I still like the idea of a basin that doesn't > > so much _flood_ at > > different rates, but _evaporates_ at different > > rates throughout the year. > > I'm not sure if the Qatara Basin would be able to > handle the flow of the Nile, though. The water > might not evaporate fast enough. I examined some topo maps. Even if the volume of the Nile is too great for the Qattara Basin proper, the surrounding topography suggests that the body of water would be larger, but still not reach the sea. If there were an outlet, it would be near El-Alamein. Settlement would be difficult. > > Padraic > > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . >
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sun Mar 11 16:40:10 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87949 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2007 23:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2007 23:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52026.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.27) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2007 23:40:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 91272 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Mar 2007 23:40:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20070311234008.91270.qmail@web52026.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: KWLNRlcVM1mSdlwn9iv.Isi57r41yVxjp8E18LNfeL2oAfdtbOM7biOf6u7vI8Yb5l8.CP2Y5.mASLth5ENWDoGGvSFiut_8DUietylfzYqBsaTMMI7KobWPLAw3N5CGKAsaPTq0DMFfctRWNtpQTZO27SPJJXv5.iLTB05lKZcqh8IOtt5I Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52026.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:40:08 PDT Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:40:08 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <et1nve+mjq8@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.27 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=30duIi2rMbjVWW6qVw9315kGXRclS_XmeXdll1DgvRiYuVp7 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@...> > > wrote: > > > > > Perhaps I'll work on H. aquaticus and then > the > > > transition to mermen. > > > Or maybe I should throw geography out the > > > window for the sake of creativity. > > > > That might be a plan. Creativity would be a > > requirement in comming up with an aquatic > > homonid; some judicious and creative > > rearrangement of the topography might be in > > order. > > > > > > > > > > If the Nile flowed east from its sources > in > > > > stead of north... > > > > > > Could it, though? > > > > Some judicious and creative rearrangement of > the > > topography... > > If there were no Nile, there is no Egypt. Ah, indeed, I can see how that could be a problem. For the Egyptians at least. > Eliminating Egypt reuqires > the nomads flee to Palestine. The language of > Egypt-Prime was > accelerated due to the admixture of refugees > who were assimilated; on > Earth-NN, this language would likely be in > Palestine and Phoenicia. > Egypt-Prime provided the 365-day calendar; > Earth-NN would lack that > early measuring tool. Egypt-Prime's > hieroglyphics allegedly inspired > the Semitic abjad via the desert mines; no > Nile, no Egypt, no state > mines in the desert, no abjad. Well, you requested a "no Nile world" ("I initially thought of "No Nile World", but couldn't figure out how I could accomplish this.") and hey presto. By the way, there are no returns or exchanges on our ReadyBilt worlds! ;))) Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 07:18:01 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3911 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2007 14:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Mar 2007 14:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.183) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2007 14:17:05 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2007 14:16:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2007 14:16:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2007 14:16:58 -0000 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:16:57 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <et3ncp+1sem@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <essvl9+ncra@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.183 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: de-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=n2KgCBH3Gbl0Dw2sbGXsSl-_N8MnIGKz0lbAyMqBk5FGG3J9 X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@> > wrote: > > > > > Put it this way; I like them, they seem to mesh, but if they are ever > > found to violate QSS in whatever form (DOUBTFUL) we'll have to > revisit > > them at that time. > > > > Ok, Daniel. > When I created these articles I tried to find gaps in Middle East > *there* so I could find space for my ideas. And it seems there are > lots of gaps compared to Europe *there*, for example. I think these > don't violate QSS, at least I didn't find then any violation. But if > someone does (now or later) I would be glad to make the necessary > changes. > > Pedro Moderno > The only persons that I know of that might have something in mind would be Padraic, Steg Belsky or at the outmost, Andrew. That's what I meant in my comment.
From carrajena@yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 17:22:31 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31349 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2007 00:22:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2007 00:22:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60323.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.131) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2007 00:22:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 31136 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Mar 2007 00:22:29 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KSzarv0VM1kkm9eNewOBryi__9lPCawrFw7nW0qi1GJVMsmCXK4DS_aORJZOTyaGH3UKplfoLKd2t8S2jRAIa6nMO58Mak5yOb0uxsfmOSy9yIP4IBQPfwgy5JS4zIowAe0_ckAHWbkY Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60323.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:22:29 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:22:29 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <643654.31812.qm@web26715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <434440.27763.qm@web60323.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.131 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y=SCOiKXx1nb77kJizdrDSVkWs8W1Gn5PaPgPU6Pa2KeP_1AXc X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Another thing I thought of afterwards was how it > would > affect the spread of Islam if one of their first > non-Arabian conquests (that of Zoroastrian Persia) > didn't happen, or happened to a less-than-complete > degree. > The resulting loss of military confidence might well > cause the religion to develop rather differently, > and > to absorb a lot less territory into its core area. > Of course, Coptic Egypt and North Africa initially > welcomed the Muslims as liberators from the > oppressive > rule of Byzantium. But what if a less-confident > Islam > never tried to conquer them, having failed to take > over Persia? > In C-a Persia fell as in our world, and so did Egypt, but the Egyptians had already thrown out Byzantium so they looked on Islam as a foreign oppressor destroying their brand new independence rather than lireators. Revolts were frequent and the refugees stirred up Carthage to resist. The resistance meant much harsher rule and continued defiance. Egypt held on to the Coptic language and Coptic Orthodoxy. Carthage held on to Carrajina and Donatism. Here's Morroco is a real mixed bag. Islam did not spread south into the Sahara. During the Cursade period all of North Africa experienced periodic revolts which were eventually successful. That made the Reconquista in a fractured Spain much easier. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Tue Mar 13 16:41:57 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5308 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2007 23:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 13 Mar 2007 23:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Mar 2007 23:41:55 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2007 23:41:32 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2007 23:41:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.83] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 Mar 2007 23:41:32 -0000 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:41:31 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <et7crb+v2d5@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Polycosmic News: Mar. 12-13 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=ARgXFGE2QH12rrc4HABk6Wg-bS9U3RWn8P_E-PYCUAEFXEn9Gw X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 12 (Detective World) "In any world," the stranger said to Alice Beth Royal and Jane Forgill, "there are those who not only live in it, but shape it. In ancient times, these were the mystics and shamans. Later philosophers combined the mystical and the scientific. Those men whom you revere as the early scientists were not yet blind to the mysteries life offers. In this period, however, the mechanical and the deductive have become the primary worldview, creating a blindness to all others. In former days, your friends would have been great teachers of sacred wisdom; their faith in science and solutions has made their influence emanate through those ways." "That's ridiculous,' Forgill asserted. "Is it?" questioned Alice Beth. 13 (Magnoverse) A growing sense is dis-ease arose in the Duc Diminutive as he reentered the Magnoverse. It was more than the abrupt disappearance of gravity from the tetrarchy of fundamental forces and a sudden stiffness in his comet net. The swarms through which he flew displayed unexpected patterns. Perhaps his sojourn had been longer than it seemed.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Wed Mar 14 08:35:36 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52167 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 15:35:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 15:35:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.220) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 15:35:36 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n27.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 15:35:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Mar 2007 15:35:13 -0000 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:35:10 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <et94ne+baaq@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070311234008.91270.qmail@web52026.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.220 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.202.221.89 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Re: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=osHjQf9I660gNjeMUKHp-qLBbRHv5CLWzZpyDfDGsRgP_pSWMA X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@...> > wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > Brown <elemtilas@> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Perhaps I'll work on H. aquaticus and then > > the > > > > transition to mermen. > > > > Or maybe I should throw geography out the > > > > window for the sake of creativity. > > > > > > That might be a plan. Creativity would be a > > > requirement in comming up with an aquatic > > > homonid; some judicious and creative > > > rearrangement of the topography might be in > > > order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Nile flowed east from its sources > > in > > > > > stead of north... > > > > > > > > Could it, though? > > > > > > Some judicious and creative rearrangement of > > the > > > topography... > > > > If there were no Nile, there is no Egypt. > > Ah, indeed, I can see how that could be a > problem. For the Egyptians at least. > > > Eliminating Egypt reuqires > > the nomads flee to Palestine. The language of > > Egypt-Prime was > > accelerated due to the admixture of refugees > > who were assimilated; on > > Earth-NN, this language would likely be in > > Palestine and Phoenicia. > > Egypt-Prime provided the 365-day calendar; > > Earth-NN would lack that > > early measuring tool. Egypt-Prime's > > hieroglyphics allegedly inspired > > the Semitic abjad via the desert mines; no > > Nile, no Egypt, no state > > mines in the desert, no abjad. > > Well, you requested a "no Nile world" ("I > initially thought of "No Nile World", but > couldn't figure out how I could accomplish > this.") and hey presto. By the way, there are no > returns or exchanges on our ReadyBilt worlds! > ;))) I think that the 365-day calendar would exist anyway, but have its sole provenance in Mesopotamia. The geographic situation of Canaan- NN, however, would no longer be that of a corridor between two rich areas (Egypt and the Fertile Crescent), but that of a nation at an extreme. Would it have more peace? No abjad-NN means no Ugaritic 'alphabet', either, and no script inspiration for the nations of Javan. Now the question is: Biblical history - how do we handle it? > > Padraic > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio > vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! > --Pomperios Perfurios. > > -- > > Ill Bethisad -- > <http://www.bethisad.com> > > > Come visit The World! -- > <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> > > > > > > > > . >
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Mar 14 11:32:42 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 28300 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2007 18:32:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 14 Mar 2007 18:32:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52016.mail.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.248) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Mar 2007 18:32:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 32891 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Mar 2007 18:32:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20070314183225.32889.qmail@web52016.mail.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: JOd2Q2cVM1l_.PWvlCxcJovXriXfXaHlr.8KW5Qyq3zI.yZ75et7uk7_7ivw8C9MAGUd_OQw2U8xyCtgK3OK_2jVoTp3L17ITq_l_pdqRO2CeFl9.er7ajeoyHK5MGrRIcEBL8lwFDW7rB03OzXspHzEJmSKx6g_.q3ObTnPLKD1O0ZWVunmlL.HBDazuKU- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52016.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:32:25 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:32:25 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <et94ne+baaq@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: ConCulture Book Recommendation X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=jlMriEDwflmEK1YV7PK5G2OeFQO3cSer6vG2MgSTRam7wzjT X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> > wrote: > > > > > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@...> > > wrote: > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > > Brown <elemtilas@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- habarakhe4 <Anthony.Miles@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Perhaps I'll work on H. aquaticus and > then > > > the > > > > > transition to mermen. > > > > > Or maybe I should throw geography out > the > > > > > window for the sake of creativity. > > > > > > > > That might be a plan. Creativity would be > a > > > > requirement in comming up with an aquatic > > > > homonid; some judicious and creative > > > > rearrangement of the topography might be > in > > > > order. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Nile flowed east from its > sources > > > in > > > > > > stead of north... > > > > > > > > > > Could it, though? > > > > > > > > Some judicious and creative rearrangement > of > > > the > > > > topography... > > > > > > If there were no Nile, there is no Egypt. > > > > Ah, indeed, I can see how that could be a > > problem. For the Egyptians at least. > > > > > Eliminating Egypt reuqires > > > the nomads flee to Palestine. The language > of > > Well, you requested a "no Nile world" ("I > > initially thought of "No Nile World", but > > couldn't figure out how I could accomplish > > this.") and hey presto. By the way, there are > > no > > returns or exchanges on our ReadyBilt worlds! > > ;))) > > I think that the 365-day calendar would exist > anyway, but have its > sole provenance in Mesopotamia. Makes sense. > The geographic situation of Canaan- > NN, however, would no longer be that of a > corridor between two rich > areas (Egypt and the Fertile Crescent), but > that of a nation at an > extreme. Would it have more peace? Probably not. Britain was also at the edge and it didn't have much peace. If there's something in Canaan that someone else wants, then there won't be much peace. If there ever becomes a western world in this scenario, this region will still become a crossroads. > No abjad-NN means no Ugaritic 'alphabet', Possibly. Another inspiration could nudge the creation of something similar. > either, and no script > inspiration for the nations of Javan. Now the > question is: Biblical > history - how do we handle it? What biblical history? If you take as literal the stories in the Bible (here I'm thinking especially of the captivity in Egypt and all the surrounding stories), then without an Egypt you might not have a biblical history in this alterworld. If Egypt provided the inspiration for monotheism, then you might not have a recognisable Judaism and later Christianity. You certainly won't have a mosaic covenant on Sinai or an ark etc. Lots of room to play around in, and lots of virgin territory and lots of things to speculate about! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From plikma@hotmail.com Thu Mar 15 12:33:05 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22954 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2007 19:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 15 Mar 2007 19:33:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.215) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Mar 2007 19:33:04 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n18.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 19:32:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 19:32:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Mar 2007 19:32:56 -0000 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:32:55 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etc717+keep@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.215 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: IB: Local government of England X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=Fv6Ro9LtNUu-es-GV0S6gkb_--_t6W908D9Qw7JM1bLv8g X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas There are some things I'd like to propose for Ill Bethisad about Local Government in England in addition to what is at http://ib.frath.net/w/England - 1) That something like the Local Government Act of 1888 went ahead, setting up county councils. 2) The Local Government Act of 1894 most certainly did not go ahead, with Cities and Hundreds getting most of the powers assigned to districts, although with more power to Cities than Hundreds. (It seems virtually QSS that the 1972 reforms did not go ahead!) 2) That the Soke of Peterborough and the Isle of Ely are county corporates within Cambridgeshire; perhaps the Bishop of Ely has similar (at least ceremonial) powers to the bishop of Durham? 3) That most of the enclaves/exclaves of counties, and the county corporates not in (2), were abolished in C19. 4) That the Parts of Lincolnshire and the Ridings of Yorkshire have most of the authority expected in a county council with no real seeing for those counties of own councils. 5) That the County of London was never created, but that the Metropolitan Board of Works was created and looks after things such as the Metropolitan Police, the fire service, infrastructure, transport etc etc and was expanded in 1965 to cover all of *here*'s greater London. What do others think -
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Fri Mar 16 07:48:14 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 82550 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 14:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 14:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.56) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 14:48:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 52866 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2007 14:48:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20070316144807.52864.qmail@web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: BzPMLdgVM1neX6I_V9Rxzef2I6sYN.CSHPolmnaJlQap7KWctJIXo5ckH0hu1oCk42l7iDqSsgvAnFewkDBw291BU9yiTuWylTYVk0MAf2D27Q64trOQ0c33MWiaGkvIb3.Kg9tcYJB2nu3j3gfQUOMkf5yv4xr9ImgDZIPU77OX7YPXcPhu Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:48:06 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:48:06 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <etc717+keep@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.56 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Local government of England X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=kBJ_E13-59A8HbNmwOaY6pL8Rpo0ZTWlk5KSlvP84cnSD28_ X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > There are some things I'd like to propose for > Ill Bethisad about Local > Government in England in addition to what is at > http://ib.frath.net/w/England - > > 1) That something like the Local Government Act > of 1888 went ahead, > setting up county councils. Probably a good idea. > 2) The Local Government Act of 1894 most > certainly did not go ahead, > with Cities and Hundreds getting most of the > powers assigned to > districts, although with more power to Cities > than Hundreds. (It seems > virtually QSS that the 1972 reforms did not go > ahead!) Agreed, at least to the latter. > 2) That the Soke of Peterborough and the Isle > of Ely are county > corporates within Cambridgeshire; perhaps the > Bishop of Ely has > similar (at least ceremonial) powers to the > bishop of Durham? Sounds interesting. What sort of ceremonial powers? > 3) That most of the enclaves/exclaves of > counties, and the county > corporates not in (2), were abolished in C19. I think that makes sense, too. I never though it was too sensible to have bits of this county over in that county. > 4) That the Parts of Lincolnshire and the > Ridings of Yorkshire have > most of the authority expected in a county > council with no real seeing > for those counties of own councils. > 5) That the County of London was never created, > but that the > Metropolitan Board of Works was created and > looks after things such as > the Metropolitan Police, the fire service, > infrastructure, transport > etc etc and was expanded in 1965 to cover all > of *here*'s greater London. Could go along with that one too. > What do others think - That we wish we knew about the history of English local governance! I agree about the 1972 reforms not having taken place. The county map I used when drawing up the borders was a previous version of the counties. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From plikma@hotmail.com Fri Mar 16 08:45:53 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 24504 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 15:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 15:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 15:45:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 15:44:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.78] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 15:44:31 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:44:30 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etee0u+3fkc@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070316144807.52864.qmail@web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.216 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: IB: Local government of England X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=V4VsLk-mNltY_Wdfe9rEOhA5_VeRJd9g2BeSrQFCA0zRtQ X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > 2) That the Soke of Peterborough and the Isle > > of Ely are county > > corporates within Cambridgeshire; perhaps the > > Bishop of Ely has > > similar (at least ceremonial) powers to the > > bishop of Durham? > > Sounds interesting. What sort of ceremonial > powers? > I.e. only de jure powers, not de facto ones, a bit like a the royal perogative. Opens council meetings, has some sort of non-voting seat of office, etc etc. > > 4) That the Parts of Lincolnshire and the > > Ridings of Yorkshire have > > most of the authority expected in a county > > council with no real seeing > > for those counties of own councils. My main reason for this was it seemed very IB, having a very poetic system - for want of a better word - where the obsession with rationality for its own sake hasn't completely taken over. > > 5) That the County of London was never created, > > but that the > > Metropolitan Board of Works was created and > > looks after things such as > > the Metropolitan Police, the fire service, > > infrastructure, transport > > etc etc and was expanded in 1965 to cover all > > of *here*'s greater London. > > Could go along with that one too. > That one was principally because it was the only practical thing I could think of. Not having some sort of representation for London would be a little odd IMO especially for infrastructure purposes.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Fri Mar 16 09:49:19 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75075 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 16:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 16:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.10) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 16:49:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 14:57:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 14:57:56 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:57:53 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eteb9h+bsv1@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.10 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: Homo Habilior Worlds: Mar. 14-15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=b2eJlXlr5Ydkt3IRekbXmcK2WG0K1SoLTVzEi1Z-YzS37ILHgw X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 14 (HHW-2) "We can't allow that woman Ayawsiwall to destroy one version of her homeworld for the sake of another," Melisande said. "We have to warn it." "How? Iwarssohn and Ayawsiwall have the transporters." "Can you pilot a transport ship, Popopoyoll?" "No." "I can't either. We'll have to steal the handheld transporter." "But who has it now?" asked Popopoyoll. "Right now it's no use to Ayawsiwall, since she wants to get to my version of the Cambro- Mesican Empire, and she can only travel to your version." 15 (HHW-1) "Everybody stop talking," said Gwenfrewi. The other three stared at her. "If I understand correctly," she said, "My return to the Cambo- Mesican Empire will lead to disaster. Therefore I shall not return. This older version of my friend Tilmassin or his superiors must believe that the timeline can be changed. If they don't, the mission is pointless, you see?" "That might work," Tilmassin conceded. "But how can I be sure that you won't leave?" "You can't leave either. If your mission is successful, you cannot return to your own present, although I don't see why you would want to. You will have to stay here and guard me." "What about your aunt?" Lothilde asked. "She said she would return." "I doubt she will, if she hasn't by now."
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Fri Mar 16 13:04:18 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 5233 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2007 20:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2007 20:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2007 20:04:17 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 20:04:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2007 20:04:04 -0000 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:04:03 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etet7j+lk0@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eteb9h+bsv1@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.158 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Homo Habilior Worlds: Mar. 14-15 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=p66vGddXArSneFLYLf9mVRnPE340eFoVrfjI6UqRJjdt8Rxd5Muu X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@...> wrote: >14 >(HHW-2) >"We can't allow that woman Ayawsiwall to destroy one version of her [snip] >Mesican Empire, and she can only travel to your version." > >15 >(HHW-1) >"Everybody stop talking," said Gwenfrewi. The other three stared at [snip] >"I doubt she will, if she hasn't by now." I can't help wondering what the difference in settings is that makes the line-breaks more readable here on conculture than on the geofiction group?
From llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk Sat Mar 17 04:28:40 2007 Return-Path: <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> X-Sender: llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21803 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2007 11:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2007 11:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.21) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Mar 2007 11:28:39 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n28.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 11:28:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Mar 2007 11:28:21 -0000 Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:28:21 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etgjcl+r6jj@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <etc717+keep@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.21 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 212.219.245.253 From: "Llywelyn Jones" <llywelynjones@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: IB: Local government of England X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=241375212; y=wfelaPvhk-BT11sGCLj3XBy_2jKfB56wwhrF-4Ov7AfnMCxcblD66g X-Yahoo-Profile: llywelynjones What's the status of the Council of the North *there*. It was set up by Richard III, but was dissolved after the Civil War. Does it still exist *there*? (i.e., was it never dissolved?) If it was dissolved *there*, has it been re-instated at some point? Did it ever exist *there* at all?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sun Mar 18 19:44:21 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 8707 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 02:44:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 02:44:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52011.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.27) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 02:44:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 54088 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2007 02:43:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20070319024320.54086.qmail@web52011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: epbFBeMVM1mtDOPwNqNNLRWneu6kx3IZ14pFVmKmJYx1Suyd_HQBAGuLm8RNRuo_Hgd.3u.AjNZtKCZDHwTlOB66xrS94BV7P_JbP5xS8MvU356hUdMtGtQAR9Yc7E8UVm9lafkolUDhIbnmt1YtvylkIVb3D5USA_IZDHuJXsHHzBO_us1kGg-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52011.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:43:20 PDT Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:43:20 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <etee0u+3fkc@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.27 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Local government of England X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=GhpXesVJ-vRicYAC5e-q5T0dPpgSal97zvwMzNo7Gl5p2S0A X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- plikmas <plikma@hotmail.com> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > > > 2) That the Soke of Peterborough and the > Isle > > > of Ely are county > > > corporates within Cambridgeshire; perhaps > the > > > Bishop of Ely has > > > similar (at least ceremonial) powers to the > > > bishop of Durham? > > > > Sounds interesting. What sort of ceremonial > > powers? > > > > I.e. only de jure powers, not de facto ones, a > bit like a the > royal perogative. Opens council meetings, has > some sort of > non-voting seat of office, etc etc. OK. > > > 4) That the Parts of Lincolnshire and the > > > Ridings of Yorkshire have > > > most of the authority expected in a county > > > council with no real seeing > > > for those counties of own councils. > > My main reason for this was it seemed very IB, > having a > very poetic system - for want of a better word > - where > the obsession with rationality for its own sake > hasn't > completely taken over. OK. > > > 5) That the County of London was never > created, > > > but that the > > > Metropolitan Board of Works was created and > > > looks after things such as > > > the Metropolitan Police, the fire service, > > > infrastructure, transport > > > etc etc and was expanded in 1965 to cover > all > > > of *here*'s greater London. > > > > Could go along with that one too. > > > > That one was principally because it was the > only practical > thing I could think of. Not having some sort of > representation > for London would be a little odd IMO especially > for > infrastructure purposes. OK. Makes good sense to me, though I'm not really competent to offer either a strong concur or any sensible argument against the proposals. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sun Mar 18 19:56:43 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 43382 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 02:56:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 02:56:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.26) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 02:56:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 39884 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2007 02:56:38 -0000 Message-ID: <20070319025638.39882.qmail@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: fiJmaGkVM1nKiqODDTcgL3s0QKOS8oiax_K9zTEth27L9Eae.xRBgziOsHWISK6FkYTQ4zilUXlBP6rN8KENEVFFtIPeb8pAAsN_MaYFt5woI2erJjl31wjuS8p2a6ixoxfyDVyWiDoUOdF5LORWM7K1xXlNMB1jylyPsJkMlUk33dFWgh5J12zvidl6uKMq Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:56:38 PDT Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:56:38 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <434440.27763.qm@web60323.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=CPr6nOfy7d0mdvc-tsf56f_In_wHP06JMbG0A7E6my23UO5U X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > --- Geoff Horswood <geoffhorswood@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: > > Another thing I thought of afterwards was how > it > > would > > affect the spread of Islam if one of their > first > > non-Arabian conquests (that of Zoroastrian > Persia) > > didn't happen, or happened to a > less-than-complete > > degree. > > The resulting loss of military confidence > might well > > cause the religion to develop rather > differently, > > and > > to absorb a lot less territory into its core > area. > > Of course, Coptic Egypt and North Africa > initially > > welcomed the Muslims as liberators from the > > oppressive > > rule of Byzantium. But what if a > less-confident > > Islam > > never tried to conquer them, having failed to > take > > over Persia? > > > > In C-a Persia fell as in our world, and so did > Egypt, > but the Egyptians had already thrown out > Byzantium so > they looked on Islam as a foreign oppressor > destroying > their brand new independence rather than > lireators. > Revolts were frequent and the refugees stirred > up > Carthage to resist. The resistance meant much > harsher > rule and continued defiance. Egypt held on to > the > Coptic language and Coptic Orthodoxy. Carthage > held > on to Carrajina and Donatism. Here's Morroco > is a > real mixed bag. Islam did not spread south > into the > Sahara. During the Cursade period all of North > Africa > experienced periodic revolts which were > eventually > successful. That made the Reconquista in a > fractured > Spain much easier. I was reviewing some notes and it turns out that Arabia as well as some parts of Persia, in the World, are Baptists (not Christian Baptists, but John the Baptiser Baptists). "In Arabia, in later centuries, an ardent convert to Baptism was Mohamat and he would compose a new gospel, the Gospel of the Baptist to the Arabs which would bequeathe to Baptism a particularly Arabian flavour." It seems that this Baptism gave rise to both Christianity and it lesser sibling Iscariotism, which holds that Judas Iscariot and Judas Thomas (Jesus's twin) are the same person and that Judas and Jesus both are coredemptors. Until recently, Egypt was still a Roman holding, but is now probably about all that's left of the western Roman Empire. Carthage is undoubtedly drooling over the prospects, though they would do better to look west towards Mauretania. Padraic > Adam Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From carrajena@yahoo.com Sun Mar 18 20:33:20 2007 Return-Path: <carrajena@yahoo.com> X-Sender: carrajena@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13810 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 03:33:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 03:33:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web60318.mail.yahoo.com) (209.73.178.126) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 03:33:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 76315 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2007 03:33:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rPsLSzwVM1mcmbrYLluIfVRlo3IMwdEquowr0SLl9i0rzdW.27i.4qkLCEBQAGLnEVy5FtWA2rM03e48U.B3VA5E8bFhJmUfFxri_Zkh78Tpq_D6LxYmgyn59E_CgqbT1fbpYzT4YbmWjwH24x2a7b8- Received: from [70.251.144.202] by web60318.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:33:06 PDT Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:33:06 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20070319025638.39882.qmail@web52010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <98662.76155.qm@web60318.mail.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 209.73.178.126 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=136823209; y=DJkj5Q_OHfV9EAeELbQHRMJAAuwyQnwIjFMPoAJHfRGG6BcC X-Yahoo-Profile: carrajena --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > In C-a Persia fell as in our world, and so did > > Egypt, > > but the Egyptians had already thrown out > > Byzantium so > > they looked on Islam as a foreign oppressor > > destroying > > their brand new independence rather than > > lireators. > > Revolts were frequent and the refugees stirred > > up > > Carthage to resist. The resistance meant much > > harsher > > rule and continued defiance. Egypt held on to > > the > > Coptic language and Coptic Orthodoxy. Carthage > > held > > on to Carrajina and Donatism. Here's Morroco > > is a > > real mixed bag. Islam did not spread south > > into the > > Sahara. During the Cursade period all of North > > Africa > > experienced periodic revolts which were > > eventually > > successful. That made the Reconquista in a > > fractured > > Spain much easier. > > I was reviewing some notes and it turns out that > Arabia as well as some parts of Persia, in the > World, are Baptists (not Christian Baptists, but > John the Baptiser Baptists). "In Arabia, in later > centuries, an ardent convert to Baptism was > Mohamat and he would compose a new gospel, the > Gospel of the Baptist to the Arabs which would > bequeathe to Baptism a particularly Arabian > flavour." It seems that this Baptism gave rise to > both Christianity and it lesser sibling > Iscariotism, which holds that Judas Iscariot and > Judas Thomas (Jesus's twin) are the same person > and that Judas and Jesus both are coredemptors. > > Until recently, Egypt was still a Roman holding, > but is now probably about all that's left of the > western Roman Empire. Carthage is undoubtedly > drooling over the prospects, though they would do > better to look west towards Mauretania. > > Padraic Interesting oddities. Who on earth is Judas Thomas? Does he exist *here*? So Egypt is Roman, but Rome no longer is? *puzzled* In C-a, I know that Egypt is Coptic-speaking, and Carthage is Carrajina-speaking, but I have yet to learn what languages are spoken in Chirinaga (Cyrene) and Maridan~a (Morocco). I suspect that Morocco speaks a berber lang (or several). I know the area south of C-a speaks Tamazight. Chirinaga is the real puzzle. I've thought about a deviant dialect of C-a. I've thought about Coptic. I've thought about Arabic. I've thought about Greek. I just don't know what to do with the area. Adam 11 Ed ingredjandu ad il bedi, videruns al credura simu al Maja, il seu marri; ad caderuns ed adoruns sivi, ed abriruns uls sustrus tesorus ed eviruns al jura, ul crisu djul Livanunu, ed murra. Machu 2:11
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 07:30:17 2007 Return-Path: <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 45472 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 14:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 14:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.51) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 14:30:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n22.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 14:29:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 14:29:57 -0000 X-Sender: kode_conlangs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 16967 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2007 04:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 Mar 2007 04:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.26) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2007 04:42:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n32.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2007 04:42:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2007 04:42:51 -0000 Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 04:42:50 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etig0a+p75s@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.26 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 208.54.15.1 From: "Peter Ara Guekguezian" <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Subject: IB: Wishing to join the enterprise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=300122342; y=doSjyV5j7GzQZykH3O3edqUwJwiq_J3rWyL4UKZXmBk99vg6x7D10A X-Yahoo-Profile: kode_conlangs X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 19 Mar 2007 14:29:56 -0000 I ran across IB several months ago, probably from a link on the ZBB. I really loved what I saw, but put it on the backburner for the time being. Last month or so, I rekindled my interest in IB, and the more I read, the deeper I fall in love with it. My favorite areas are the languages, the maps, and the history, but the culture, religion, flag/emblem and famous personality parts of IB are intriguing as well. I would like to focus on North America and the Middle East, but am glad to help with any region. I find Oregon, Montrei, and the NAL- SLC among the most appealing countries, but the RTC, Armorica, the FK, Lebanon, Judaea, Ethiopia and Japan are also up there IMO. Of course, the project as a whole is just so staggering awesome that I can't help but offer my mind as a sacrifice to build up this edifice. *wipes drool off floor* Okay, so I'm really psyched. As far as a potential personal contribution goes, I've been thinking of developing the medieval Armenian kingdom of Cilicia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilicia ; the page kinda sucks, but it has some links). I figure Cilicia would offer itself to the Crusaders as a base for their operations in the Levant. I understand that the Crusades apparently are longer *there* than *here*. Cilicia could play a role in that, as well as in the eventual end of the Crusades. After the ruling class gets heavily Europeanized/Catholicized, the Armenian peasants and apostolic clergy would chafe under their presence, and eventually rebel. If the Armenians allied with the Judaeans, the Lebanese Druze, and maybe the Assyrians, the 'Alawites, and some other assorted Arabs, they could probably kick out the Crusaders around maybe the 15th centuries. Of course, they would fall to squabbling, and the Ottomans would extend their empire over them. Cilicia would be in the same position as Lebanon and Judaea as regards relation with the Empire. As Armenian nationalism would have played a role in kicking out the Crusaders and establishing a (short- lived) state, they would probably succeed in resisting Turkification of their area. After the First Great War, they'd probably try to carve up some of Turkey; when the Turks respond with their ultimatum against the Armenians and Kurds (and presumably other such minorities in the vicinity), many Armenians would go southwest to Cilicia, as well as those going east to (previously Russian controlled?) Armenia. There would probably exist (and have existed) some tension between Cilician Armenians who were oriented toward the Levant and Caucasian-ward Armenians who were oriented more toward Persia and Russia. There could be both a language and a religious split there. Eastern Armenia could become SNOR-ist, while Cilicia would be in line with Judaea and Lebanon (and perhaps Syria and/or Kurdistan). I've got more ideas, but I'll wait for a little feedback before I post more. BTW, I'm an alright conlanger, not as good as conculturing, but excelling in maps. Like I said above, I'd really love to commit to this project, even if only as a question asker at first.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 08:04:32 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 81951 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 15:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 15:04:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52006.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.253) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 15:04:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 82215 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2007 15:04:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20070319150425.82213.qmail@web52006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: F3Wnm9AVM1nPC3Yvvf_iACAfpjKborMZDD6N6Sl3Mgeb2XWK8JJ0wfUsKbHaJjJ4k3JlOghpgLWkStaG2YcZkTepRhymk9Wu1ImpkTJn.uDsbYDTM92YmHI.kWTQVJHhTIhwYOjbaetT3AerBnTx4Q9r4cdvm7qwQyqmT5GAP3YrLpiK9RI2w3DdqRlvwLWQ Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52006.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:04:25 PDT Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:04:25 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <etig0a+p75s@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.253 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Wishing to join the enterprise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=DJP0zl81glP1IIuNJo9SjVpWyvMLCp3a5zUZF4e-X4gkiLeQ X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Peter Ara Guekguezian <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> wrote: > I ran across IB several months ago, probably > from a link on the ZBB. > I really loved what I saw, but put it on the > backburner for the time being. Welcome back! > Last month or so, I rekindled my interest in > IB, and the more I > read, the deeper I fall in love with it. Thank you! All those of us who have been working on IB for a while are here for the same reason. > My favorite areas are the > languages, the maps, and the history, but the > culture, religion, > flag/emblem and famous personality parts of IB > are intriguing as well. I'm the principal person in the religious aspect of IB, concentrating on the Catholic Church and several smaller religious movements. As I'm sure you're aware, there are several currents indigenous to IB that don't exist *here*. Your input (as a question asker) would certainly be welcome and is solicited. If at some point you feel like contributing, then that would be welcome as well. > I would like to focus on North America and the > Middle East, but am > glad to help with any region. I find Oregon, > Montrei, and the NAL- > SLC among the most appealing countries, but the > RTC, Armorica, the > FK, Lebanon, Judaea, Ethiopia and Japan are > also up there IMO. The NAL has been one of our more interesting endeavours. It started out as a mere suggestion, and has ended up becoming one of our better explored places. There are a lot of us involved in the NAL (I'm interested mostly in the transportation systems and in the provinces of Ter Mair and Virginia and the non-provincial mass known as the Unincorporated Territory). > Of course, the project as a whole is just so > staggering awesome that I > can't help but offer my mind as a sacrifice to > build up this edifice. If you haven't yet, please visit www.bethisad.com -- there are some things there you should read that describe our overall philosophy. In addition, on the wiki there is a section called "How It All Works" which contains some of the above as well as some other material of interest. For historical perspective, you might be interested in www.bethisad.com/list.htm -- the list of our offical and declared participants. Looks like you'll be enrolled there before too long! > *wipes drool off floor* > > Okay, so I'm really psyched. As far as a > potential personal > contribution goes, I've been thinking of > developing the medieval > Armenian kingdom of Cilicia Cool. Very little of IB before the 20th century has been explored. So this is charting some unknown waters. > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilicia ; > the page kinda sucks, but it has some links). I > figure Cilicia would > offer itself to the Crusaders as a base for > their operations in the > Levant. I understand that the Crusades > apparently are longer *there* > than *here*. Cilicia could play a role in that, > as well as in the > eventual end of the Crusades. After the ruling > class gets heavily > Europeanized/Catholicized, the Armenian > peasants and apostolic > clergy would chafe under their presence, and > eventually rebel. If > the Armenians allied with the Judaeans, the > Lebanese Druze, and > maybe the Assyrians, the 'Alawites, and some > other assorted Arabs, > they could probably kick out the Crusaders > around maybe the 15th > centuries. Of course, they would fall to > squabbling, and the > Ottomans would extend their empire over them. You'll want to put yourself in contact with Steg and the others who have been working on the middle East. > Cilicia would be in the same position as > Lebanon and Judaea as > regards relation with the Empire. As Armenian > nationalism would have > played a role in kicking out the Crusaders and > establishing a (short- > lived) state, they would probably succeed in > resisting Turkification > of their area. After the First Great War, > they'd probably try to > carve up some of Turkey; when the Turks respond > with their ultimatum > against the Armenians and Kurds (and presumably > other such > minorities in the vicinity), many Armenians > would go southwest to > Cilicia, as well as those going east to > (previously Russian > controlled?) Armenia. There would probably > exist (and have existed) > some tension between Cilician Armenians who > were oriented toward the > Levant and Caucasian-ward Armenians who were > oriented more toward > Persia and Russia. There could be both a > language and a religious > split there. Eastern Armenia could become > SNOR-ist, while Cilicia > would be in line with Judaea and Lebanon (and > perhaps Syria and/or > Kurdistan). > > I've got more ideas, but I'll wait for a little > feedback before I post more. Fine. We're going on ten years now, and there's a lot of stuff to learn (and sometimes relearn, as we've found it's very easy to forget what's factual and what isn't). > BTW, I'm an alright conlanger, not as good as > conculturing, but excelling in maps. We can never have too many maps. There are a couple atlases floating around, one resides at bethisad.com, the other can be linked from there. There are other maps on the wiki, and even a few hard copy maps to be found. > Like I said above, I'd really > love to commit to this project, even if only as > a question asker at first. Take your time and ease in to it! Discussions take place both here and on the wiki; and while we've been a bit quiet of late, such lulls are generally interspersed with periods of great activity and creativity. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Mon Mar 19 11:28:14 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 93913 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 18:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 18:28:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.111) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 18:28:11 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n12.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 18:27:44 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 18:27:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 18:27:44 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:27:42 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etmkmu+kjre@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <etig0a+p75s@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.111 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.161.236 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: IB: Wishing to join the enterprise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=X4ECoKv9G75tvUNygAMlgIdIPBRsh2xqbOLHn-5ygK15FINjbmnL X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno Welcome to this enterprise. Your ideas about Cilicia sound cool. It would be great to have more people working on the Middle East *there*. And definetely there's much work to do before the 20th century. Pedro Moderno --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ara Guekguezian" <kode_conlangs@...> wrote: > > I ran across IB several months ago, probably from a link on the ZBB. > I really loved what I saw, but put it on the backburner for the time > being. > > Last month or so, I rekindled my interest in IB, and the more I > read, the deeper I fall in love with it. My favorite areas are the > languages, the maps, and the history, but the culture, religion, > flag/emblem and famous personality parts of IB are intriguing as > well. > > I would like to focus on North America and the Middle East, but am > glad to help with any region. I find Oregon, Montrei, and the NAL- > SLC among the most appealing countries, but the RTC, Armorica, the > FK, Lebanon, Judaea, Ethiopia and Japan are also up there IMO. Of > course, the project as a whole is just so staggering awesome that I > can't help but offer my mind as a sacrifice to build up this edifice. > > > *wipes drool off floor* > > Okay, so I'm really psyched. As far as a potential personal > contribution goes, I've been thinking of developing the medieval > Armenian kingdom of Cilicia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilicia ; > the page kinda sucks, but it has some links). I figure Cilicia would > offer itself to the Crusaders as a base for their operations in the > Levant. I understand that the Crusades apparently are longer *there* > than *here*. Cilicia could play a role in that, as well as in the > eventual end of the Crusades. After the ruling class gets heavily > Europeanized/Catholicized, the Armenian peasants and apostolic > clergy would chafe under their presence, and eventually rebel. If > the Armenians allied with the Judaeans, the Lebanese Druze, and > maybe the Assyrians, the 'Alawites, and some other assorted Arabs, > they could probably kick out the Crusaders around maybe the 15th > centuries. Of course, they would fall to squabbling, and the > Ottomans would extend their empire over them. > > Cilicia would be in the same position as Lebanon and Judaea as > regards relation with the Empire. As Armenian nationalism would have > played a role in kicking out the Crusaders and establishing a (short- > lived) state, they would probably succeed in resisting Turkification > of their area. After the First Great War, they'd probably try to > carve up some of Turkey; when the Turks respond with their ultimatum > against the Armenians and Kurds (and presumably other such > minorities in the vicinity), many Armenians would go southwest to > Cilicia, as well as those going east to (previously Russian > controlled?) Armenia. There would probably exist (and have existed) > some tension between Cilician Armenians who were oriented toward the > Levant and Caucasian-ward Armenians who were oriented more toward > Persia and Russia. There could be both a language and a religious > split there. Eastern Armenia could become SNOR-ist, while Cilicia > would be in line with Judaea and Lebanon (and perhaps Syria and/or > Kurdistan). > > I've got more ideas, but I'll wait for a little feedback before I > post more. BTW, I'm an alright conlanger, not as good as > conculturing, but excelling in maps. Like I said above, I'd really > love to commit to this project, even if only as a question asker at > first. >
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Mon Mar 19 11:47:01 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 13244 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 18:46:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 18:46:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.216) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 18:46:33 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 18:45:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 18:45:47 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.86] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 18:45:47 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:45:46 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etmloq+3u2b@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <esnm0j+84es@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.216 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.161.236 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Re: IB: de-proposing X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=O-vsBLy7To286jRjxN2QIaUlm976gE7GG2NuZzsXkFSSBs0HfGwL X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno As no one was against making facts the referred articles (see below) I will remove the proposal tag. Anyway if in the future someone finds anything wrong with the articles be free to re-open the discussion. Pedro Moderno --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> wrote: > > Hi everybody! > What you think about de-proposing (and upgrading them to facts)the > following articles? > > Faisal I > http://ib.frath.net/w/Faisal_I > > Ghazi I > http://ib.frath.net/w/Ghazi_I > > Ibrahim bin Hussayn > http://ib.frath.net/w/Ibrahim_bin_Hussayn > > Faisal II > http://ib.frath.net/w/Faisal_II > > > Pedro Moderno >
From pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br Mon Mar 19 12:08:08 2007 Return-Path: <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> X-Sender: pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55977 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 19:08:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 19:08:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.135) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 19:08:08 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n20.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 19:07:35 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 19:07:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2007 19:07:35 -0000 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:07:35 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etmn1n+blf6@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.135 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 87.196.161.236 From: "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> Subject: Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=260145980; y=sVhlUxoOF_YbVm_kWZIo0Vfy4DnoJSQKFxPzVeotN5FLeSArBj9I X-Yahoo-Profile: pedromoderno Hi everybody! I was wondering, 1-what are the major sources of energy for car engines in IB? 2-Which are the major car producers *there*? (I'm referring both to countries and car brands) 3-Does car industry in IB has local particularities depending on country, continent or so? I was thinking about this as it could be analogous somehow to car industry *here* (large cars in North America, the tiny kei-cars in Japan, "haut couture" design for italian cars, etc) 4-Do people in IB drive in the right or in the left side of the road? 5-which are the most important car exhibbitions *there*? Pedro Moderno
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 14:06:32 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 74882 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 21:06:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 21:06:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.57) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 21:06:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 83641 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Mar 2007 21:06:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20070319210630.83639.qmail@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 0NOqkz0VM1kOzJaXaCe2m23Ws4t2BsYn0CuafGkgOolij65TEpAYVTFumxeclbvonr5sraFm0zHiMWZzsHccLrrs3M97YZrFvN1A17TfHabNNFE6lPXedx0nWoQOIAJXsrTW8r3obaoNisBbuEPaCpLwrxVGbhUpJE9j.iyRUaDbD_kCDdbMbQ-- Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:06:30 PDT Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:06:30 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <etmn1n+blf6@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.57 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=calfgcEoFSs3s2t55RE4WJ8yIwQWefy6iZ4QTGz76i1GJ81J X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Pedro Moderno <pedromoderno@yahoo.com.br> wrote: > Hi everybody! > > I was wondering, > 1-what are the major sources of energy for car > engines in IB? Probably the same general spectrum as *here*. One might suspect more diversity, but petrol and diesel are probably large percentages. Electricity was a common source of energy for very early cars *here* -- perhaps the petrol engine never caught on so well or is so ubiquitous *there*? I suspect that places like Dalmatia and the FK and the NAL where electricity is essentially free or very low cost, electric cars are more prevalent than any other kind. > 2-Which are the major car producers *there*? > (I'm referring both to > countries and car brands) In the FK, I think we have RR and J; the Morris auto company is there as well. > 3-Does car industry in IB has local > particularities depending on > country, continent or so? I was thinking about > this as it could be > analogous somehow to car industry *here* (large > cars in North America, Almost certainly not. The auto industry and the automobile as modes of transport *there* are not as pervasive as *here* -- no "two cars in every garage (one each for Mom and Dad, plus one for each kid plus Dad's project car) and an RV to the side and and an SUV or two for weekend fun plus the motorbikes and ATVs for the whole family" sort of mentality we've got *here*. An average American family might have one car; many probably don't have one, especially in town. > the tiny kei-cars in Japan, "haut couture" > design for italian cars, > etc) > 4-Do people in IB drive in the right or in the > left side of the road? The only correct side is the right side, which is of course, the left side of the road. Foreign Parts may vary. The NAL (as does the rest of the Commonwealth) drives on the left side of the road -- it remains to be seen what happens at the border with Louisianna, Oregon, A-C and Montrei! > 5-which are the most important car exhibbitions > *there*? Padraic > > Pedro Moderno > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out > the enhanced email design. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/kOt0.A/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/RF7qlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From draqonfayir@juno.com Mon Mar 19 14:52:17 2007 Return-Path: <draqonfayir@juno.com> X-Sender: draqonfayir@juno.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 55592 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 21:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 21:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 21:52:17 -0000 Received: from [24.199.89.32] (helo=[192.168.0.102]) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HTPm4-0008QI-2V for conculture@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:52:16 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070319210630.83639.qmail@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20070319210630.83639.qmail@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <EB1F391A-51D0-4F3A-B736-516B60A7FDD8@juno.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:52:13 -0400 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-ELNK-Trace: 28f350e158e2897e776432462e451d7bd15d05d9470ff710bbf79bda4593fdc0714db1ff5ed99ca9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@juno.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2152659; y=NnCS23RCdi9tMwaS5jOdw4-tQ__k6v8VkUp3Fyk0ZRrvt0m-FxES X-Yahoo-Profile: boroparkpyro On Mar 19, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Padraic Brown wrote: > The NAL (as does the rest of the Commonwealth) > drives on the left side of the road -- it remains > to be seen what happens at the border with > Louisianna, Oregon, A-C and Montrei! Remember when i suggested that the North American nations *there* have license plates according to *here*'s North American style, and Louisiana insisted on having *here's* European styling instead? Yeah, i imagine something like that. ;-) -Stephen (Steg)
From draqonfayir@juno.com Mon Mar 19 14:52:42 2007 Return-Path: <draqonfayir@juno.com> X-Sender: draqonfayir@juno.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22069 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2007 21:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Mar 2007 21:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net) (209.86.89.68) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 21:52:41 -0000 Received: from [24.199.89.32] (helo=[192.168.0.102]) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1HTPm5-0008QI-U7 for conculture@yahoogroups.com; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:52:18 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <etmkmu+kjre@eGroups.com> References: <etmkmu+kjre@eGroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <643C0295-D5ED-4DE0-8BF4-BAB06EC86BCC@juno.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:52:14 -0400 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-ELNK-Trace: 28f350e158e2897e776432462e451d7bd15d05d9470ff710598390d0507d3d90523a96521d317441350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.89.68 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@juno.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Wishing to join the enterprise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=2152659; y=2_C0oMwHQVtOas1_4jyVnZ-cMSR5WzMH5wY1FDHLvFhhBQToThsH X-Yahoo-Profile: boroparkpyro More people on the Middle East is really good, since i came up with some basic ideas a while ago and haven't really been so active since. -Stephen (Steg) On Mar 19, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Pedro Moderno wrote: > Welcome to this enterprise. > Your ideas about Cilicia sound cool. It would be great to have more > people working on the Middle East *there*. And definetely there's > much work to do before the 20th century. > > Pedro Moderno > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ara Guekguezian" > <kode_conlangs@...> wrote: >> >> I ran across IB several months ago, probably from a link on the > ZBB. >> I really loved what I saw, but put it on the backburner for the > time >> being. >> >> Last month or so, I rekindled my interest in IB, and the more I >> read, the deeper I fall in love with it. My favorite areas are the >> languages, the maps, and the history, but the culture, religion, >> flag/emblem and famous personality parts of IB are intriguing as >> well. >> >> I would like to focus on North America and the Middle East, but am >> glad to help with any region. I find Oregon, Montrei, and the NAL- >> SLC among the most appealing countries, but the RTC, Armorica, the >> FK, Lebanon, Judaea, Ethiopia and Japan are also up there IMO. Of >> course, the project as a whole is just so staggering awesome that > I >> can't help but offer my mind as a sacrifice to build up this > edifice. >> >> >> *wipes drool off floor* >> >> Okay, so I'm really psyched. As far as a potential personal >> contribution goes, I've been thinking of developing the medieval >> Armenian kingdom of Cilicia > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilicia ; >> the page kinda sucks, but it has some links). I figure Cilicia > would >> offer itself to the Crusaders as a base for their operations in > the >> Levant. I understand that the Crusades apparently are longer > *there* >> than *here*. Cilicia could play a role in that, as well as in the >> eventual end of the Crusades. After the ruling class gets heavily >> Europeanized/Catholicized, the Armenian peasants and apostolic >> clergy would chafe under their presence, and eventually rebel. If >> the Armenians allied with the Judaeans, the Lebanese Druze, and >> maybe the Assyrians, the 'Alawites, and some other assorted Arabs, >> they could probably kick out the Crusaders around maybe the 15th >> centuries. Of course, they would fall to squabbling, and the >> Ottomans would extend their empire over them. >> >> Cilicia would be in the same position as Lebanon and Judaea as >> regards relation with the Empire. As Armenian nationalism would > have >> played a role in kicking out the Crusaders and establishing a > (short- >> lived) state, they would probably succeed in resisting > Turkification >> of their area. After the First Great War, they'd probably try to >> carve up some of Turkey; when the Turks respond with their > ultimatum >> against the Armenians and Kurds (and presumably other such >> minorities in the vicinity), many Armenians would go southwest to >> Cilicia, as well as those going east to (previously Russian >> controlled?) Armenia. There would probably exist (and have > existed) >> some tension between Cilician Armenians who were oriented toward > the >> Levant and Caucasian-ward Armenians who were oriented more toward >> Persia and Russia. There could be both a language and a religious >> split there. Eastern Armenia could become SNOR-ist, while Cilicia >> would be in line with Judaea and Lebanon (and perhaps Syria and/or >> Kurdistan). >> >> I've got more ideas, but I'll wait for a little feedback before I >> post more. BTW, I'm an alright conlanger, not as good as >> conculturing, but excelling in maps. Like I said above, I'd really >> love to commit to this project, even if only as a question asker > at >> first. >> > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- > ~--> > See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/0It09A/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/RF7qlB/TM > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 18:52:18 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11235 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 01:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 01:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52009.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.58) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 01:52:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 3083 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2007 01:52:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20070320015200.3065.qmail@web52009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: KtaCxRgVM1k8TVB1qZtaFkEf33ExORrB_Xnry6jOITS32Jg5k_64Rx2DqNA7yBzsDY.z8IrsoXYGBTu9my9ehdc36lGh9iJcJChHI13SlY.QMXFpDEbfIbbAuxXVOdZjTzf7.5E3i0CrLuQ5k9_QIpZhvpdtgax_iUapcP8ioVXZ6KI0bdS3xg-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52009.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:52:00 PDT Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:52:00 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <EB1F391A-51D0-4F3A-B736-516B60A7FDD8@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.58 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=duMzaWU5y3UFDv5j4Q77_nntxiimayo_dulRpPzCTbzdEpBz X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@juno.com> wrote: > On Mar 19, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Padraic Brown > wrote: > > The NAL (as does the rest of the > Commonwealth) > > drives on the left side of the road -- it > remains > > to be seen what happens at the border with > > Louisianna, Oregon, A-C and Montrei! > > > Remember when i suggested that the North > American nations *there* > have license plates according to *here*'s North > American style, and > Louisiana insisted on having *here's* European > styling instead? > Yeah, i imagine something like that. ;-) "I'll tell thee this, Larry King, it's all a Loozianan conspiracy to interfere with our trade rights! Why, them and their blue space alien allies from Mars with their godless left-hand drive lorries, and their heathen drive on the right highways!" I bet the interchanges around St. Louis make the Mixing Bowl look like child's play. There must be warning signs at the border like "WARNING: ENTERING RIGHTHAND DRIVE ZONE -- BE ALERT FOR TRAFFIC ENTERING FROM THE RIGHT!" > -Stephen (Steg) Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 10:07:16 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83248 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 17:07:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 17:07:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.101) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 17:07:14 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n9.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:07:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:07:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:07:01 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:06:59 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etp4bj+udef@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <etmn1n+blf6@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.101 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=AJ5RtykQB2D57Tve82eyJJPvOEbUjhW20OqWQp4_7WBrk8jA X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@...> wrote: > > Hi everybody! > > I was wondering, > 1-what are the major sources of energy for car engines in IB? > 2-Which are the major car producers *there*? (I'm referring both to > countries and car brands) > 3-Does car industry in IB has local particularities depending on > country, continent or so? I was thinking about this as it could be > analogous somehow to car industry *here* (large cars in North America, > the tiny kei-cars in Japan, "haut couture" design for italian cars, > etc) > 4-Do people in IB drive in the right or in the left side of the road? > 5-which are the most important car exhibbitions *there*? > > Pedro Moderno > 1. Gasoline, of course. Ethanol maybe. 2. Doris Motorworks in Louisianna is a big producer of cars. 3. I'm thinking that LA would possibly cooperate with the NAL, but then again, it might not, just to be contrary. Purely logistically, and for right now, i'll say that they DO drive on the LEFT.
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 10:10:32 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22735 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 17:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 17:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.46) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 17:10:32 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n17.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:08:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Mar 2007 17:08:22 -0000 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:08:20 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etp4e4+6e69@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <etp4bj+udef@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.46 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=4u-eQziqQxBQazSxMrlD0g8RfNHqXmT2rgAhMNFiGbp4FQhi X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Pedro Moderno" <pedromoderno@> > wrote: > > > > Hi everybody! > > > > I was wondering, > > 1-what are the major sources of energy for car engines in IB? > > 2-Which are the major car producers *there*? (I'm referring both to > > countries and car brands) > > 3-Does car industry in IB has local particularities depending on > > country, continent or so? I was thinking about this as it could be > > analogous somehow to car industry *here* (large cars in North America, > > the tiny kei-cars in Japan, "haut couture" design for italian cars, > > etc) > > 4-Do people in IB drive in the right or in the left side of the road? > > 5-which are the most important car exhibbitions *there*? > > > > Pedro Moderno > > > > 1. Gasoline, of course. Ethanol maybe. > 2. Doris Motorworks in Louisianna is a big producer of cars. > 3. I'm thinking that LA would possibly cooperate with the NAL, but > then again, it might not, just to be contrary. Purely logistically, > and for right now, i'll say that they DO drive on the LEFT. > Okay...maybe not. Unless Padraic is set on us Frogs driving on the right, we might just conform with our neighbors.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 20:23:46 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 83449 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 03:23:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 03:23:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.57) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 03:23:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 19849 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2007 03:21:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20070321032144.19845.qmail@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 10apJOUVM1lcBF5zsRWpbODZO1QaboLGkyNiDsc6ImtaLdBVtG03.QaNtQiw7f1EXg-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:21:44 PDT Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:21:44 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <etp4e4+6e69@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.57 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=pleIsRvCTGuzWeXBD_W27pHnCXPvOJ1bch4V_XsttjxBA4o3 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> wrote: > Okay...maybe not. Unless Padraic is set on us > Frogs driving on the > right, we might just conform with our > neighbors. It probably doesn't matter, though it would be quite fun if they followed the French lead and drive on the right. Sessions will complain no matter what LA does, so they might as well do it anyway! Padraic > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new > email design. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/hOt0.A/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/RF7qlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > (Yahoo! ID required) > > mailto:conculture-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com > > > Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 09:32:06 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49093 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 16:32:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m41.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 16:32:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.225) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 16:32:06 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2007 16:31:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2007 16:31:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.79] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2007 16:31:10 -0000 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 16:31:08 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etrmkc+bi6h@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070321032144.19845.qmail@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.225 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=hwF0g2pIKZo14F3pRfTz3R3fNptA5HkB8lWDXREXxrn7VzJJ X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > > > > Okay...maybe not. Unless Padraic is set on us > > Frogs driving on the > > right, we might just conform with our > > neighbors. > > It probably doesn't matter, though it would be > quite fun if they followed the French lead and > drive on the right. Sessions will complain no > matter what LA does, so they might as well do it > anyway! Chalk it up to cantakerousness against their "oppressors" the NAL. But I'm sure there's a growing movement in the border cities to stop the insanity...especially when there's a road-building project proposed...
From Wayne.Chevrier@gmail.com Wed Mar 21 09:32:37 2007 Return-Path: <wayne.chevrier@gmail.com> Received: (qmail 53462 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2007 16:32:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2007 16:32:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.206) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Mar 2007 16:32:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2007 16:29:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.87] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2007 16:29:30 -0000 X-Sender: wayne.chevrier@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 58398 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2007 18:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2007 18:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nz-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.162.224) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2007 18:55:19 -0000 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k1so903173nzf for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:48:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Je0JKmyOJr/3molZS9Zz6q4h01FN443OIkc3h1ELMm6PFefoYe/FeUFLMZ+o+52i8IpvZvFpVVHEmcKdzD4T9Wd7s3AWmGx5TVgIFmvYFh6ziba0twJnFZUmiSIOZwj9uxyHVcDEEsW9Eae0Hjj6ZJIQkKx8E45/+zddzHCIzdg= Received: by 10.35.91.10 with SMTP id t10mr10869642pyl.1174416497583; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.35.8.4 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <43ac71730703201148n4b75f46fk2b4971de4d3c2317@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:48:17 -0700 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <EB1F391A-51D0-4F3A-B736-516B60A7FDD8@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_39009_19305846.1174416497518" References: <20070319210630.83639.qmail@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <EB1F391A-51D0-4F3A-B736-516B60A7FDD8@juno.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.162.224 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Wayne Chevrier" <Wayne.Chevrier@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=301874480; y=McV63oTu4Ncpl9bVUHWGaoGDw03bBx-NxNfdL4XkvdyKro5sy9hGHlQ X-Yahoo-Profile: wayne.chevrier X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 21 Mar 2007 16:29:29 -0000 ------=_Part_39009_19305846.1174416497518 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
 Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@juno.com> nevesht:

On Mar 19, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Padraic Brown wrote: > The NAL (as does the rest of the Commonwealth) > drives on the left side of the road -- it remains > to be seen what happens at the border with > Louisianna, Oregon, A-C and Montrei! Remember when i suggested that the North American nations *there* have license plates according to *here*'s North American style, and Louisiana insisted on having *here's* European styling instead? Yeah, i imagine something like that. ;-)

Oregon, Alyaska, and Kanawiki drive on the left like Japan. I suspect Montrei, A-C, and Louisianne drive on the right, like Europe.

-Stephen (Steg)


-- --Wayne Chevrier ------=_Part_39009_19305846.1174416497518--
From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 21 20:42:57 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 75995 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 03:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m49.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 03:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ug-out-1314.google.com) (66.249.92.171) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 03:42:55 -0000 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id m2so562034uge for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:42:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=b3/cWeWCRCe5tAke8jXjDThyCtlrYa7Sch/JKdFdrCcMVN84Fl/7ej18l6vd7jPsem3QvYm74ZSjy7ufRDEvjNicB1G6MBEZpSmWibCRynuGL1ocIhiTxutiwxd2/yn9qzy74ltfrdQu1IxB7TP6iQmF4kmAt5/FSRlBnDXqEMI= Received: by 10.115.23.12 with SMTP id a12mr428361waj.1174534974537; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.135.19 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7b9d11410703212042y84ee59bp8ef016e4581f54f5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:42:54 -0700 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <43ac71730703201148n4b75f46fk2b4971de4d3c2317@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20070319210630.83639.qmail@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <EB1F391A-51D0-4F3A-B736-516B60A7FDD8@juno.com> <43ac71730703201148n4b75f46fk2b4971de4d3c2317@mail.gmail.com> X-Originating-IP: 66.249.92.171 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=Og9xTpcdmB2NS6kbas3YFdPfBTAl1g-AcSJrplbVgTuzEkwP X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 3/20/07, Wayne Chevrier <Wayne.Chevrier@gmail.com> wrote: > Oregon, Alyaska, and Kanawiki drive on the left like Japan. I suspect Montrei, A-C, and Louisianne drive on the right, like Europe. AC and Montrei would probably go with whatever Louisianne does, as it's their biggest neighbor, and I suspect it would've helped start up the technology there. I'm imagining though that at border crossings with countries that drive opposite each other, that at least on the major roads, there would be some sort of "twist" which would shift the road over to the correct lane for the direction one is travelling: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/429985375_69194261cd_o.jpg That's a quick drawing, but a more detailed description would be, that the road crosses over itself at the border. There would be plenty of time to make the crossing, sort of like how highway entrances have onramps. One side would either dip below the road level to pass under, or maybe there would be a small bridge crossing over the other lane. Of course, I imagine for smaller more rural roads you sort of do whatever, perhaps?
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Thu Mar 22 12:41:27 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6674 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 19:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 19:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.8) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 19:41:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 19:41:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t4.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 19:41:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:41:17 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etum4t+6t04@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.8 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 12.160.33.128 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Devout Villagers Defy Villainous Declaration X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=6NmtJSYsCpFfl9FWuMFJSQ0On5OVSAbInqJCTwJ6zwR50ggo X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur MOSCOW (IBAP) - A hundred residents of a Russian village have flatly refused to comply with the newly declared passport laws of Russia. Unlike other groups, this is not done in defiance of the current regime, but rather the belief that the documents' bar codes are filled with satanic symbols, the state news network reported. "We believe these new passports are sinful," Valentina Yepifanova, an elderly resident of the village Bogolyubovo, said as she clutched an old, tattered passport she said she wanted to keep. "Our patron saint, Sankt-Porfiri warned us of the evils that would come...this is one of them, and I will not allow the devil into my home. They have these bar codes and people say they contain three sixes. We are against that." Some residents of Bogolyubovo, which means "God-loving" in Russian, have also stopped collecting their pensions at the local post office because the payment slips also have bar codes that might contain the mark of the devil. Bogolyubovo became a focus of interest during the reign of former premier Porfiri Bogolyubov, and has since been a site for pilgrimages, as it is rumored that his bones are buried within the city limits.
From plikma@hotmail.com Thu Mar 22 14:03:04 2007 Return-Path: <plikma@hotmail.com> X-Sender: plikma@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89997 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2007 21:03:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2007 21:03:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.54) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Mar 2007 21:03:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 21:02:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.75] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Mar 2007 21:02:16 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 21:02:15 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <etuqsn+ae8c@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070319024320.54086.qmail@web52011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.54 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 82.46.105.243 From: "plikmas" <plikma@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: IB: Local government of England X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=271811073; y=YYs-Vi5xlhP1pxIrWa4KOg3kwn5S_ELN0RDOX2L5l8ny6w X-Yahoo-Profile: plikmas --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- plikmas <plikma@...> wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > Brown <elemtilas@> wrote: > > > > > > 2) That the Soke of Peterborough and the > > Isle > > > > of Ely are county > > > > corporates within Cambridgeshire; perhaps > > the > > > > Bishop of Ely has > > > > similar (at least ceremonial) powers to the > > > > bishop of Durham? > > > > > > Sounds interesting. What sort of ceremonial > > > powers? > > > > > > > I.e. only de jure powers, not de facto ones, a > > bit like a the > > royal perogative. Opens council meetings, has > > some sort of > > non-voting seat of office, etc etc. > > OK. > > > > > 4) That the Parts of Lincolnshire and the > > > > Ridings of Yorkshire have > > > > most of the authority expected in a county > > > > council with no real seeing > > > > for those counties of own councils. > > > > My main reason for this was it seemed very IB, > > having a > > very poetic system - for want of a better word > > - where > > the obsession with rationality for its own sake > > hasn't > > completely taken over. > > OK. > > > > > 5) That the County of London was never > > created, > > > > but that the > > > > Metropolitan Board of Works was created and > > > > looks after things such as > > > > the Metropolitan Police, the fire service, > > > > infrastructure, transport > > > > etc etc and was expanded in 1965 to cover > > all > > > > of *here*'s greater London. > > > > > > Could go along with that one too. > > > > > > > That one was principally because it was the > > only practical > > thing I could think of. Not having some sort of > > representation > > for London would be a little odd IMO especially > > for > > infrastructure purposes. > > OK. > > Makes good sense to me, though I'm not really > competent to offer either a strong concur or any > sensible argument against the proposals. > > Padraic > Because no one has replied to this, I will put it on the wiki with a proposal tag. Thankyou - Quentin.
From Montrei13@gmail.com Fri Mar 23 03:35:30 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 37563 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2007 10:31:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2007 10:31:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO wr-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.184.238) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2007 10:31:58 -0000 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 68so905395wri for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 03:31:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=eDg4yCEG7QS/ndGd4dwK+zHFIyMjM+W7Edne9BC7w5G8P2wgiPnVoVG5EGFTLedV/R7grrkDrP3q+z8a3NFhe4lGRWgV0NQ/hrZPH1tnBvexskkr/OCmSen7ITSdx7GobJwCkOUTtDj5LriWGLiojcrh0GSTVJw7zTbLlvXDz8g= Received: by 10.114.151.13 with SMTP id y13mr1119847wad.1174645917150; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 03:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.135.19 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Mar 2007 03:31:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7b9d11410703230331y383ea83bqbd59759c851efa55@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 03:31:57 -0700 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Originating-IP: 64.233.184.238 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Some Saalangal gods X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=g9pad_tzRB_tE2fSkgNqfhlDZfyzHcixd5daVtbd0YjMcBqo X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous I've been working on some of the spiritual beliefs of the Saalangal, and have begun to think about their gods and goddesses. Yes, you may recognize terms that originate in Sanskrit, but that's exactly what I wanted, to take some of their words from existing languages. I haven't worked a lot of details out, so bear with me: Umenadewa – Heavenly Dewa This is not a term for their rank or importance, but rather their location. As it implies, these dewa are associated with the heavens, the sky. These gods are some of the fewest in Saalangal cosmology. Mahabatara - The supreme god, without form, or sex. Mahabatara is rather mysterious, but the Saalangal believe it created Mahanem the sky god, Mahamale the sea goddess, Ardan the sun, and Sapani the moon. Ardan and Sapani were intended to rule over the sky, but turned incredibly lusty towards each other and began to race across the sky, Sapani teasing Ardan, and Ardan trying to catch Sapani. In their place, Mahabatara created Mahanem to rule the sky, and Mahamale as his wife, giving her her own domain (the sea). It was successful in keeping them separate for most of the time to prevent the same thing that happened with Ardan and Sapani. Mahanem – Sky god, married Mahamale, the great sea goddess. Between them they had several children, the eastern, western, northern, and southern skies. Seed that spilled onto Mahamale became Malandewa, the earth god. Malandewa – Earth god. Unlike many mythologies which cast the earth god as female, Malandewa is male, having been born of seed fallen onto his mother during intercourse between Mahanem and Mahamale. His four sisters were created from the complete union of the two gods. Benaumena, Manayumena, Seporumena, Kesraumena – eastern, western, northern, and southern goddeses of the skies. In their names, "umena" designates the skies along the horizon (hanem designates the sky in general). Unlike their brother, they were created by a complete union between Mahanem and Mahamale. Their domain is the region where their father and mother procreated. Benaumena is considered to age as she grows older each day. Manayumena is said to grow more beautiful as she ages. Seporumena is brilliant with sun and light, while Kesraumena is said to be plain, but constantly beautiful. Malenamay – The sea wind. Her birth was not from the union of Mahanem or Mahamale, but she appeared one day blowing in off the sea. She is the wife of Malandewa. Their union created the land and sea breezes, the god of storms and clouds, and the goddess of rain and plants. Ardan and Sapani – Sun and moon. these two were created before Mahanem and Mahamale were created by Mahabatara to rule in the domain of the sky. However, they were much more interested in chasing each other rather lustily, and constantly ran back and forth across the sky. Ardan constantly trying to catch Sapani. Because of this, Mahabatara created Mahanem to rule the sky domain, and gave him Mahamale as his wife. Ardan and Sapani are usually too busy to worry about anything other than their chase, and Mahanem usually ignores them. Tara – The star goddess was created from the first union of Ardan and Sapani. It is said wherever she walks, she leaves behind one of her flaming jewels (gifts from Ardan and Sapani), which become a star. She was created before her sister Dusa, the goddess of night. Dusa – The goddess of night. She is technically a night god, but she is often included with the sky gods due to her parentage. She was created shortly after her sister. She was born dark and beautiful, and chose to hide under the earth whenever her parents would chase each other across the sky. It may need work, it may change, but there it is.
From Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu Sat Mar 24 18:40:15 2007 Return-Path: <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> X-Sender: Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 49426 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 01:40:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 01:40:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.25) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 01:40:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 01:40:14 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Mar 2007 01:40:14 -0000 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 01:40:12 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eu4jts+jfab@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 207.200.116.139 From: "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@colorado.edu> Subject: FIU News: Mar. 16-19 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=231808875; y=jYX9SfExV3GADIdX0uZsIozfoopufb1XjhwYXuym0pTyYluoWw X-Yahoo-Profile: habarakhe4 16 (FIU) On Emperor Xian Jaohao: Once upon a time, there was an Emperor who had lived many years and desired a son to become Emperor after him. His advisors suggested that the Emperor look beyond the land which he ruled, for the Emperor had sired many children, but he had none with a concubine or a queen. The Emperor chose an heir. The advisors politely warned him of the hardships that heir would face. The Emperor's will prevailed. Emperor Xian Jaohao is heirless 17 O-OA-HU, Kingdom of Ping-Lai - Astonishment and fear grip the islands after yesterday's announcement by Xian Jaohao, the Imperial pretender of Jinguo, that his heir would be Xian Jieheng, the Ping-Lai liaison to the New Korean community. The announcement stirred up fears that the restoration of Empire in Jinguo will lead to the attempted recon quest of Ping-Lai. Queen Keikikalani, Kahuna Nui Likeke Lono, and Ko Bo-Hyon, leader of the New Korean community have convened to resolve the question. 18 (FIU) NAGASAKI, Japan - Controversy Over "Letters from Takeshima". 19 (FIU) SOUTHERN INDIA "You have no option. Surrender the package," the Imperial Indian soldier demanded of the Tamils. The Tamils did not move. "We are in a remote area. There is no escape." The Tamils looked at each other. They opened the package. They died. Then the Indians died. The other Indians, who had watched their comrades die, fled.
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sun Mar 25 16:06:39 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25439 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 23:06:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m50.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 23:06:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.57) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 23:06:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 82471 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2007 23:06:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lJvOut8VM1kuy2xUs1RxgxVIZzx15FFxC.J0N.wHXZ3n9Dtl5pEx3ainYCBfIUem6C_OAN4MvpaFqfvGHU2dUrOMTMp_NWmIs.W34SaHOiVjX8CSW.ZRbjVE9srlJJblbrLP6regK.VXkAVAhynC3HQdB5tj15G8PJpNiMCb0HCoaapg5haIHw-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:06:37 PDT Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:06:37 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <7b9d11410703212042y84ee59bp8ef016e4581f54f5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <160214.82177.qm@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.57 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Automotive industry in IB X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=n_5xbFxbmneS4tQ9lCW-tTlZjr85GHo4305z-wGmlH0IVe_h X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Barry Garcia <Montrei13@gmail.com> wrote: > On 3/20/07, Wayne Chevrier > <Wayne.Chevrier@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Oregon, Alyaska, and Kanawiki drive on the > left like Japan. I suspect Montrei, A-C, and > Louisianne drive on the right, like Europe. > > > AC and Montrei would probably go with whatever > Louisianne does, as > it's their biggest neighbor, and I suspect it > would've helped start up > the technology there. > > I'm imagining though that at border crossings > with countries that > drive opposite each other, that at least on the > major roads, there > would be some sort of "twist" which would shift > the road over to the > correct lane for the direction one is > travelling: > > http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/429985375_69194261cd_o.jpg > > That's a quick drawing, but a more detailed > description would be, that > the road crosses over itself at the border. > There would be plenty of > time to make the crossing, sort of like how > highway entrances have > onramps. One side would either dip below the > road level to pass under, > or maybe there would be a small bridge crossing > over the other lane. > > Of course, I imagine for smaller more rural > roads you sort of do whatever, perhaps? Makes sense! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Sun Mar 25 16:10:15 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71446 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2007 23:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 Mar 2007 23:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52005.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.252) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Mar 2007 23:10:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 22666 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2007 23:03:32 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: o710LqQVM1nJvUZ1ZjEtQsQ7pK8_noR2hGhcPe6OAmpKLBh0dwYfTs5xxyVYjApPqQ-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:03:32 PDT Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 16:03:32 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <98662.76155.qm@web60318.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <537525.22305.qm@web52005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Old World diferences in American Megafauna X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=BFFBY7IU2s0zEhC_UER2UHANcQ8d0_tMjxNr4m04NcoonG5y X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > --- Adam Walker <carrajena@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > In C-a Persia fell as in our world, and so > did > > > Egypt, > > > but the Egyptians had already thrown out > > > Byzantium so > > > they looked on Islam as a foreign oppressor > > > destroying > > > their brand new independence rather than > > > lireators. > > > Revolts were frequent and the refugees > stirred > > > up > > > Carthage to resist. The resistance meant > much > > > harsher > > > rule and continued defiance. Egypt held on > to > > > the > > > Coptic language and Coptic Orthodoxy. > Carthage > > > held > > > on to Carrajina and Donatism. Here's > Morroco > > > is a > > > real mixed bag. Islam did not spread south > > > into the > > > Sahara. During the Cursade period all of > North > > > Africa > > > experienced periodic revolts which were > > > eventually > > > successful. That made the Reconquista in a > > > fractured > > > Spain much easier. > > > > I was reviewing some notes and it turns out > that > > Arabia as well as some parts of Persia, in > the > > World, are Baptists (not Christian Baptists, > but > > John the Baptiser Baptists). "In Arabia, in > later > > centuries, an ardent convert to Baptism was > > Mohamat and he would compose a new gospel, > the > > Gospel of the Baptist to the Arabs which > would > > bequeathe to Baptism a particularly Arabian > > flavour." It seems that this Baptism gave > rise to > > both Christianity and it lesser sibling > > Iscariotism, which holds that Judas Iscariot > and > > Judas Thomas (Jesus's twin) are the same > person > > and that Judas and Jesus both are > coredemptors. > > > > Until recently, Egypt was still a Roman > holding, > > but is now probably about all that's left of > the > > western Roman Empire. Carthage is undoubtedly > > drooling over the prospects, though they > would do > > better to look west towards Mauretania. > > > > Padraic > > > Interesting oddities. Who on earth is Judas > Thomas? Um. One of the Twelve Apostles? ;) > Does he exist *here*? Yes. He's also known as Didymus, the twin. He's the one that went to India and today's Thomarist Christians (the ones discovered by the Portuguese along the west coast of India) are attributed to his mission. Apparently, he died there. The Gospel of Thomas is also attributed to him. > So Egypt is Roman, but Rome no longer is? > *puzzled* A long story. I'm beginning to look at the timeline of the last century or so. There has been a thaumological revolution among the Daine (kind of like a technological revolution, only with magic rather than engineering) over the last century or so; the huge (perhaps mega) volcano just beyond the Pillars of Herakles erupted (sometime after 1996, but long enough ago for the atmosphere to be fairly clean again); the ensuing dark years spurred lots of movement of peoples, strife and unrest. In the middle of that natural disaster, the Daine of Hespera (what might pass for Europe) pushed southwards towards the Inland Sea (the Mediterranean) and eradicated the human countries there, most notably the Empire of the Rum (what is also known as the Western Roman empire). The border between human and Daine lands, in the north, is now in the region of the Zhayyq River (don't recall what the name is *there*, if I even have a name for it), rather than the Danube. This conquest was made easier by their recently developped thaumic machines, especially improved airships and the newly invented airplanes and a variety of other interesting devices that all share the same basic motive power (various sizes of improved homunculus). It didn't hurt that the Daine of those lands are still acutely aware of being pushed out of their ancestral lands by early humans! The Dark was simply the catalyst that caused them to push back. All that remained of the Roman territories after the weather started to clear was Egypt and a handfull of rowdy north African provinces. The whole situation doesn't bode well for the Rum! Probably, Carthage and Ethiopia will end up struggling for these leftovers. Now that the Strait is plugged up again, this leaves all the countries around the Inland Sea wondering what the future holds for them. Especially the countries in Anatolia, the Levant and Africa, who all rely on the sea routes for trade. The Cathaginians are allies of a kingdom called Merecun, south of the devastated territories and thus still open to the Ocean, so they stand a good chance of doing well. Until the sea level starts dropping again due to evaporation... What the situation _does_ bode well for is the philosophers who hold to the "Last Age" philosophy. They have long predicted the End of Mankind in a series of wars in which the Daine would destroy them utterly. The Theory is based on the fact that the "Ages of Men" have been rapidly decreasing in length (the First Age was about 60k years long; the second age about half that and so forth. The present Fifth Age began -- ah, well, when I had written out the "Cultures of the World" in 1996, let's say -- it began a little less than 2000 years ago (the Golden Age of Peace of the Archmage Agustas was the seminal event there). At this point it's anyone's guess how long humans have left or how far the Daine will push! The Daine of the Eastlands haven't engaged in such warfare with their Human neighbours, but many once human inhabited lands have been voluntarily emptied, as people migrate down to the formerly fairly empty lands by the Sea (in the neighbourhood of Mentolatum and Auntimoany). This philosophy is also responsible for the Theory of the Pond Ripple, which further predicts that each of the races will undergo a flowering expansion and an eventual diminution followed by death. If you toss a stone into a (small) pond, you'll notice outwardly expanding ripples, followed by inwardly travelling ripples as the wave bounces off the pond's borders. They claim that the time of Man has come and is now going; the time of the Daine, according to them, will be some four ages of stars in the future (millions of years), and the Teor (Elves) some four ages beyond that. Philosophers haven't yet devised a Theory for who will populate the world after that far distant time, nor have they devised a Theory for who populated in the far distant past...though that might could be a possibility as they begin to understand the geological record a little better and begin to interpret what all those bones mean... > In C-a, I know that Egypt is Coptic-speaking, > and > Carthage is Carrajina-speaking, but I have yet > to > learn what languages are spoken in Chirinaga > (Cyrene) I think that's a Roman land in the World. Possibly disputed by the Carthaginians. > and Maridan~a (Morocco). I suspect that > Morocco > speaks a berber lang (or several). I know the > area > south of C-a speaks Tamazight. Merecun was founded in ancient times by the Carthaginians, so they probably speak a Punic language as well. > Chirinaga is the real puzzle. I've thought > about a > deviant dialect of C-a. I've thought about > Coptic. > I've thought about Arabic. I've thought about > Greek. > I just don't know what to do with the area. It might be time for a field trip! Ask some locals what they speak... Padraic > Adam Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 09:20:40 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59292 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 16:20:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 16:20:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.208) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 16:20:40 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:20:16 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:20:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 16:20:16 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 16:20:16 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eu8rs0+jth6@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.208 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: IB: Tensions in the Caribbean X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=8QqOvTW_TpalyEvlQPL1yfYOc_BQ5cHz7haCgdse7wKqRgLP X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur IBAP: Cuba and the Scandinavian Realm have become embroiled in a diplomatic row as the Scandinavians call into questions Cuba's human rights record. Ambassador Karl Bildt has questioned Cuba's human rights suggesting that as a "daughter-state" of Florida-Caribbea that some form of redress is owed them for the nuclear attack on Charlotte-Amalie in the Cruzans. Yesterday Cuba responded to Bildt's comments at the League of Nations by deriding what it called Sweden and Scandinavia's imperial past. Mr Bildt hit back describing Havana's response as "a desperate attack by a desperate regime". He also told the IBAP that diplomatic mail at the Scandinavian embassy in Havana was being tampered with. "Whether it is linked to this [row] we don't know, but it happened at roughly the same time," he told the Europe Today programme. The row dates back to 12 March, when Mr Bildt gave a speech before the LoN Human Rights Council in which he accused Cuba and other former Floridian countries of violating human rights. "Cuba, unlike the Scandinavian Union, does not persecute migrants or carry out ethnic cleansing that only allows those whose skin and hair colour fit with the racial patterns of former Viking conquerors to remain in the country," said Juan Antonio Fernandez Palacios, Cuban delegate to the League of Nations. Mr. Palacios, went on to accuse Bildt and the Scandinavian Union of hypocrisy. He said Mr Bildt's comments recalled "the not-so-glorious days of Swedish and Scandinavian imperialism, which filled with blood and pain their neighbouring countries". Mr Bildt, who said he was taken aback by the Cuban reaction, said he had "pointed out a fact that was well known to everyone: that they don't respect human rights in Cuba". "The Viking days are gone," he said, rejecting the Cuban accusations. "We are one of the most open countries in Europe and the world in terms of immigration," he added.
From italocarune@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 16:09:42 2007 Return-Path: <italocarune@yahoo.com> X-Sender: italocarune@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 40719 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2007 23:09:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.35) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 Mar 2007 23:09:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.241) by mta9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Mar 2007 23:09:39 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n26.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 23:09:38 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 23:09:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.92] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Mar 2007 23:09:38 -0000 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:09:38 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eu9jri+5eke@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.241 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 72.70.224.227 From: "italocarune" <italocarune@yahoo.com> Subject: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=266994233; y=noOmOjNb6xM4JRL2WUku8FcuaNhstufdYJhwl-zUseeEhOqE0R8 X-Yahoo-Profile: italocarune First, since no-one is using it, I'd be interested to adopt Italy, since I've already done Elba and Piombino. Second, I was thinking as I read about space technology, that Italy, given its proximity to France, would probably be interested in getting in on the Euro-consortium's space project (as, I suspect, would the Kingdom of Two Sicilies, but that's another matter). Given Dalmatia's 2004 withdrawal, wouldn't there be a space open for Italy? That is, if la Nouvelle République Française and an tAonstát Éireann agree. Just some random musings. Thanks, Sectori
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 17:14:08 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46853 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 00:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 00:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52005.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.252) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 00:14:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 91272 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Mar 2007 00:13:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Ucsc69wVM1mpg305CzAa26BVGLqAijfQ6ZC8JILV_POrmvvAHl4a5ekRcESTrUPIqQ-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52005.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:13:07 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:13:07 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eu9jri+5eke@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <935431.89980.qm@web52005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.252 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=HDQjnxkd7xBYwz2NjKWbr7-oRP6FXD5l_Sir3_Zb2mTV4k09 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- italocarune <italocarune@yahoo.com> wrote: > First, since no-one is using it, I'd be > interested to adopt Italy, > since I've already done Elba and Piombino. > > Second, I was thinking as I read about space > technology, that Italy, > given its proximity to France, would probably > be interested in getting > in on the Euro-consortium's space project (as, > I suspect, would the > Kingdom of Two Sicilies, but that's another > matter). Oh, great. Just what we need! Yet another voice to join the argument. When last we heard from the European "space consortium", it was the French arguing over the colour scheme of the rockets. The Dalmatians were just interested in blowing things up; and apparently, they got bored with the project. I doubt it'll ever get off the ground. I also think space technology is a little over rated in IB at this time. There have only been a couple really successful launches, and the very first was only a couple years ago! Just be fairly warned NOT to be talking about Moon bases and man on Mars and that sort of thing any time in the next decade. A manned shot to the Moon is sort of in the works, but is still very much in the planning stages. > Given Dalmatia's > 2004 withdrawal, wouldn't there be a space open > for Italy? Possibly. > That is, if > la Nouvelle République Française and an > tAonstát Éireann agree. Ireland might agree just to get an opposing voice of reason against the French! ;) Padraic > Just some random musings. > > Thanks, > Sectori Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 19:17:19 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 59576 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 02:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 02:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.25) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 02:17:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n31.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 02:16:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.76] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 02:16:42 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:16:41 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eu9uq9+jlg0@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <935431.89980.qm@web52005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.25 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 12.160.33.128 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=D9mzuKF6Ab8P9s6H2qLrPjSNBaUaY1uG3WDqxz_5S0pJyFzF X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- italocarune <italocarune@...> wrote: > > > First, since no-one is using it, I'd be > > interested to adopt Italy, > > since I've already done Elba and Piombino. > > > > Second, I was thinking as I read about space > > technology, that Italy, > > given its proximity to France, would probably > > be interested in getting > > in on the Euro-consortium's space project (as, > > I suspect, would the > > Kingdom of Two Sicilies, but that's another > > matter). > > Oh, great. Just what we need! Yet another voice > to join the argument. When last we heard from the > European "space consortium", it was the French > arguing over the colour scheme of the rockets. > The Dalmatians were just interested in blowing > things up; and apparently, they got bored with > the project. I doubt it'll ever get off the > ground. > > I also think space technology is a little over > rated in IB at this time. There have only been a > couple really successful launches, and the very > first was only a couple years ago! Just be fairly > warned NOT to be talking about Moon bases and man > on Mars and that sort of thing any time in the > next decade. A manned shot to the Moon is sort of > in the works, but is still very much in the > planning stages. Definitely. For all of ATOE's bluster and such, I don't see us getting IB to the moon any time before the end of 10 years. The dual assassination definitely set us back a fair piece. > > Given Dalmatia's > > 2004 withdrawal, wouldn't there be a space open > > for Italy? > > Possibly. Maybe. It will have to be discussed by news posts and such. :) > > That is, if > > la Nouvelle République Française and an > > tAonstát Éireann agree. > > Ireland might agree just to get an opposing voice > of reason against the French! ;) > Ah, but are we talking about the French or the Gauls? The Gauls might just be in favor of the Italians, but the French, well, they're French, and they want their color scheme, by Hera! > > Just some random musings. > > > > Thanks, > > Sectori >
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 20:08:22 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 71386 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 03:08:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 03:08:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.57) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 03:08:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 19447 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Mar 2007 03:08:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KVeYxo8VM1myk2LTFkSvmRcTPKcxriDqNjTw8QxloN6.7xkMYAJoxVqEu6sWw.F.jpotlZX6lnRaxG_9GwRCkQEanUVAJggRL0U6w6pOefihtaeo0i33uRqU9S8Sy4hFqHEx88TLk.v4EBSgc1AlJgN_UchExWUZiofO Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:08:00 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 20:08:00 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eu9uq9+jlg0@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <277060.19316.qm@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.57 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=Otss_SGf4lpx3z25A-mVBYZxHgYphhD-Sl8gMeNHuo1sjwgT X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > > That is, if > > > la Nouvelle République Française and an > > > tAonstát Éireann agree. > > > > Ireland might agree just to get an opposing > voice > > of reason against the French! ;) > > > > Ah, but are we talking about the French or the > Gauls? The Gauls might > just be in favor of the Italians, but the > French, well, they're > French, and they want their color scheme, by > Hera! Hah! The Gauls zays he! Aye, they might favour the Italians, but just thou mark my words, they have their eyes on a particular colour scheme and will argue over it til the cows come home. They have their pride too! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From italocarune@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 05:37:10 2007 Return-Path: <italocarune@yahoo.com> X-Sender: italocarune@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19284 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 12:36:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 12:36:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n33b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.215) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 12:36:42 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n33.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 12:36:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 12:36:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.90] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 12:36:19 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 12:36:19 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eub343+u39q@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <277060.19316.qm@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.215 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 72.70.224.227 From: "italocarune" <italocarune@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=266994233; y=Sn7rujKdQ2CVi9b1D7iuyd-iEkkeNK0Uf1P4dxrgRcwqeNgM68I X-Yahoo-Profile: italocarune --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > Brown <elemtilas@> wrote: > > > > That is, if > > > > la Nouvelle République Française and an > > > > tAonstát Éireann agree. > > > > > > Ireland might agree just to get an opposing > > voice > > > of reason against the French! ;) > > > > > > > Ah, but are we talking about the French or the > > Gauls? The Gauls might > > just be in favor of the Italians, but the > > French, well, they're > > French, and they want their color scheme, by > > Hera! > > Hah! The Gauls zays he! Aye, they might favour > the Italians, but just thou mark my words, they > have their eyes on a particular colour scheme and > will argue over it til the cows come home. They > have their pride too! So you all think it's at least worth Queen Luisa II contacting the Euro-consortium to find out for sure? How would I go about such an announcement? A news article?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 06:02:22 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 19800 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 13:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 13:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.28) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 13:02:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 19585 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Mar 2007 13:01:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20070327130108.19583.qmail@web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: OVvJoNcVM1mtqiYCjcH26ucgZbORYEGH1sgfW2kuJPW81Miss.3ASOkkfigyq5enANKap8GFKhjzWLTnNNrE6lNy37oNM_N.InEH7Cd2GRKDoYyI_trP8OJMOSZr2NKT7dpnluR1DBS9xfJPEGSEy4mspWfxNHVru9aH Received: from [198.133.139.165] by web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 06:01:08 PDT Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 06:01:08 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eub343+u39q@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.28 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=gFgJQan8T2pKLjbOdH4VjpABgrFmUD2obSXZEOioJ7X2eFW4 X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- italocarune <italocarune@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > > > --- Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > > > > > --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic > > > Brown <elemtilas@> wrote: > > > > > That is, if > > > > > la Nouvelle République Française and an > > > > > tAonstát Éireann agree. > > > > > > > > Ireland might agree just to get an > opposing > > > voice > > > > of reason against the French! ;) > > > > > > > > > > Ah, but are we talking about the French or > the > > > Gauls? The Gauls might > > > just be in favor of the Italians, but the > > > French, well, they're > > > French, and they want their color scheme, > by > > > Hera! > > > > Hah! The Gauls zays he! Aye, they might > favour > > the Italians, but just thou mark my words, > they > > have their eyes on a particular colour scheme > and > > will argue over it til the cows come home. > They > > have their pride too! > > So you all think it's at least worth Queen > Luisa II contacting the > Euro-consortium to find out for sure? How would > I go about such an > announcement? A news article? Yeah. A vaguish "Italian officials hold summit with Euro-consortium members regarding bid by Italian states to join forces blah blah." Of course, "Italy" is not a single country, but several. Doesn't mean they can't work together though! Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From italocarune@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 07:02:19 2007 Return-Path: <italocarune@yahoo.com> X-Sender: italocarune@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 18403 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 14:02:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m45.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 14:02:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18a.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.47) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 14:02:01 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by n18.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 14:01:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.84] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 14:01:27 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:01:25 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eub83l+kg72@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070327130108.19583.qmail@web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.47 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 72.70.224.227 From: "italocarune" <italocarune@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=266994233; y=mxu-qIgO_ezJb4EM4a7FseYQpO0xyMqL7uFhemYufQNfmDcnhSE X-Yahoo-Profile: italocarune > Yeah. A vaguish "Italian officials hold summit > with Euro-consortium members regarding bid by > Italian states to join forces blah blah." Of > course, "Italy" is not a single country, but > several. Doesn't mean they can't work together > though! Something like this? "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 Italy Announces Intent to Reach Space At noon today, Queen Luisa II's government announced to the press that it intended to hold a summit in Milano to discuss the idea of joining the Euro-consortium's space program. Italian envoys have been in contact with the Euro-consortium, which seems willing to at least consider the move. Luisa II has been pushing Italy towards joining such a program since the Holy Roman Empire's successful satellite launch in 2002, but this has been a major breakthrough for her government. Delegates from each of Italy's member states will meet in Milano over the coming few weeks to discuss the idea, and the Queen's government has optomistically stated that they expect a decision to be made by the first week of April. The Senate, in an emergency meeting, has approved the move by a good margin. This further show of support will probably speed up the summit's decision. As the national summit occurs in Milano, the Italian government is sending officials to meet with the Euro-consortium to discuss this bid as a probability, not just a possibility. Minister of Science and Technology Emanuele dei Angeli stated that Italy should be optomistic, and that while the Euro-consortium had seemed divided, he believed that this offer would ultimately be accepted." I typed it up on the spot, so I doubt it's perfect. Grazi, Séctori
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 13:49:20 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 89900 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 20:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m42.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 20:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.126) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 20:49:03 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n17.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 20:45:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 20:45:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.73] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 20:45:08 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:45:06 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eubvoi+ck7q@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <eu4jts+jfab@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.126 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: FIU News: Mar. 16-19 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=CV6kZNjDWrXsPNTPySLREMOedBtywfRe0qMjIih5fHou_pMJWPVh X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "habarakhe4" <Anthony.Miles@...> wrote: >16 >(FIU) >On Emperor Xian Jaohao: >Once upon a time, there was an Emperor who had lived many years and >[snip] >Emperor Xian Jaohao is heirless > >17 >O-OA-HU, Kingdom of Ping-Lai - >Astonishment and fear grip the islands after yesterday's >[snip] >New Korean community have convened to resolve the question. > >18 >(FIU) >NAGASAKI, Japan - >Controversy Over "Letters from Takeshima". > >19 >(FIU) >SOUTHERN INDIA >"You have no option. Surrender the package," the Imperial Indian >[snip] > The other Indians, who had watched their comrades die, fled. The stuff on the 16th, 17th, and 19th is exciting, and I'd like to know more about what they're about. What's the thing on the 18th about? What are these letters?
From tomhchappell@yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 13:50:34 2007 Return-Path: <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> X-Sender: tomhchappell@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 10781 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 20:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 20:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25c.bullet.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.67.216) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 20:50:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by n25.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 20:49:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.74] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Mar 2007 20:49:55 -0000 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:49:55 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <euc01j+bdod@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <277060.19316.qm@web52008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 66.218.67.216 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 66.51.146.139 From: "tomhchappell" <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=222183540; y=i_ke1eEyZ_h0zvFDG9dDxWoHvcvNSCbnkBef_qauf_WcQOWr1EH0 X-Yahoo-Profile: tomhchappell ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: >---Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@...> wrote: >[snip] >>... color scheme ... >[snip] > .... colour scheme .... >[snip] But, isn't it true that, in space, no one can hear your scheme?
From petri.peltonen@hse.fi Tue Mar 27 23:49:23 2007 Return-Path: <Petri.Peltonen@hse.fi> X-Sender: Petri.Peltonen@hse.fi X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 84479 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 06:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m37a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 06:49:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hkkk.fi) (128.214.26.244) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 06:49:22 -0000 Received: from e2k3org.hkkk.local (e2k3org.hkkk.local [128.214.32.3]) by hkkk.fi (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l2S6f8VD000442 for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:41:08 +0300 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:41:11 +0300 Message-ID: <5EEDC3037D8C0144A46B1FEEFC20DCD006C6EF7B@e2k3org.hkkk.local> In-Reply-To: <1175012493.1590.9819.m20@yahoogroups.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) Thread-Index: Acdwi/1mqeKBrZX3QAWjmA2Ve/WRYQAd72Eg References: <1175012493.1590.9819.m20@yahoogroups.com> To: <conculture@yahoogroups.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.7, clamav-milter version 0.88.7 on mail1.hkkk.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (hkkk.fi [10.10.6.2]); Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:41:08 +0300 (EEST) X-Originating-IP: 128.214.26.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Peltonen Petri" <petri.peltonen@hse.fi> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=244363854; y=BMuRBAUE2Z5NQ57gIoApvKQP3z7MIDLzFkeGabpqzaqjvIs X-Yahoo-Profile: ppeltone > "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 Wouldn't it be Osservatore Fiorentino or some such, more likely than Florence Observer. :) Piedro, nitpicking
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 06:34:51 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30409 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 13:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 13:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.248) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 13:34:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 99355 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Mar 2007 13:33:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20070328133334.99353.qmail@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: xPt5P6IVM1m1REh9pkGb7DnHe.4zH2ki1eHOGkJ9PvxE._kRH_Dx9nSTh0OR9WWX096TJgecqUIrEN9l6ejuQCxdvEtz7m_X_Q6iwYdMJSZoJcBGPNIhHv5ybWQHGNq.QuEa2dxn7q_gpoSgD9NMogy18w-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:33:34 PDT Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:33:34 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <euc01j+bdod@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.248 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=a3F75dPkkR6XH1RE1yZO78rUuaoc-jHA-Jph5cARAd86gN9x X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- tomhchappell <tomhchappell@yahoo.com> wrote: > ---In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown > <elemtilas@...> wrote: > >---Daniel Hicken <bo_arthur@...> wrote: > >[snip] > >>... color scheme ... > >[snip] > > .... colour scheme .... > >[snip] > > But, isn't it true that, in space, no one can > hear your scheme? _You_ try convincing a load of French rocket engineers (i.e., artists) of this fact! ;) Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 06:41:05 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 12223 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 13:41:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 13:41:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.48.28) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 13:41:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 2871 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Mar 2007 13:41:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20070328134101.2869.qmail@web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: so6rkhYVM1nfpa_hvlSXVnC2di5D2kd6TZ._ytA8OdwBaNx4Et3t9N1tLXnkDCMAeAoPE4IHK_nNK9ZaHAdezXrPuD_rWt18hceOZmJIEkEEipuI0eRZFqVC2ACS41YOgOIyFeCxZIqX5bV5idZhWF8G6Q-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:41:01 PDT Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:41:01 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <5EEDC3037D8C0144A46B1FEEFC20DCD006C6EF7B@e2k3org.hkkk.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.48.28 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=FvuAcoc0tPYA-BGOS0KOUdmehUK956nHM7BO6-gQcWKQ5hvr X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Peltonen Petri <petri.peltonen@hse.fi> wrote: > > "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 > > Wouldn't it be Osservatore Fiorentino or some > such, more likely than > Florence Observer. :) Probably in Fierenze. The usual practice concerning foreign news agency names is this: when cited in the heading of a News article, it's given its native name along with the date and pertinent headline. If it's thoroughly unobvious what the name is, it will also be given in English in brackets. When quoting the news agency's name within an article (not too frequent but it happens), it's name will be rendered in English. The audience for the News articles on the News Page is not a "native" audience, but rather the general Internet community. Reason being: while most (IB) English speakers are bilinguals in Brithenig and familiar with Scots, we can't expect them all to be omniglots; and English is one language that tends to translate any names it comes across. We can't really expect almost _any_ English speaker *here* to be even bilingual. Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 06:48:34 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87050 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 13:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 13:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52004.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.251) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 13:48:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 9209 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Mar 2007 13:47:17 -0000 Message-ID: <20070328134717.9207.qmail@web52004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 8gpQBe4VM1lNZkfI0oSJve8TCC_OyVXLi4YrRveQUz3PFRFQfzFHXL5Zso1RRtQTeHFh1CwcL20Q6Y24wMuURWVKk8NPHx1JQpqGIQaR2xZT0BvHF1nt1AEQwVm.d7BJG9Rk.ZMCY_BXLyTYW79yd5MtQzKI_eMzn.oF Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52004.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:47:17 PDT Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:47:17 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <eub83l+kg72@eGroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.251 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=QyABcCJh4MO8W8dzGlj5Gp4ybjHeiS8-5JkB_Wm7fC1YTE4d X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- italocarune <italocarune@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Yeah. A vaguish "Italian officials hold > summit > > with Euro-consortium members regarding bid by > > Italian states to join forces blah blah." Of > > course, "Italy" is not a single country, but > > several. Doesn't mean they can't work > together > > though! > > Something like this? Indeed. I'll ask for some clarifications: > "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 > > Italy Announces Intent to Reach Space > At noon today, Queen Luisa II's government What is she queen of? Republic of Lombardy or Kingdom of the Two Sicilies? She ain't Pope of Rome, so that takes care of the third Italian state! ;) > announced to the press that > it intended to hold a summit in Milano to > discuss the idea of joining > the Euro-consortium's space program. Italian > envoys have been in > contact with the Euro-consortium, which seems > willing to at least > consider the move. Luisa II has been pushing > Italy towards joining > such a program since the Holy Roman Empire's > successful satellite > launch in 2002, but this has been a major > breakthrough for her government. > > Delegates from each of Italy's member states > will meet in Milano over > the coming few weeks to discuss the idea, and > the Queen's government > has optomistically stated that they expect a > decision to be made by > the first week of April. > > The Senate, in an emergency meeting, has > approved the move by a good > margin. This further show of support will > probably speed up the > summit's decision. Frankly, I am surprised that such a long-time project of the queen's would require an "emergency meeting" of the Senate for approval. I would simply leave out "in an emergency meeting" and make this whole affair sound more like a serious project and less like the whim of a queen who's fancied shooting something into space all of a sudden. > As the national summit occurs in Milano, the > Italian government is > sending officials to meet with the > Euro-consortium to discuss this bid > as a probability, not just a possibility. > Minister of Science and > Technology Emanuele dei Angeli stated that > Italy should be optomistic, > and that while the Euro-consortium had seemed > divided, he believed > that this offer would ultimately be accepted." > > I typed it up on the spot, so I doubt it's > perfect. I think it's fine. It'll get added to the News Page during the next update. Padraic > Grazi, > Séctori Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From coefficient@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 10:56:16 2007 Return-Path: <coefficient@gmail.com> Received: (qmail 46577 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 17:56:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.34) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 17:56:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.163) by mta8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 17:56:14 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 17:54:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 17:54:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t3.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 17:54:52 -0000 X-Sender: coefficient@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 3780 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2007 17:22:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Mar 2007 17:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nf-out-0910.google.com) (64.233.182.185) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2007 17:22:19 -0000 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id y38so3164145nfb for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:22:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=CLWZkBepOfJWtnZOCWZnm5aUZSeZYtJ3i3soGEzk3KYbgNfwqaCVInKXKIdUSDj7mtFnJYBNI5bdxkLlbBN9YaPZv45y0UPI/xpulO3cGIShg06MhqFeHuZU0B0hpZ5bj0HdpB+GML+cVlkvEUhbIXCZhFKXmmQqtrR923KxLds= Received: by 10.78.180.16 with SMTP id c16mr3678777huf.1175016136756; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.70.9 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <69de18e60703271022j22d771dbm118d5207adf983f3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:22:16 -0400 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12940_10034161.1175016136716" X-Originating-IP: 64.233.182.185 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Michael O'Shaughnessy" <coefficient@gmail.com> Subject: IB Islam? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=237051367; y=qjed3ah2Sc_A8PKRUPU0GK0K5fYM5ExgK2kSxvcX7p4UbPTg8KQ X-Yahoo-Profile: aod_azariah X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 28 Mar 2007 17:54:52 -0000 ------=_Part_12940_10034161.1175016136716 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm new to IB, having just recently found it through various browsings on wikipedia, and one thing that disappointed me was a lack of information on the spread of Islam through Europe in the IB timeline, though there were some hints as to Islamic evangelism into Northern Europe, the oldest mosques in Europe having been found in Kemr. That said, where are the source documents on this? ------=_Part_12940_10034161.1175016136716--
From bo_arthur@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 10:59:21 2007 Return-Path: <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> X-Sender: bo_arthur@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46761 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 17:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 17:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.225) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 17:59:01 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n25.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 17:59:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 17:59:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.89] by t2.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 17:59:01 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:58:59 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <euead3+u1fg@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070328134717.9207.qmail@web52004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.225 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 128.187.0.164 From: "Daniel Hicken" <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=137629802; y=_vBcZqh5mkGmIdH1SSB75QpszzlFD_6uwZSIR8gtV14HT6dr X-Yahoo-Profile: bo_arthur --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > Italy Announces Intent to Reach Space > > At noon today, Queen Luisa II's government > > What is she queen of? Republic of Lombardy or > Kingdom of the Two Sicilies? She ain't Pope of > Rome, so that takes care of the third Italian > state! ;) I think the Republic of Lombardy was subsumed with DeCameron's contributions, and I wasn't sure whether we would be keeping it or not. > > The Senate, in an emergency meeting, has > > approved the move by a good > > margin. This further show of support will > > probably speed up the > > summit's decision. > > Frankly, I am surprised that such a long-time > project of the queen's would require an > "emergency meeting" of the Senate for approval. I > would simply leave out "in an emergency meeting" > and make this whole affair sound more like a > serious project and less like the whim of a queen > who's fancied shooting something into space all > of a sudden. Maybe she's taken a Dalmatian lover who's encouraging her that way?
From elemtilas@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 11:28:31 2007 Return-Path: <elemtilas@yahoo.com> X-Sender: elemtilas@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 9454 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 18:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.70) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 18:28:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com) (206.190.49.249) by mta12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 18:28:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 64273 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Mar 2007 18:28:18 -0000 Message-ID: <20070328182818.64271.qmail@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: c9VeKskVM1ls2IzrTbBFrgh3bJvP6sqqBtbIJ9foioPuxy8fCrBYBiHdEhn1LABrZVsDIVCtGKKrPQb1J6IoV2fwGTUIINAcm7gxEX7Fcq8iWkYcqNBOGimYg.ZB21ZB6zFy1LmksdRHDLXFzbm9jBCMsA-- Received: from [69.138.73.14] by web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:28:18 PDT Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 11:28:18 -0700 (PDT) To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <69de18e60703271022j22d771dbm118d5207adf983f3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 206.190.49.249 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB Islam? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=120022122; y=HR7MTQy-8uUS-YBZfwrPy-zeBIpnQ8Az0y7ZuYts-Ckhl3KT X-Yahoo-Profile: elemtilas --- Michael O'Shaughnessy <coefficient@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm new to IB, having just recently found it > through various browsings on > wikipedia, and one thing that disappointed me > was a lack of information on > the spread of Islam through Europe in the IB > timeline, It hasn't been found to be of particular interest as of yet. We don't "fill in the blanks" just because there are perceived blanks to be filled. Probably the best sources on Islam in Europe are found in articles and News items pertaining to Sanjak. > though there were > some hints as to Islamic evangelism into > Northern Europe, the oldest mosques > in Europe having been found in Kemr. That said, > where are the source documents on this? The source document for the latter statements is here: http://ib.frath.net/w/Dumnonia Padraic Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase! --Pomperios Perfurios. -- Ill Bethisad -- <http://www.bethisad.com> Come visit The World! -- <https://www.oocities.org/hawessos/> .
From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 12:18:40 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27929;u=;t=1175147579;m=1288481463;s=1126946264;
From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 14:03:01 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27930;u=;t=1175147579;m=1288481463;s=1126946264;
From italocarune@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 16:36:48 2007 Return-Path: <italocarune@yahoo.com> X-Sender: italocarune@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 6135 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 23:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m46.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 23:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.244) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 23:29:30 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:28:54 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <euetnm+9mni@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070328134101.2869.qmail@web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 24.91.51.85 From: "italocarune" <italocarune@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=266994233; y=yUfBiACBwNVHZo9x5jUw6fGlUnLIirSFqvMsaIiiV3rn8u8Qq5w X-Yahoo-Profile: italocarune --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Peltonen Petri <petri.peltonen@...> wrote: > > > > "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 > > > > Wouldn't it be Osservatore Fiorentino or some > > such, more likely than > > Florence Observer. :) > > Probably in Fierenze. The usual practice > concerning foreign news agency names is this: > when cited in the heading of a News article, it's > given its native name along with the date and > pertinent headline. If it's thoroughly unobvious > what the name is, it will also be given in > English in brackets. When quoting the news > agency's name within an article (not too frequent > but it happens), it's name will be rendered in > English. The audience for the News articles on > the News Page is not a "native" audience, but > rather the general Internet community. > > Reason being: while most (IB) English speakers > are bilinguals in Brithenig and familiar with > Scots, we can't expect them all to be omniglots; > and English is one language that tends to > translate any names it comes across. We can't > really expect almost _any_ English speaker *here* > to be even bilingual. Ah, grazi. So it should be the "Osservatore di Firenze [Florence Observer]". > > > Yeah. A vaguish "Italian officials hold > > summit > > > with Euro-consortium members regarding bid by > > > Italian states to join forces blah blah." Of > > > course, "Italy" is not a single country, but > > > several. Doesn't mean they can't work > > together > > > though! > > > > Something like this? > > Indeed. I'll ask for some clarifications: > > > "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 > > > > Italy Announces Intent to Reach Space > > At noon today, Queen Luisa II's government > > What is she queen of? Republic of Lombardy or > Kingdom of the Two Sicilies? She ain't Pope of > Rome, so that takes care of the third Italian > state! ;) I suppose there should be a bracketed [of Italy] after "...Luisa II", for the benefit of international readers. Given that the Florence Observer is an Italian publication, though, I think the editor would probably expect that the Italian populace would grasp the fact that she is queen of Italy. By the way, there is no longer a Republic of Lombardy (and there hasn't been since 1933). The area it once occupied now contains Italy, an elective monarchy/republic/loose confederation of member states. This confusion arose on the Wiki, too. > > announced to the press that > > it intended to hold a summit in Milano to > > discuss the idea of joining > > the Euro-consortium's space program. Italian > > envoys have been in > > contact with the Euro-consortium, which seems > > willing to at least > > consider the move. Luisa II has been pushing > > Italy towards joining > > such a program since the Holy Roman Empire's > > successful satellite > > launch in 2002, but this has been a major > > breakthrough for her government. > > > > Delegates from each of Italy's member states > > will meet in Milano over > > the coming few weeks to discuss the idea, and > > the Queen's government > > has optomistically stated that they expect a > > decision to be made by > > the first week of April. > > > > The Senate, in an emergency meeting, has > > approved the move by a good > > margin. This further show of support will > > probably speed up the > > summit's decision. > > Frankly, I am surprised that such a long-time > project of the queen's would require an > "emergency meeting" of the Senate for approval. I > would simply leave out "in an emergency meeting" > and make this whole affair sound more like a > serious project and less like the whim of a queen > who's fancied shooting something into space all > of a sudden. That makes sense to me. :P > > As the national summit occurs in Milano, the > > Italian government is > > sending officials to meet with the > > Euro-consortium to discuss this bid > > as a probability, not just a possibility. > > Minister of Science and > > Technology Emanuele dei Angeli stated that > > Italy should be optomistic, > > and that while the Euro-consortium had seemed > > divided, he believed > > that this offer would ultimately be accepted." > > > > I typed it up on the spot, so I doubt it's > > perfect. > > I think it's fine. It'll get added to the News > Page during the next update. Grazi! Glad I could contribute something.
From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 16:43:38 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27932;u=;t=1175147579;m=1288481463;s=1126946264;
From italocarune@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 16:53:16 2007 Return-Path: <italocarune@yahoo.com> X-Sender: italocarune@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 51135 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 23:49:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m44.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 23:49:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.244) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 23:49:11 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:28:54 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <euetnm+9mni@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070328134101.2869.qmail@web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 24.91.51.85 From: "italocarune" <italocarune@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=266994233; y=Ca4dBIvKr-TN3kCkW3Tl_uowfn7yqYZSZHWwYWksqfxhUycwT6c X-Yahoo-Profile: italocarune --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Peltonen Petri <petri.peltonen@...> wrote: > > > > "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 > > > > Wouldn't it be Osservatore Fiorentino or some > > such, more likely than > > Florence Observer. :) > > Probably in Fierenze. The usual practice > concerning foreign news agency names is this: > when cited in the heading of a News article, it's > given its native name along with the date and > pertinent headline. If it's thoroughly unobvious > what the name is, it will also be given in > English in brackets. When quoting the news > agency's name within an article (not too frequent > but it happens), it's name will be rendered in > English. The audience for the News articles on > the News Page is not a "native" audience, but > rather the general Internet community. > > Reason being: while most (IB) English speakers > are bilinguals in Brithenig and familiar with > Scots, we can't expect them all to be omniglots; > and English is one language that tends to > translate any names it comes across. We can't > really expect almost _any_ English speaker *here* > to be even bilingual. Ah, grazi. So it should be the "Osservatore di Firenze [Florence Observer]". > > > Yeah. A vaguish "Italian officials hold > > summit > > > with Euro-consortium members regarding bid by > > > Italian states to join forces blah blah." Of > > > course, "Italy" is not a single country, but > > > several. Doesn't mean they can't work > > together > > > though! > > > > Something like this? > > Indeed. I'll ask for some clarifications: > > > "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 > > > > Italy Announces Intent to Reach Space > > At noon today, Queen Luisa II's government > > What is she queen of? Republic of Lombardy or > Kingdom of the Two Sicilies? She ain't Pope of > Rome, so that takes care of the third Italian > state! ;) I suppose there should be a bracketed [of Italy] after "...Luisa II", for the benefit of international readers. Given that the Florence Observer is an Italian publication, though, I think the editor would probably expect that the Italian populace would grasp the fact that she is queen of Italy. By the way, there is no longer a Republic of Lombardy (and there hasn't been since 1933). The area it once occupied now contains Italy, an elective monarchy/republic/loose confederation of member states. This confusion arose on the Wiki, too. > > announced to the press that > > it intended to hold a summit in Milano to > > discuss the idea of joining > > the Euro-consortium's space program. Italian > > envoys have been in > > contact with the Euro-consortium, which seems > > willing to at least > > consider the move. Luisa II has been pushing > > Italy towards joining > > such a program since the Holy Roman Empire's > > successful satellite > > launch in 2002, but this has been a major > > breakthrough for her government. > > > > Delegates from each of Italy's member states > > will meet in Milano over > > the coming few weeks to discuss the idea, and > > the Queen's government > > has optomistically stated that they expect a > > decision to be made by > > the first week of April. > > > > The Senate, in an emergency meeting, has > > approved the move by a good > > margin. This further show of support will > > probably speed up the > > summit's decision. > > Frankly, I am surprised that such a long-time > project of the queen's would require an > "emergency meeting" of the Senate for approval. I > would simply leave out "in an emergency meeting" > and make this whole affair sound more like a > serious project and less like the whim of a queen > who's fancied shooting something into space all > of a sudden. That makes sense to me. :P > > As the national summit occurs in Milano, the > > Italian government is > > sending officials to meet with the > > Euro-consortium to discuss this bid > > as a probability, not just a possibility. > > Minister of Science and > > Technology Emanuele dei Angeli stated that > > Italy should be optomistic, > > and that while the Euro-consortium had seemed > > divided, he believed > > that this offer would ultimately be accepted." > > > > I typed it up on the spot, so I doubt it's > > perfect. > > I think it's fine. It'll get added to the News > Page during the next update. Grazi! Glad I could contribute something.
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From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 20:34:27 2007 Return-Path: <montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30037 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2007 03:34:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.33) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2007 03:34:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nz-out-0506.google.com) (64.233.162.230) by mta7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2007 03:34:27 -0000 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i1so46516nzh for <conculture@yahoogroups.com>; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:34:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JvIA/1SI7BTKzNDC1SjZtP8ROpo947WSVQbsOjV7KXhZ1llLmfg7JiQ2QAtGOc9uvNtmwyGYhLLden1c9zqFYh2hMJTSL8JJ3MHyCSHPpJIA0Hab/o/T7jiHIfctZWQLbH9uw55o6JNFABAJYuHi+8yOqoI4S/2LvIJkEGh6nRA= Received: by 10.114.53.1 with SMTP id b1mr3863104waa.1175109025254; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.135.19 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7b9d11410703281210t683349aeic6a64186d18be38c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 12:10:25 -0700 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <69de18e60703271022j22d771dbm118d5207adf983f3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <69de18e60703271022j22d771dbm118d5207adf983f3@mail.gmail.com> X-Originating-IP: 64.233.162.230 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:0:0:0 From: "Barry Garcia" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [conculture] IB Islam? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=AdHnTbyYiv9GRXTB8pRsWZmrpPCLFxRqrkeU1EuSzwBLiiuS X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous On 3/27/07, Michael O'Shaughnessy <coefficient@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm new to IB, having just recently found it through various browsings on > wikipedia, and one thing that disappointed me was a lack of information on the > spread of Islam through Europe in the IB timeline, though there were some hints as to Islamic evangelism into Northern Europe, the oldest mosques in Europe having been found in Kemr. That said, where are the source documents on this? Welcome! As Padraic said, there just hasn't been interest in expanding upon it. If you are interested, please create a careful proposal, and make sure it doesn't conflict with QSS (with the Iberian peninsula at least, history shouldn't be too different). Kemr actually has the oldest Mosque in _northern_ Europe, not that it has the oldest mosques in Europe as a whole. The oldest mosques in western Europe should be on the Iberian peninsula (AFAIK).
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 22:50:33 2007 Return-Path: <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 51074 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2007 05:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m47.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2007 05:50:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.213) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2007 05:50:22 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 X-Sender: kode_conlangs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87645 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 19:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 19:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.234) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 19:06:42 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n24.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 19:05:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 19:05:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 19:05:52 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:05:52 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eueeag+pnmo@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070319150425.82213.qmail@web52006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.234 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 74.92.136.149 From: "Peter Ara Guekguezian" <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Wishing to join the enterprise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=300122342; y=lD_eTxqM-8lTrJG_nJ7SwqYiBDhKgk3qztP6otWlHEfwSw2sqSMvcQ X-Yahoo-Profile: kode_conlangs X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:54 -0000 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Peter Ara Guekguezian > <kode_conlangs@...> wrote: > > > I ran across IB several months ago, probably > > from a link on the ZBB. > > I really loved what I saw, but put it on the > > backburner for the time being. > > Welcome back! Thanks! I wish I had joined sooner, but, oh well--I'm here now! > > Last month or so, I rekindled my interest in > > IB, and the more I > > read, the deeper I fall in love with it. > > Thank you! All those of us who have been working > on IB for a while are here for the same reason. > > > My favorite areas are the > > languages, the maps, and the history, but the > > culture, religion, > > flag/emblem and famous personality parts of IB > > are intriguing as well. > > I'm the principal person in the religious aspect > of IB, concentrating on the Catholic Church and > several smaller religious movements. As I'm sure > you're aware, there are several currents > indigenous to IB that don't exist *here*. Your > input (as a question asker) would certainly be > welcome and is solicited. If at some point you > feel like contributing, then that would be > welcome as well. Cool! I'll definitely have to read more... > > I would like to focus on North America and the > > Middle East, but am > > glad to help with any region. I find Oregon, > > Montrei, and the NAL- > > SLC among the most appealing countries, but the > > RTC, Armorica, the > > FK, Lebanon, Judaea, Ethiopia and Japan are > > also up there IMO. > > The NAL has been one of our more interesting > endeavours. It started out as a mere suggestion, > and has ended up becoming one of our better > explored places. > > There are a lot of us involved in the NAL (I'm > interested mostly in the transportation systems > and in the provinces of Ter Mair and Virginia and > the non-provincial mass known as the > Unincorporated Territory). The NAL is definitely a Good Thing. I'm most interested in the Native parts of the NAL, myself. BTW, I noticed from The List that you're around Ter Mair/Virginia IRL. I'm in Annapolis for college. > > Of course, the project as a whole is just so > > staggering awesome that I > > can't help but offer my mind as a sacrifice to > > build up this edifice. > > If you haven't yet, please visit www.bethisad.com > -- there are some things there you should read > that describe our overall philosophy. In > addition, on the wiki there is a section called > "How It All Works" which contains some of the > above as well as some other material of interest. > For historical perspective, you might be > interested in www.bethisad.com/list.htm -- the > list of our offical and declared participants. > Looks like you'll be enrolled there before too > long! I read it, and I think I could fit in here. I also read the transcript of "the June Revolt", which is rather sobering for an excited prospective member... > > *wipes drool off floor* > > > > Okay, so I'm really psyched. As far as a > > potential personal > > contribution goes, I've been thinking of > > developing the medieval > > Armenian kingdom of Cilicia > > Cool. Very little of IB before the 20th century > has been explored. So this is charting some > unknown waters. The two areas I'd like to start to find out about are 1) the rise of Islam (7th-8th centuries) and 2) the Crusades (12th-15th~16th centuries). I think these periods have the most bearing on the eventual makeup of the modern Middle East *there*, both linguistically and religiously. I'm really curious about what happens to the native Christian presence there. > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilicia ; > > the page kinda sucks, but it has some links). I > > figure Cilicia would > > offer itself to the Crusaders as a base for > > their operations in the > > Levant. I understand that the Crusades > > apparently are longer *there* > > than *here*. Cilicia could play a role in that, > > as well as in the > > eventual end of the Crusades. After the ruling > > class gets heavily > > Europeanized/Catholicized, the Armenian > > peasants and apostolic > > clergy would chafe under their presence, and > > eventually rebel. If > > the Armenians allied with the Judaeans, the > > Lebanese Druze, and > > maybe the Assyrians, the 'Alawites, and some > > other assorted Arabs, > > they could probably kick out the Crusaders > > around maybe the 15th > > centuries. Of course, they would fall to > > squabbling, and the > > Ottomans would extend their empire over them. > > You'll want to put yourself in contact with Steg > and the others who have been working on the > middle East. I saw Steg's & Pedro's replies (Hi guys!), and would be glad to work with them. I'd like to think that Cilicia and perhaps an expanded Levantine Alliance could fit in with what they're thinking, but we'll have to explore it a lot further. > > Cilicia would be in the same position as > > Lebanon and Judaea as > > regards relation with the Empire. As Armenian > > nationalism would have > > played a role in kicking out the Crusaders and > > establishing a (short- > > lived) state, they would probably succeed in > > resisting Turkification > > of their area. After the First Great War, > > they'd probably try to > > carve up some of Turkey; when the Turks respond > > with their ultimatum > > against the Armenians and Kurds (and presumably > > other such > > minorities in the vicinity), many Armenians > > would go southwest to > > Cilicia, as well as those going east to > > (previously Russian > > controlled?) Armenia. There would probably > > exist (and have existed) > > some tension between Cilician Armenians who > > were oriented toward the > > Levant and Caucasian-ward Armenians who were > > oriented more toward > > Persia and Russia. There could be both a > > language and a religious > > split there. Eastern Armenia could become > > SNOR-ist, while Cilicia > > would be in line with Judaea and Lebanon (and > > perhaps Syria and/or > > Kurdistan). > > > > I've got more ideas, but I'll wait for a little > > feedback before I post more. > > Fine. We're going on ten years now, and there's a > lot of stuff to learn (and sometimes relearn, as > we've found it's very easy to forget what's > factual and what isn't). > > > BTW, I'm an alright conlanger, not as good as > > conculturing, but excelling in maps. > > We can never have too many maps. There are a > couple atlases floating around, one resides at > bethisad.com, the other can be linked from there. > There are other maps on the wiki, and even a few > hard copy maps to be found. I actually meant "not as good *at* conculturing", BTW. I'm not really an impartial judge about my skill at conlanging, but there are a few people here from the ZBB or CBB (Tom H Chappeli, Sectori, Dan Jones/Dewrad) who could probably evaluate what I've posted there. > > Like I said above, I'd really > > love to commit to this project, even if only as > > a question asker at first. > > Take your time and ease in to it! Discussions > take place both here and on the wiki; and while > we've been a bit quiet of late, such lulls are > generally interspersed with periods of great > activity and creativity. > > Padraic I'll try to familiarize myself as much as possible with the IB world before I really get into working with you guys. ALSO: my website (www.soapboxindustries.com) has a lot of space available on it. While (trying to) browse BoArthur's IB site, I found that he had exceeded his transfer limit. Since I don't have much traffic on my site, I figure I'll have room to let. If anyone's interested in this space (which I've got all nice and paid for, BTW!), talk to me. I might be able to create a subdomain for you, or else I'll just give you access to the site administration. I don't have much uploaded onto there anyway, and everything that's already up is also saved on my hard drive. -kodé
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 22:51:37 2007 Return-Path: <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 89929 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2007 05:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.67.36) by m43.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2007 05:51:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n31b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.209) by mta10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2007 05:51:28 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.216] by n31.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t1.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 X-Sender: kode_conlangs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 11849 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 18:47:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m48.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 18:47:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.163) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 18:47:32 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n6.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 18:47:30 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.86] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 18:47:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.91] by t8.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 18:47:30 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:47:29 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eued81+ug6u@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070328182818.64271.qmail@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.163 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 74.92.136.149 From: "Peter Ara Guekguezian" <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB Islam? X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=300122342; y=WgiYwkNUfm4dsvnBUX7m3gsMTB5voj1zAnscjRvgVohhz0p2a8DCNA X-Yahoo-Profile: kode_conlangs X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:53 -0000 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Michael O'Shaughnessy <coefficient@...> > wrote: > > > I'm new to IB, having just recently found it > > through various browsings on > > wikipedia, and one thing that disappointed me > > was a lack of information on > > the spread of Islam through Europe in the IB > > timeline, > > It hasn't been found to be of particular interest > as of yet. We don't "fill in the blanks" just > because there are perceived blanks to be filled. > > Probably the best sources on Islam in Europe are > found in articles and News items pertaining to > Sanjak. Well, there is a rather *huge* difference between *here* and *there*: Persia was never Islamicized. I'm not sure how this will affect the Sunni/Shi`a split (started 660 CE *here*), but it will deprive Islam of its Persian influence. Some other differences: the Crusades lasted until the 15th or 16th century *there*; much of North Africa is currently under European control *there*; in Southeast Asia, only Aceh (northwest Sumatra) is Islamic; the Islamic presence in Central Asia is also less *there* than *here*; Palestine has been continuously Jewish, so there is nothing comparable to the Arab-Israeli conflict; in general, there is less of the malaise in the Islamic world *there* that led to the present widespread influence of radical Wahhabiism *here*. In fact, only Sanjak, Turkey, Iraaq, and Saudi Arabia (which does not include the Hijaaz, unlike *here*) are under the influence of radical Islam. Because of the (relative) absence of Islam in Persia, Central and Southeast Asia, there are probably a good deal fewer Muslims in IB than there are *here*. This is compounded by the fact that IB is less populous than *here*. My guess is that only about 10%-15% of IB is Muslim, as opposed to about 20% *here*. And, of course, there are the Scots of Egypt. Don't forget them! > > though there were > > some hints as to Islamic evangelism into > > Northern Europe, the oldest mosques > > in Europe having been found in Kemr. That said, > > where are the source documents on this? > > The source document for the latter statements is > here: http://ib.frath.net/w/Dumnonia > > Padraic > I definitely dig that.
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 22:53:00 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27943;u=;t=1175179949;m=371125091;s=1126946264;
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From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 23:08:34 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27945;u=;t=1175179986;m=176209542;s=3131200844;
From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 23:15:53 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27946;u=;t=1175179986;m=1825945101;s=3131200844;
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 23:16:09 2007 Return-Path: <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Received: (qmail 5239 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2007 06:16:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.72) by m31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2007 06:16:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n32c.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.213) by mta14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2007 06:16:08 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n32.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.1] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.77] by t1.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:55 -0000 X-Sender: kode_conlangs@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 87645 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 19:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.68) by m27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2007 19:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24a.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.234) by mta11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 19:06:42 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.217] by n24.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 19:05:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.6] by t2.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 19:05:52 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.82] by t6.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 19:05:52 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:05:52 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <eueeag+pnmo@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070319150425.82213.qmail@web52006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-system X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.234 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 74.92.136.149 From: "Peter Ara Guekguezian" <kode_conlangs@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Wishing to join the enterprise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=300122342; y=lD_eTxqM-8lTrJG_nJ7SwqYiBDhKgk3qztP6otWlHEfwSw2sqSMvcQ X-Yahoo-Profile: kode_conlangs X-eGroups-Approved-By: bo_arthur <bo_arthur@yahoo.com> via web; 29 Mar 2007 05:48:54 -0000 --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Peter Ara Guekguezian > <kode_conlangs@...> wrote: > > > I ran across IB several months ago, probably > > from a link on the ZBB. > > I really loved what I saw, but put it on the > > backburner for the time being. > > Welcome back! Thanks! I wish I had joined sooner, but, oh well--I'm here now! > > Last month or so, I rekindled my interest in > > IB, and the more I > > read, the deeper I fall in love with it. > > Thank you! All those of us who have been working > on IB for a while are here for the same reason. > > > My favorite areas are the > > languages, the maps, and the history, but the > > culture, religion, > > flag/emblem and famous personality parts of IB > > are intriguing as well. > > I'm the principal person in the religious aspect > of IB, concentrating on the Catholic Church and > several smaller religious movements. As I'm sure > you're aware, there are several currents > indigenous to IB that don't exist *here*. Your > input (as a question asker) would certainly be > welcome and is solicited. If at some point you > feel like contributing, then that would be > welcome as well. Cool! I'll definitely have to read more... > > I would like to focus on North America and the > > Middle East, but am > > glad to help with any region. I find Oregon, > > Montrei, and the NAL- > > SLC among the most appealing countries, but the > > RTC, Armorica, the > > FK, Lebanon, Judaea, Ethiopia and Japan are > > also up there IMO. > > The NAL has been one of our more interesting > endeavours. It started out as a mere suggestion, > and has ended up becoming one of our better > explored places. > > There are a lot of us involved in the NAL (I'm > interested mostly in the transportation systems > and in the provinces of Ter Mair and Virginia and > the non-provincial mass known as the > Unincorporated Territory). The NAL is definitely a Good Thing. I'm most interested in the Native parts of the NAL, myself. BTW, I noticed from The List that you're around Ter Mair/Virginia IRL. I'm in Annapolis for college. > > Of course, the project as a whole is just so > > staggering awesome that I > > can't help but offer my mind as a sacrifice to > > build up this edifice. > > If you haven't yet, please visit www.bethisad.com > -- there are some things there you should read > that describe our overall philosophy. In > addition, on the wiki there is a section called > "How It All Works" which contains some of the > above as well as some other material of interest. > For historical perspective, you might be > interested in www.bethisad.com/list.htm -- the > list of our offical and declared participants. > Looks like you'll be enrolled there before too > long! I read it, and I think I could fit in here. I also read the transcript of "the June Revolt", which is rather sobering for an excited prospective member... > > *wipes drool off floor* > > > > Okay, so I'm really psyched. As far as a > > potential personal > > contribution goes, I've been thinking of > > developing the medieval > > Armenian kingdom of Cilicia > > Cool. Very little of IB before the 20th century > has been explored. So this is charting some > unknown waters. The two areas I'd like to start to find out about are 1) the rise of Islam (7th-8th centuries) and 2) the Crusades (12th-15th~16th centuries). I think these periods have the most bearing on the eventual makeup of the modern Middle East *there*, both linguistically and religiously. I'm really curious about what happens to the native Christian presence there. > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilicia ; > > the page kinda sucks, but it has some links). I > > figure Cilicia would > > offer itself to the Crusaders as a base for > > their operations in the > > Levant. I understand that the Crusades > > apparently are longer *there* > > than *here*. Cilicia could play a role in that, > > as well as in the > > eventual end of the Crusades. After the ruling > > class gets heavily > > Europeanized/Catholicized, the Armenian > > peasants and apostolic > > clergy would chafe under their presence, and > > eventually rebel. If > > the Armenians allied with the Judaeans, the > > Lebanese Druze, and > > maybe the Assyrians, the 'Alawites, and some > > other assorted Arabs, > > they could probably kick out the Crusaders > > around maybe the 15th > > centuries. Of course, they would fall to > > squabbling, and the > > Ottomans would extend their empire over them. > > You'll want to put yourself in contact with Steg > and the others who have been working on the > middle East. I saw Steg's & Pedro's replies (Hi guys!), and would be glad to work with them. I'd like to think that Cilicia and perhaps an expanded Levantine Alliance could fit in with what they're thinking, but we'll have to explore it a lot further. > > Cilicia would be in the same position as > > Lebanon and Judaea as > > regards relation with the Empire. As Armenian > > nationalism would have > > played a role in kicking out the Crusaders and > > establishing a (short- > > lived) state, they would probably succeed in > > resisting Turkification > > of their area. After the First Great War, > > they'd probably try to > > carve up some of Turkey; when the Turks respond > > with their ultimatum > > against the Armenians and Kurds (and presumably > > other such > > minorities in the vicinity), many Armenians > > would go southwest to > > Cilicia, as well as those going east to > > (previously Russian > > controlled?) Armenia. There would probably > > exist (and have existed) > > some tension between Cilician Armenians who > > were oriented toward the > > Levant and Caucasian-ward Armenians who were > > oriented more toward > > Persia and Russia. There could be both a > > language and a religious > > split there. Eastern Armenia could become > > SNOR-ist, while Cilicia > > would be in line with Judaea and Lebanon (and > > perhaps Syria and/or > > Kurdistan). > > > > I've got more ideas, but I'll wait for a little > > feedback before I post more. > > Fine. We're going on ten years now, and there's a > lot of stuff to learn (and sometimes relearn, as > we've found it's very easy to forget what's > factual and what isn't). > > > BTW, I'm an alright conlanger, not as good as > > conculturing, but excelling in maps. > > We can never have too many maps. There are a > couple atlases floating around, one resides at > bethisad.com, the other can be linked from there. > There are other maps on the wiki, and even a few > hard copy maps to be found. I actually meant "not as good *at* conculturing", BTW. I'm not really an impartial judge about my skill at conlanging, but there are a few people here from the ZBB or CBB (Tom H Chappeli, Sectori, Dan Jones/Dewrad) who could probably evaluate what I've posted there. > > Like I said above, I'd really > > love to commit to this project, even if only as > > a question asker at first. > > Take your time and ease in to it! Discussions > take place both here and on the wiki; and while > we've been a bit quiet of late, such lulls are > generally interspersed with periods of great > activity and creativity. > > Padraic I'll try to familiarize myself as much as possible with the IB world before I really get into working with you guys. ALSO: my website (www.soapboxindustries.com) has a lot of space available on it. While (trying to) browse BoArthur's IB site, I found that he had exceeded his transfer limit. Since I don't have much traffic on my site, I figure I'll have room to let. If anyone's interested in this space (which I've got all nice and paid for, BTW!), talk to me. I might be able to create a subdomain for you, or else I'll just give you access to the site administration. I don't have much uploaded onto there anyway, and everything that's already up is also saved on my hard drive. -kodé
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 23:16:44 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27948;u=;t=1175179949;m=371125091;s=1126946264;
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 23:21:03 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27949;u=;t=1175179950;m=371125091;s=1126946264;
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 23:25:54 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27950;u=;t=1175179950;m=176209542;s=3131200844;
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 23:31:44 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27951;u=;t=1175179950;m=176209542;s=3131200844;
From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 23:31:52 2007 Return-Path: <Montrei13@gmail.com> X-Sender: Montrei13@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80087 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2007 06:31:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.71) by m41a.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2007 06:31:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (69.147.64.186) by mta13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2007 06:31:25 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.218] by n5.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 06:15:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.5] by t3.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 06:15:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.85] by t5.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Mar 2007 06:15:05 -0000 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 06:15:04 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <euflh8+u213@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <etig0a+p75s@eGroups.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 69.147.64.186 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 71.149.244.162 From: "doobieous" <Montrei13@gmail.com> Subject: Re: IB: Wishing to join the enterprise X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=276444171; y=cWOx_usj4XGMJi8UZ_s3VP4QZcQ6SlYvBO-pVpzID7BV6JAb X-Yahoo-Profile: doobieous --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ara Guekguezian" <kode_conlangs@...> wrote: > > I ran across IB several months ago, probably from a link on the ZBB. > I really loved what I saw, but put it on the backburner for the time > being. > Well, welcome to our little alternate universe on the internets :) > Last month or so, I rekindled my interest in IB, and the more I > read, the deeper I fall in love with it. My favorite areas are the > languages, the maps, and the history, but the culture, religion, > flag/emblem and famous personality parts of IB are intriguing as > well. I myself am more interested in culture than politics or personalities, which is why I haven't got scads of information on those topics for AC and Montrei. > > I would like to focus on North America and the Middle East, but am > glad to help with any region. I find Oregon, Montrei, and the NAL- > SLC among the most appealing countries, but the RTC, Armorica, the > FK, Lebanon, Judaea, Ethiopia and Japan are also up there IMO. Of > course, the project as a whole is just so staggering awesome that I > can't help but offer my mind as a sacrifice to build up this edifice. > Only a few of us work on western North America. It seems that that region is just not as popular as the NAL or Europe. I am the caretaker of Montrei and AC. There's a LOT of territory I watch over, but fortunately it's not all inhabited (just like here, there's a lot of empty space). If you have interest in parts of AC or even Montrei, run them by me and I'll let you know if they work or not. AC resolved not too long ago a Taleban like rebel group in the region they called Deseret (here's Utah region) > > I've got more ideas, but I'll wait for a little feedback before I > post more. BTW, I'm an alright conlanger, not as good as > conculturing, but excelling in maps. Like I said above, I'd really > love to commit to this project, even if only as a question asker at > first. > Well, I am an OK conlanger too. I like conculturing a lot though, but I'm so wishy washy on conlanging that I've had to really tighten the screws and not mess with Montreiano too much (i've been working on some alterations... nothing too drastic though).
From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 23:38:39 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27953;u=;t=1175179950;m=1825945101;s=3131200844;
From Montrei13@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 23:49:33 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27954;u=;t=1175179950;m=1825945101;s=3131200844;
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 23:54:56 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27955;u=;t=1175179950;m=371125091;s=1126946264;
From kode_conlangs@yahoo.com Thu Mar 29 00:07:17 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27956;u=;t=1175179950;m=176209542;s=3131200844;
From Montrei13@gmail.com Thu Mar 29 00:17:32 2007 X-Deleted-Message: yes X-Deletion-Info: i=27957;u=;t=1175179950;m=1825945101;s=3131200844;
From italocarune@yahoo.com Thu Mar 29 00:18:31 2007 Return-Path: <italocarune@yahoo.com> X-Sender: italocarune@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 77988 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2007 07:01:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m51.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Mar 2007 07:01:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27b.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com) (209.131.38.244) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2007 07:01:03 -0000 Received: from [216.252.122.219] by n27.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Received: from [209.73.164.83] by t4.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.81] by t7.bullet.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2007 23:28:56 -0000 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:28:54 -0000 To: conculture@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <euetnm+9mni@eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20070328134101.2869.qmail@web52012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-compose X-Originating-IP: 209.131.38.244 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:6:0:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 24.91.51.85 From: "italocarune" <italocarune@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: IB: Italy (and the Euro-consortium in space) (w/News report) X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=266994233; y=NMXcXiUOrafLPSbjayrqbENqf_r05nROE0nx5wLx9kIjr2az9kk X-Yahoo-Profile: italocarune --- In conculture@yahoogroups.com, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote: > > --- Peltonen Petri <petri.peltonen@...> wrote: > > > > "Florence Observer, 27 Mar., 2007 > > > > Wouldn't it be Osservatore Fiorentino or some > > such, more likely than > > Florence Observer. :) > > Probably in Fierenze. The usual practice > concerning foreign news agency names is this: > when cited in the h